Author Topic: Uh oh....NOT good. Bhutto Assasinated  (Read 22253 times)

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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Uh oh....NOT good. Bhutto Assasinated
« Reply #45 on: December 28, 2007, 09:53:45 AM »
I suppose that whether Bhutto would have managed to fulfill the goals of the US State Dept. as a valid loyal opposition in Pakistan depends on what those goals were. The main goal I imagine is to keep the Paki fundies in line and out of Afghanistan, and to not start a war with India. Secondary goals would be a source for cheap labor, whatever minerals Pakistan might export, and support for US policies in the Muslim world.

A corruptible politician is Washington's favorite kind, and one with popular support that is also easily bribed is best of all.
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Richpo64

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Re: Uh oh....NOT good. Bhutto Assasinated
« Reply #46 on: December 28, 2007, 10:00:05 AM »
>>A corruptible politician is Washington's favorite kind, and one with popular support that is also easily bribed is best of all.<<

Spoken like a true patriot.

Brassmask

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Re: Uh oh....NOT good. Bhutto Assasinated
« Reply #47 on: December 28, 2007, 10:09:20 AM »
How is this NOT a political issue??  The political ramifications are ENORMOUS, for not just the Middle East, but globally, as demonstrated in a majority of the posts already presented.  Did I steal your thunder?  Were you salivating at the idea of proposing how Bush was secretly in contact with Musharaff, and likely helped to organize this tragic event??      ::)

You couldn't wait to turn the discussion from the impact, the effects to an opportunity to poke those you don't like or often disagree with in the metaphorical eye.  You're really sick.

No Brass, sick are those who blame Bush for everything, including the common cold, such as Global Warming, Militant Islam, Poverty, Homelessness, Unemployment, etc.  Sick is believing that Bush and the "neocons" were really behind 911.  Sick would be the idea that the government brought down the WTC.  Sick would be pushing the idea of no jet hitting the Pentagon.  Sick would be those who *gasp* claim religion is some delusional affliction, which begs the obvious need for treatment and "saving"

The title of the thread made it clear what my intentions for this topic were to go, which for the vast majority of posts, have provided just that.  It's a tragedy with HUGE political ramifications.  My small follow-up response was simply a placing down a timer as to when one of the whacked out foaming at the mouth leftists would start in that this was some Bush facilitated neo-con hit job.  Everyone has been adding to the debate, while you seem to be the only one dragging it down to gutter level with this tangent.  I hope it's at least making you feel better



See.  You're just hacking on me.


_JS

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Re: Uh oh....NOT good. Bhutto Assasinated
« Reply #48 on: December 28, 2007, 11:16:56 AM »
The problem I have, and I also liked Bhutto as well, is this - what the hell business was it of ours? We have never been good at understanding the internal wranglings of other nations.

It all leads back to imperial projection of power in Southwest Asia, but to what ends?
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
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Michael Tee

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Re: Uh oh....NOT good. Bhutto Assasinated
« Reply #49 on: December 28, 2007, 11:26:28 AM »
<<It all leads back to imperial projection of power in Southwest Asia, but to what ends?>>

Different ends.  One truly in Amerikkka's interests (securing energy in the face of a looming supply crisis) and one not - - securing Amerikkka against Muslim anger stoked by its ongoing support of Israel. 

Then you have secondary goals related to great-power prestige.  A country like Amerikkka cannot be slapped across the face with impunity, either in Manhattan or Baghdad, because a large part of Amerikkka's strength resides in the ability to intimidate smaller, weaker nations.  If they are seen to be impotent punks, the weapon of intimidation is gone, and the only recourse is actual war, a burden which the U.S. cannot bear much longer.  Constant wars from Vietnam to date continue to erode the Treasury and inevitably lead to a devalued currency.  They NEED a victory desperately, but the paradox is, the longer they have to fight for it against such clearly weaker enemies, the less impressive it ultimately seems.

Richpo64

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Re: Uh oh....NOT good. Bhutto Assasinated
« Reply #50 on: December 28, 2007, 11:29:35 AM »
>>The problem I have, and I also liked Bhutto as well, is this - what the hell business was it of ours?<<

We certainly should make it our business to ensure that a nation which possesses nuclear weapons does not fall into the bloody hands of jihadist elements of Islam. Not to do so would be monumentally stupid.

sirs

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Re: Uh oh....NOT good. Bhutto Assasinated
« Reply #51 on: December 28, 2007, 11:33:50 AM »
You couldn't wait to turn the discussion from the impact, the effects to an opportunity to poke those you don't like or often disagree with in the metaphorical eye.  You're really sick.

No Brass, sick are those who blame Bush for everything, including the common cold, such as Global Warming, Militant Islam, Poverty, Homelessness, Unemployment, etc.  Sick is believing that Bush and the "neocons" were really behind 911.  Sick would be the idea that the government brought down the WTC.  Sick would be pushing the idea of no jet hitting the Pentagon.  Sick would be those who *gasp* claim religion is some delusional affliction, which begs the obvious need for treatment and "saving"

The title of the thread made it clear what my intentions for this topic were to go, which for the vast majority of posts, have provided just that.  It's a tragedy with HUGE political ramifications.  My small follow-up response was simply a placing down a timer as to when one of the whacked out foaming at the mouth leftists would start in that this was some Bush facilitated neo-con hit job.  Everyone has been adding to the debate, while you seem to be the only one dragging it down to gutter level with this tangent.  I hope it's at least making you feel better

See.  You're just hacking on me.

See, you're just perpetuating the same irrelevent dren.  Nothing to do with the topic, and everything to do with poor misunderstood Brass.  Last time I checked, you're the one that initiated this current aimless tangent, so you can stop trying to play the victim card
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Richpo64

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Re: Uh oh....NOT good. Bhutto Assasinated
« Reply #52 on: December 28, 2007, 11:38:36 AM »
Pak govt reveals how Benazir was killed

Friday December 28, 08:26 PM
http://in.news.yahoo.com/071228/211/6oyrl.html

New Delhi: Mystery shrouds the death of former Pakistan prime minister Benazir Bhutto. In an explosive revelation, Pakistan's Interior Minister Hamid Nawaz on Friday said that Bhutto did not die of bullet wounds.

Nawaz said that Bhutto died from a head injury. At least seven doctors from the Rawalpindi General Hospital ? where the leader was rushed immediately after the attack ? say there were no bullet marks on Bhutto's body.

The doctors have submitted a report to the Pakistan government in which they say that no post-mortem was performed on Bhutto?s body and they had not received any instructions to perform one.

?The report says she had head injuries ? an irregular patch ? and the X-ray doesn?t show any bullet in the head. So it was probably the shrapnel or any other thing has struck her in her said. That damaged her brain, causing it to ooze and her death. The report categorically ssyas there?s no wound other than that,? Nawaz told a Pakistani news channel.

Government sources say there will be an investigation to determine why no autopsy was conducted.
According to agency reports doctors at the Rawalpindi General Hospital tried desperately for 41 minutes to revive former prime minister Bhutto after she was shot but failed in their efforts.

Bhutto was declared dead 41 minutes after she was brought the hospital's emergency department at 1735 hrs (local time) (1805 hrs IST) with open wounds on her left temporal bone from which "brain matter was exuding", the report said.
It said Bhutto was not breathing at the time and her pulse and blood pressure "were not recordable".
IANS adds: According to the report, "immediate resuscitation (process) was started" and she was taken to the operation theatre where she was attended by a team of doctors headed by Musaddiq Khan, principal of the Rawalpindi Medical College, Dawn reported Friday.
"Left antrolateral thoracotomy for open cardiac massage was performed," the hospital report said, adding: "In spite of all the possible measures she could not be revived and (was) declared dead at 1816 hrs IST (6.16 p.m.)."
An autopsy was not carried out at the hospital "because the district administration and police had not requested the hospital authorities (for this)", the report said.
Bhutto was shot not far from where Pakistan's first prime minister Liaquat Ali Khan was killed by an assassin's bullet on Oct 16, 1951.

_JS

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Re: Uh oh....NOT good. Bhutto Assasinated
« Reply #53 on: December 28, 2007, 11:52:16 AM »
<<It all leads back to imperial projection of power in Southwest Asia, but to what ends?>>

Different ends.  One truly in Amerikkka's interests (securing energy in the face of a looming supply crisis) and one not - - securing Amerikkka against Muslim anger stoked by its ongoing support of Israel. 

Then you have secondary goals related to great-power prestige.  A country like Amerikkka cannot be slapped across the face with impunity, either in Manhattan or Baghdad, because a large part of Amerikkka's strength resides in the ability to intimidate smaller, weaker nations.  If they are seen to be impotent punks, the weapon of intimidation is gone, and the only recourse is actual war, a burden which the U.S. cannot bear much longer.  Constant wars from Vietnam to date continue to erode the Treasury and inevitably lead to a devalued currency.  They NEED a victory desperately, but the paradox is, the longer they have to fight for it against such clearly weaker enemies, the less impressive it ultimately seems.

I think that much of what you say is accurate.

It was easier during the Cold War as imperialism could always be sold as a part of a false dichotomy between the "great good" versus the "great evil." The Soviets played the same game, actually they sold their empire as anti-imperialism - a crafty twist. We sold our empire as democratic and good, when in reality we were generally far from either one.

Yet today it is a much more difficult sell. With the exception of Israel, whom people seem to be willing to give carte blanche, the other nations of the world aren't as willing to chip in for right-wing death squads in Latin America or rigging elections in Africa and Asia. They may not stop us from doing it, yet, but as you imply - we are losing that shiny patina we once had.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

hnumpah

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Re: Uh oh....NOT good. Bhutto Assasinated
« Reply #54 on: December 28, 2007, 01:15:15 PM »
Quote
Pak govt reveals how Benazir was killed


From what I understand now, from CNN, they are saying she was neither shot nor hit by shrapnel, but bumped her head ducking back into her car and fractured her skull.

Kinda like the Bush administration, the story keeps changing...
"I love WikiLeaks." - Donald Trump, October 2016

sirs

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Re: Uh oh....NOT good. Bhutto Assasinated
« Reply #55 on: December 28, 2007, 01:20:44 PM »
Quote
Pak govt reveals how Benazir was killed


From what I understand now, from CNN, they are saying she was neither shot nor hit by shrapnel, but bumped her head ducking back into her car and fractured her skull.  Kinda like the Bush administration, the story keeps changing...

Which of course, that bogus Bush bashing accusation has been demonstrated to be a falsehood as well.  More on topic, I heard on the radio this AM, that she may have died from a cardiac arrest.  They weren't deying she was shot or hit from shrapnel, only that she may have not died from such.  That the actual COD may have indeed been a cardiac arrest, or the body going into hypovolemic shock from the trauma of .... whatever. 

This is still alot of speculation, and apparently there will be no autopsy for any scientific determination as to her COD.  Is this gonna be JFK all over again?
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Richpo64

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Re: Uh oh....NOT good. Bhutto Assasinated
« Reply #56 on: December 28, 2007, 01:29:09 PM »
>>This is still alot of speculation...<<

She's already in the ground, so we may never really know. Well, other than it's Bush's fault of course.

hnumpah

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Re: Uh oh....NOT good. Bhutto Assasinated
« Reply #57 on: December 28, 2007, 01:46:09 PM »
Quote
Which of course, that bogus Bush bashing accusation has been demonstrated to be a falsehood as well.

Really? Any of these sound familiar:

WMD's...

Ties to Al Qaeda...

Mobile chemical weapons factory...

Shouldn't take more than six months...

Oil revenues will pay for the rebuilding...

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED...

The insurgency is in its last throes...

We need a surge...
"I love WikiLeaks." - Donald Trump, October 2016

_JS

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Re: Uh oh....NOT good. Bhutto Assasinated
« Reply #58 on: December 28, 2007, 01:50:52 PM »
Don't you know H, the WMD's were quietly shuttled to Syria by Russian special forces without anyone noticing. All of the thousands of tons of biological and chemical toxins were swiftly removed and are now secretly located in some caves in Syria.

Clearly you're not reading your daily fascist report!  :P
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

Lanya

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Re: Uh oh....NOT good. Bhutto Assasinated
« Reply #59 on: December 28, 2007, 02:06:58 PM »
Attendee at Bhutto rally: 'There was pandemonium'
By Saeed Shah | McClatchy Newspapers

    * Posted on Thursday, December 27, 2007

A supporter of Benazir Bhutto mourns

B.K. Bangash / AP

RAWALPINDI, Pakistan ? It was on the drive out of the downtown park that the assassin fired the fatal bullets at Benazir Bhutto.

The election rally had been long and lackluster, but on viewing the crowd gathered at the gates of Liaquat Bagh park, Bhutto turned to her deputy, Amin Fahim, and said she wanted to wave, Fahim recounted. The sunroof was opened and she stood up.

Three to five shots were fired at her, witnesses said. She was hit in the neck and slumped back in the vehicle. Blood poured from her head, and she never regained consciousness. Moments after the shooting, there was a huge explosion to the left of the vehicle.

Witnesses said that Bhutto's bodyguards pounced on the assassin, who then blew himself up, shredding those around him. Ambulance crews collected pieces of flesh from the scene. The road turned red with pools of blood.

I was standing near the rally stage, about 30 to 40 yards away from the scene of the shooting. There was pandemonium. On hearing the shots, I started running toward the scene. Then came the explosion. I ran back a bit. I didn't see the killer, and by the time I got to the gates, Bhutto's SUV was driving to a Rawalpindi hospital. She didn't have a chance.

The assassination occurred in this garrison city housing the headquarters of the Pakistan army, an institution that has always seemed opposed to Bhutto. A couple of miles away across Rawalpindi, a previous military regime had executed her father, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, Pakistan's first democratically elected prime minister, in 1979, when she was 26.

Police officers had frisked the 3,000 to 4,000 people attending Thursday's rally when they entered the park, but as the speakers from Bhutto's Pakistan People's Party droned on, the police abandoned many of their posts. As she drove out through the gate, her main protection appeared to be her own bodyguards, who wore their usual white T-shirts inscribed: "Willing to die for Benazir."

Ghulam Mustafa, a witness at the scene, said he saw bodies with missing heads and limbs.

"This happens only in Iraq, Afghanistan or Pakistan. Why not America?" he said.

Bhutto's party had complained repeatedly that the government provided her with inadequate security. She'd narrowly escaped another assassination attempt, at her homecoming parade Oct. 18 in Karachi, which left 140 dead.

At Rawalpindi General Hospital, hundreds of Bhutto supporters pushed their way in, filling the corridors, weeping and shouting. They chanted "Musharraf is a dog" and "Musharraf murderer," referring to President Pervez Musharraf.

"They killed her father. They killed her two brothers. It is a national tragedy," said Safraz Khan, a near-hysterical supporter. "She was the force to unite Pakistan."

Said a frail man in the accident and emergency ward, Saqib Hussain, tears rolling down his cheeks: "I am 70, but today I feel like an orphan."

In the streets, youths manned intersections and lit fires. They stopped traffic and smashed cars. They cut electrical wires, plunging the city into darkness. No police were visible, in the hospital or the streets. These scenes were repeated in major cities across Pakistan. In Karachi, young supporters went on a rampage, shooting randomly at passing cars.

The crowd at the hospital seemed sure that the army and Musharraf's regime ? the "establishment" ? were behind the attack. Security experts think that al Qaida and Taliban militants were the most likely perpetrators of Thursday's and October's attacks.

"GHQ (general headquarters of the army) killed her," Sardar Saleem, a former member of parliament, said at the hospital.

Fahim, the deputy leader of Bhutto's party, announced 40 days of mourning, saying simply: "We are shattered."

Bhutto embodied the Pakistan People's Party, leaving it without any other popular leaders. It was the only major liberal political force in the country, stridently opposed to religious extremism. The United States had backed Bhutto strongly as the next prime minister, a post she'd held twice before and looked likely to win again in a fair election.

Bhutto knew the risks she was taking by openly campaigning. But she'd said that she believed that most Pakistanis opposed extremism.

In a recent speech, she said: "This great land of ours is not a land of terrorists. It is not a land of militants. It is a land of laborers, who work hard to earn a living."

In her speech Thursday, she said she'd be the "leading light to tackle terrorism."

Bhutto's body was being flown to the south of the country, to her hometown of Larkana, where her father's body is buried in a giant mausoleum. Her controversial husband, Asif Zardari, and their three children flew to Rawalpindi from Dubai, where he's lived in exile. They accompanied the body to Larkana.

Liaquat Bagh, the venue for Thursday's rally, has a grim history. It was where Liaquat Ali Khan, Pakistan's first prime minister, was assassinated in 1951.

(Shah is a McClatchy special correspondent.)
McClatchy Newspapers 2007

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/23829.html
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