The value of suffering

[Xavier_Onassis]

[

I find a similarity between the Atheist Pig and the character of Brian the family dog in the cartoon Family Guy.

[sirs]

Suffering as a result of circumstances is different than suffering for the sake of suffering

[kimba1]

i see it as a form of accepting things we mostly have no control in. she did accept their lot. In places of high poverty I can`t see avoiding suffering that obtainable. not saying thier should be no effort to stop the cause but in the time being accepting it would be the course of action.

[Xavier_Onassis]

It is one thing to accept what we cannot change, and another to deliberately  torture one's body to  achieve a state of bliss. Mother Teresa's thing was that she too money that people donated to her patients and used it to start other missions, rather than on pain pills to alleviate the suffering of her patients, because she felt that their suffering was noble.

[Plane]

The subject of this post is "the value of suffering", because Mother Teresa said that suffering per se had value and was appreciated by God.
I note that no one has seen fit to agree with Mother Teresa about this.
There is a long tradition in several religions regarding suffering as a manner of achieving enlightenment.
I think suffering sucks and should be avoided. Buddha tried suffering in the Forest of Trials

http://manganites.com/buddha/28-in-the-forest-of-trials

Ok....

It is totally impossible to avoid suffering, everyone gets some , so it is not needed to ever cause suffering or accept extra suffering above the unavoidable.

But suffering serves maturity.

The generous give till it hurts , less is not generous so much .

The patient accept frustration rather then harm the greater goal.

The wise are wise by intelligence plus sad experience, without the experience is the intelligence developed?

It is foolish to refuse to accept the discomfort of exercise , it is wrong to avoid a pain that should be shared , it is stingy to force someone else to pay your share, it is stunting to study nothing because less educational diversion is more pleasant.


I can't credit the possibility of a human being that knows no suffering, but if such a person can be found will we find a well rounded mature and respect worthy person?

[Xavier_Onassis]

Discomfort and labor are not things I consider to be suffering.
The kind of suffering I am talking about is deliberate self-torture:self- flogging with metal whips, sitting on a bed of nails, the sort of things that Buddha saw and practiced in the Forest of Trials. See the link to the Life of Buddha manga I posted.

I hate to mow the yard, but if I postpone it too long it becomes harder and the yard looks worse.

[Plane]

Discomfort and labor are not things I consider to be suffering.
The kind of suffering I am talking about is deliberate self-torture:self- flogging with metal whips, sitting on a bed of nails, the sort of things that Buddha saw and practiced in the Forest of Trials. See the link to the Life of Buddha manga I posted.

I hate to mow the yard, but if I postpone it too long it becomes harder and the yard looks worse.

Perhaps Mother Teresa would agree with you.

Did she advocate maximizing suffering for the sake of the suffering itself , or does that exaggerate her position?

[kimba1]

I just doubt painpills would be of help at the amount of people we're dealing with. But i just thought of this if she actually gave those pills she may lose a good chuck of donations. It's not impossible this would be a turn off.

[Xavier_Onassis]

I don't think pain pills (by which I mean aspirin or ibuprofen) work on all classes of human beings.
Mother Teresa claimed that the suffering of theses people was something that God appreciates and perhaps would reward them for enduring.

I disagree that a loving god would take that attitude.

^The Jehovah character in the Bible is not a loving god all that often: Jehovah was a jerk in the way he treated poor Job, for example.

[sirs]

A loving God allows people to make choices.  That's the point....to chose to follow God, or not.  An oppressive God is the one that would coddle you and try to prevent you from doing things that could harm you.  That's not love...that's control

[Xavier_Onassis]

Yeah, sure, sirs knows God personally. I am sure you and God talk this over frequently.
Ask God why the hell he thought up giving us the choice to die of malaria or ebola as a way of expressing his love.

Ebola is often spread when a person hugs a dying family member. You show affection, and it turns out to be a death sentence. But, see, God gave you a CHOICE of showing affection.

[sirs]

YES, I DO.  God does what he does for a purpose far greater than your puny little human brain can deal with

[kimba1]

That is the the time time ive ever that definition of a oppresive god. Coddling?.? Ironically i know many conservative families who does this with thier kids. To such a degree one kid (15 yrs old)had to use the lotion meant for toddlers to handle shots for teeth extractions. He so sensitive he almost woke up before it was done and was in misery for a few days.

I laughed when i had it done.

[sirs]

Exactly Kimba......much like a Government, that wishes to "take care" of its "children", and perhaps even with initially good intentions, will blanket their children in a cocoon of security.  And as that blanket gets thicker ("in the name of security, of course), it becomes more and more oppressive

The Christian God is a loving God.  To appreciate love, he allows hatred.  To appreciate success, he allows failure.  To appreciate life, he allows suffering.  I'm not here to explain God to anyone.  He is what he is.  You can believe he is a merciful loving God, or you can choose not to, like xo.  That's everyone's choice.  But to make the argument that he's not a "loving God", because he allows tragedy & heartbreak, completely misses the point of what a loving God is, and the freedom we have to chose that paths we do, which in turn allows us to greater appreciate all there is to life, than if we were coddled to a point that we never could

[kimba1]

but the government does what it does from reactions unlike god. when I came to this country we had homeless bodies in the streets every once in awhile. eventually it finally got stopped. we used to live with the term buyer beware. now we got things that rarely breaks. in matters of the government we really should treat it as a work in progress that needs tweeking.