The government at work, keeping us safe... or something...

[Universe Prince]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/13/nyregion/13detain.html

In April, Mr. [Hiu Lui] Ng began complaining of excruciating back pain. By mid-July, he could no longer walk or stand. And last Wednesday, two days after his 34th birthday, he died in the custody of Immigration and Customs Enforcement in a Rhode Island hospital, his spine fractured and his body riddled with cancer that had gone undiagnosed and untreated for months. [...] In federal court affidavits, Mr. Ng's lawyers contend that when he complained of severe pain that did not respond to analgesics, and grew too weak to walk or even stand to call his family from a detention pay phone, officials accused him of faking his condition. They denied him a wheelchair and refused pleas for an independent medical evaluation. [...] Immigration and detention officials would not discuss the case, saying the matter was under internal investigation. But in response to a relative of Mr. Ng's who had begged that he be checked for a spinal injury or fractures, the Wyatt detention center's director of nursing, Ben Candelaria, replied in a July 16 e-mail message that Mr. Ng was receiving appropriate care for "chronic back pain." He added, "We treat each and every detainee in our custody with the same high level of quality, professional care possible." Officials have given no explanation why they took Mr. Ng to Hartford and back on the same day. But the lawyers say the grueling July 30 trip appeared to be an effort to prove that Mr. Ng was faking illness, and possibly to thwart the habeas corpus petition they had filed in Rhode Island the day before, seeking his release for medical treatment. The federal judge who heard that petition on July 31 did not make a ruling, but in an unusual move insisted that Mr. Ng get the care he needed. On Aug. 1, Mr. Ng was taken to a hospital, where doctors found he had terminal cancer and a fractured spine. He died five days later. [...] But his condition continued to deteriorate. Once a robust man who stood nearly six feet and weighed 200 pounds, his relatives said, Mr. Ng looked like a shrunken and jaundiced 80-year-old. "He said, 'I told the nursing department, I'm in pain, but they don't believe me,' " his sister recalled. " 'They tell me, stop faking.' " Soon, according to court papers, he had to rely on other detainees to help him reach the toilet, bring him food and call his family; he no longer received painkillers, because he could not stand in line to collect them. On July 26, Andy Wong, a lawyer associated with Mr. Cox, came to see the detainee, but had to leave without talking to him, he said, because Mr. Ng was too weak to walk to the visiting area, and a wheelchair was denied.

I'm hoping I don't have to say why this is a bad thing. It should be pretty obvious.

[fatman]

This kind of thing isn't exactly uncommon in a lot of state prisons either.  Here in WA there was a man who had to have his manhood amputated because of some kind of infection that the prison either wouldn't treat or wouldn't diagnose.

Now he's suing.  Imagine that.

[Universe Prince]

Mind, you, I'm not arguing that prisoners should be pampered, but that sort of thing simply should not happen. I'd argue that this is a likely a result of the attitude that the goal of law enforcement is to catch the bad guys rather than to protect people's rights.

[sirs]

I'm not sure why those goals are apparently mutually exclusive.  Both those goals are of equal importance, since the former often affects the latter

[fatman]

I think that my problem is what happens after they're captured and the lack of focus in getting the offenders some kind of job skills so that when they're released they can at least try something.  Most people aren't going to hire a convicted felon with no job skills, but one with some skills might at least get a foot in the door.

[Stray Pooch]

He died five days later.

[...]

But his condition continued to deteriorate.

Just another example of the danger of cut and paste.

But seriously this is something that goes with a situation we have in our town.

We have a free clinic here.  It is designed, as you might guess, to give aid to tose wo have no insurance or means.  It was just recently decided by the directors of the clinic that medical care in that facility will no longer be given to people without proof of legal residency.  The board is aware of about 60 people who currently get such aid.  The number of people who might potentially have used the service is hard to say.

The reason they made this decision is that the local politicians have been pressuring them to stop treatment or lose funding.  The board reluctantly concluded that it is better to help some than help none, so they acquiesced. 

This bothers me for a simple, fundamental reason.  NOBODY should be denied medical care.  Deny welfare, deny section 8 housing, food stamps or job placement services.  Deny rental opportunities or bank accounts.  ABSOLUTELY deny the vote.  But don't deny medical care - at least not for reasons of residency.  There are some who call the current wave of immigration a passive invasion.  I happen to agree with them.  So what?  Even in wartime, we give medical aid to our wounded enemies.  Medical care is different from all other issues because it is the one thing which, when denied, can lead to irreversible damage.  The case described in this thread is a perfect and tragic example of this.

Heads should role on this one.

[Plane]

The answer is more education , if we were all doctors of medicine we could treat esch other gratis or at least very cheaply.

[fatman]

He died five days later.

[...]

But his condition continued to deteriorate.

Just another example of the danger of cut and paste.

But seriously this is something that goes with a situation we have in our town.

We have a free clinic here.  It is designed, as you might guess, to give aid to tose wo have no insurance or means.  It was just recently decided by the directors of the clinic that medical care in that facility will no longer be given to people without proof of legal residency.  The board is aware of about 60 people who currently get such aid.  The number of people who might potentially have used the service is hard to say.

The reason they made this decision is that the local politicians have been pressuring them to stop treatment or lose funding.  The board reluctantly concluded that it is better to help some than help none, so they acquiesced. 

This bothers me for a simple, fundamental reason.  NOBODY should be denied medical care.  Deny welfare, deny section 8 housing, food stamps or job placement services.  Deny rental opportunities or bank accounts.  ABSOLUTELY deny the vote.  But don't deny medical care - at least not for reasons of residency.  There are some who call the current wave of immigration a passive invasion.  I happen to agree with them.  So what?  Even in wartime, we give medical aid to our wounded enemies.  Medical care is different from all other issues because it is the one thing which, when denied, can lead to irreversible damage.  The case described in this thread is a perfect and tragic example of this.

Heads should role on this one.

I'm in total agreement Plane.  Another problem with denying health care to illegal immigrants is that it may allow the spread of contagious disease, such as TB, whooping cough, etc.  It seems to me that it would not only be smarter, but cheaper in the long run, to provide the care.

[BT]

Is free health care a right of the people? Is it an intrinsic human right?

Is it enumerated in the constitution or is it a part of the living breathing document?

And as the needs of society change, do the rights of the people change also? or do they simply expand?

And does this expansion of rights also lead to the compromising of other rights. In other words does the right to be protected, lead to no knock warrants and the potential abuse of same?

[Knutey]

>And does this expansion of rights also lead to the compromising of other rights. In other words does the right to be protected, lead to no knock warrants and the potential abuse of same?<
Only in a RW fascist Repud regime like we now have.

[BT]

Then if Obama is elected we will have nothing to worry about.

Of course data mining, roaming wiretaps and rendition all came out of the last dem administration.

So maybe not.

[Stray Pooch]

I'm in total agreement Plane. 

[/quote]

I'm sure that Plane is happy you agree with me, fatman.  I be da Pooch.

I guess I'd better start posting more often.  I'm starting to blend in too much.

[fatman]

My bad Pooch, right now we're working 65-80 hours a week and it's starting to catch up to me.  I can't complain about the money though, especially after being on layoff the past few months.

[Plane]

My bad Pooch, right now we're working 65-80 hours a week and it's starting to catch up to me.  I can't complain about the money though, especially after being on layoff the past few months.

Be carefull , overworked welders suffer from burnout.