Author Topic: The Newtster swipes ideas from the deceased.  (Read 1880 times)

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Xavier_Onassis

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The Newtster swipes ideas from the deceased.
« on: November 23, 2011, 01:54:08 PM »
Gingrich has a reputation for being a hateful wisea$$. He is supposed to be some sort of genius for coming up with ideas.

The current "idea" about student janitors no doubt came from an excerpt from Booker T. Washington's autobiography about his first days at Hampton Institute, where he arrived with no money and was given the task of cleaning the classrooms. He claimed that the insistence of perfection by Mrs. Ruffner. the person who gave him the job was an inspiration for him to strive for perfection.

He combined this with the traditional hatred of Republicans for unions, and voila, another splendid Newtster "idea".

Booker T.'s essay is in dozens of Black Studies texts, as well as many other books intended for schoolchildren.

Here is what I found online by googling Booket T Washington essay character building:

"He took a job in the home of Mrs. Ruffner, an exacting, stern disciplinarian who demanded cleanliness and precise truth all the time. Previous boys had lasted only about a week under Mrs. Ruffner, but Booker was to devote himself for several years to perfecting his work, allowing no leisure for mischief.7 This practice was continued at Hampton Institute where he was accepted after enduring several tests of his industriousness culminating in the use of a broom in a "sweeping examination." His training served him well, and he became an assistant janitor for several years while a student at Hampton."

The Newtster is a bit of a plagiarist, perhaps
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

BT

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Re: The Newtster swipes ideas from the deceased.
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2011, 02:01:29 PM »
Did he claim it to be an original idea? or did he recognize that it would be a good way for students to have a means of earning income and instilling pride in a job well done.

Part of the problem with the image of public school education is that the focus is on providing jobs for adults rather than providing an educated youth.


sirs

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Re: The Newtster swipes ideas from the deceased.
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2011, 02:07:23 PM »
Did he claim it to be an original idea?

Good question.  Xo, did he?  Or is it because he's now the front runner, the left needs to start throwing crap against the wall, made up if necessary, to see what sticks?

 

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: The Newtster swipes ideas from the deceased.
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2011, 02:19:02 PM »
It is a very well-known story among Black people, so I think that he could have admitted that it originated with Booker T. Washington. Perhaps he read it long ago, who knows. But the story that he tells is too similar to be a coincidence. Plagiarists do not admit they have copied a story, ever. In a scholarly paper, recognition should be given by the author to the person with the original story. That is what footnotes are for.

He does not have to say "This is my original idea" to be a plagiarist.

The reality is that school janitors do a lot more than sweep the floors. They replace fluorescent tubes, they work with some pretty toxic cleaning chemicals, including Sulfuric acid for unclogging drains, they change filters in the AC, the cut the grass and do all sorts of handyman types of jobs. Many of these jobs ate too unsafe for children to do. If some kid falls off a ladder and becomes paralyzed for life, or is poisoned by dangerous chemicals, the school district is likely going to be sued for a lot larger amount than they would save by replacing the janitors with children.

Booker T. did not have to replace fluorescent tubes, he did not have to unclog a toilet with acid or lye, he did not have to use industrial strength degreasers or insecticide.

I see nothing wrong with having some schoolchildren sweep school floors and do simple cleaning jobs around the school. But no, you cannot replace all, or even most, school janitors with children.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: The Newtster swipes ideas from the deceased.
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2011, 02:22:30 PM »
Quote
He does not have to say "This is my original idea" to be a plagiarist.

Sure he does, if the claim is being made that he's "swiping ideas from the deceased".  If its a good idea, what's the problem??
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: The Newtster swipes ideas from the deceased.
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2011, 02:49:24 PM »
I'm going to have to agree with Sirs on this. He has to claim the idea as his one to becharged with plagiarism.

Otherwise it's just nitpicking.

Nowhere close to the plagiarism of Obama basing his whole campaign of Hope and Change cribbed from Deval Patrick's run for Governor or Bidens cribbing a whole speech from a British memeber of Parliament and calling it his one.


Xavier_Onassis

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Re: The Newtster swipes ideas from the deceased.
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2011, 03:52:26 PM »
Speaking as a professor who has assigned and graded many term papers, if portion of some previous work is copied into a student's paper without attribution, it is plagiarism. All statements in a scholarly paper that are not attributed directly or indirectly to someone else are assumed to be original.

It is simply amazing how often professors I know would tell me that they suspected a paper of being plagiarized back in the beginning days of the Internet, and I would type three sentences into a search engine and the entire paper would pop up, verbatim.

What you are saying is nonsense, like saying that unless stolen property does not have the words "I stole this" written on it, it is not stolen.

Gingrich SHOULD say that this idea came from Booker T's work, which is obviously he did. Gingrich is an academic with a PhD. He knows what plagiarism is, just as I do.

What Gingrich said is not illegal, it is simply intellectually dishonest.

It does not matter whether others have done the same thing before this. That does not make it not plagiarism. 

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

BT

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Re: The Newtster swipes ideas from the deceased.
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2011, 04:04:03 PM »
Newt expressed his thoughts on school children doing maintenance tasks at school during a debate. No footnotes needed. No bibliography attached.

This nitpicking is as bad as claiming that Cain stole his 9-9-9 plan from a video game. No proof just the assertion that Cain is just some dumb Uncle Tom who steals ideas from video games.

Every time i bite into a peanut butter and jelly sandwich am i required to say Booker T invented this?
 


sirs

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Re: The Newtster swipes ideas from the deceased.
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2011, 04:11:22 PM »
What you are saying is nonsense, like saying that unless stolen property does not have the words "I stole this" written on it, it is not stolen.

Gingrich SHOULD say that this idea came from Booker T's work, which is obviously he did. Gingrich is an academic with a PhD. He knows what plagiarism is, just as I do.

What Gingrich said is not illegal, it is simply intellectually dishonest.


You have yet to answer the all important "why"??  Minus some factoid of Newt claiming this was his idea, you're doing nothing more than trying to throw crap at Newt, and hope it sticks.  Why would he need to claim it came from Booker??  Why can't it simply be a good idea??

Many a conservative repeats ideas that eminated with Reagan.  I don't see anyone claiming that he got his ideas from Reagan, or that Biden got his speech from British Parliment, or Obama claiming he got his Hope & Change idea from Patrick.  If were to apply your Professorial parameters, messers Obama & Biden are just as "intellectually dishonest".  Is that your position as well??
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: The Newtster swipes ideas from the deceased.
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2011, 05:01:45 PM »
My position is that Booker T.'s original story in his autobiography was inspirational. Read it, Up From Slavery is online.

Newt's version of it had to include union busting as well, and is probably impractical, for reasons I have stated. If any action results from this idea, I will be quite surprised. I am not opposed to paying teenagers for pushing a broom or doing other cleaning jobs in schools.I am opposed to replacing all janitors with said teenagers. I do not consider most child labor laws to be silly.

The Newtster is simply not the great thinker he claims to be, though he surely is better at thinking than any of the other GOP types that oppose him. I am not a propagandist, I have no reason to believe that I could say anything that would result in anyone voting differently in the GOP primaries. If Gingrich gets the nomination, I expect there will be one or more third party candidates, notably Ron Paul, who is not running for Congress again in 2012, from what I hear. This could result in a victory for the President.

I do not consider the Newtster to be intellectually honest, period.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: The Newtster swipes ideas from the deceased.
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2011, 05:06:45 PM »
So, to apply your Professorial parameters, messers Obama & Biden are just as "intellectually dishonest" as well, period.  Good, glad we got that cleared up
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: The Newtster swipes ideas from the deceased.
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2011, 05:11:06 PM »
Your position in regards to Newt's statement concerning a work study program for high schoolers being blatant plagiarism, is unreasonable. But at least you didn't go off on some Dickensian fantasy about abusing child labor laws, so you get credit for that.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: The Newtster swipes ideas from the deceased.
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2011, 05:25:47 PM »
Not good, I do not agree to anything you say, get lost, creep.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: The Newtster swipes ideas from the deceased.
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2011, 05:40:04 PM »
And there's the SOP we knew wouldn't take long to surface.  Yea, that double standard of yours is pretty hard to swallow, isn't it.  Keep throwing crap, and see if anything sticks. 
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: The Newtster swipes ideas from the deceased.
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2011, 07:32:01 PM »
    Wait wait wait....?


        Newt Gingritch is reading Booker T. Washington?

        He should, who shouldn't?

        BTW is a grand example of American person, good to be emulated.