Author Topic: Global warming is more alarmist than alarming.  (Read 1917 times)

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sirs

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Global warming is more alarmist than alarming.
« on: August 29, 2007, 12:03:52 PM »
BY BRET STEPHENS
Tuesday, August 28, 2007


The recent discovery by a retired businessman and climate kibitzer named Stephen McIntyre that 1934--and not 1998 or 2006--was the hottest year on record in the U.S. could not have been better timed. August is the month when temperatures are high and the news cycle is slow, leading, inevitably, to profound meditations on global warming. Newsweek performed its journalistic duty two weeks ago with an expos? on what it calls the global warming "denial machine." I hereby perform mine with a denier's confession

I confess: I am prepared to acknowledge that Mr. McIntyre's discovery amounts to what a New York Times reporter calls a "statistically meaningless" rearrangement of data.

But just how "meaningless" would this have seemed had it yielded the opposite result? Had Mr. McIntyre found that a collation error understated recent temperatures by 0.15 degrees Celsius (instead of overstating it by that amount, as he discovered), would the news coverage have differed in tone and approach? When it was reported in January that 2006 was one of the hottest years on record, NASA's James Hansen used the occasion to warn grimly that "2007 is likely to be warmer than 2006." Yet now he says, in connection to the data revision, that "in general I think we want to avoid going into more and more detail about ranking of individual years."

I confess: I am prepared to acknowledge that the world has been and will be getting warmer thanks in some part to an increase in man-made atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gases. I acknowledge this in the same way I'm confident that the equatorial radius of Saturn is about 60,000 kilometers: not because I've measured it myself, but out of a deep reserve of faith in the methods of the scientific community, above all its reputation for transparency and open-mindedness.

But that faith is tested when leading climate scientists won't share the data they use to estimate temperatures past and present and thus construct all-important trend lines. This was true of climatologist Michael Mann, who refused to disclose the algorithm behind his massively influential "hockey stick" graph, which purported to demonstrate a sharp uptick in global temperatures over the past century. (The accuracy of the graph was seriously discredited by Mr. McIntyre and his colleague Ross McKitrick.) This was true also of Phil Jones of the Climatic Research Unit at the University of East Anglia, who reportedly turned down one request for information with the remark, "Why should I make the data available to you, when your aim is to try and find something wrong with it?"

I confess: I understand that global warming may have negative consequences. Heat waves, droughts and coastal flooding may become more intense. Temperature-sensitive parasites such as malaria could become more widespread. Lakes may be depleted by evaporation. Animal life will suffer.

But as Bjorn Lomborg points out in his sharp, persuasive and aptly titled book "Cool It," a warming climate has advantages, too, and not just trivial ones. Though global warming will cause more heat deaths, it will also mean many fewer cold deaths. Drought may increase in some areas, but warming also means both more rain and longer growing seasons. Temperature changes will harm some wildlife in some places. But many species will benefit from a bit more warmth. Does anyone know for certain that the net human and environmental losses from global warming will exceed overall gains?

I confess: Denial never solves anything. But neither does sensational and deceptive journalism.
Newsweek illustrates this point by its choice of cover art--a picture of the sun, where the surface temperature hovers around 6,000 degrees Celsius. Given that the consensus scientific estimate for average temperature increases over the next century is a comparatively modest 2.6 degrees, this would seem a rather Murdochian way of convincing readers about the gravity of the climate threat. On the inside pages is a photograph of a polar bear stranded on melting ice. But the caption that the bears are "at risk" belies clear evidence that the bear population has risen five-fold since the 1960s. Another series of photographs, of a huge Antarctic ice shelf that quickly disintegrated in 2002, suggests the imminence of doom. But why not also mention that temperatures at the South Pole have been going down for 50 years?

I confess: It's easy to be indifferent to far-off and diffuse threats. It's hard to work toward solutions the benefits of which will not be felt in our lifetime.

Then again, if Americans are not fully persuaded of the dangers of global warming, as Newsweek laments, don't chalk it up to the pernicious influence of the so-called deniers and their enablers at ExxonMobil and Fox News. Today, global warming is variously suggested as the root cause of terrorism, the conflict in Darfur and the rising incidence of suicides in Italy. Yet the 20th century offers excellent reasons to be suspicious of monocausal explanations for the world's ills, monomaniacs intent on saving us from ourselves, and the long train of experts predicting death by overpopulation, resource depletion, global cooling, nuclear winter and prions. Also, hypocrites. When we are called on to bike to work, permanently abjure air travel, "eat locally" and so on, we expect to be led by example, not by a new nomenklatura.

I confess: Though it may surprise those who use the term "denier" so as to put me on a moral plane with Holocaust deniers, I have children for whom I would not wish an environmental apocalypse.

Yet neither do I wish the civilizational bounties built up over two centuries by an industrial, inventive, adaptive, globalized and energy-hungry society to be squandered chasing comparatively small environmental benefits at gigantic economic costs. One needn't deny global warming as a problem to deny it as the only or greatest problem. The great virtue of Mr. Lomborg's book is its insistence on trying to measure the good done per dollar spent. Do we save a few lives, at huge cost, as a byproduct of curbing global warming? Or do we save many, for less, by acting on problems directly?

Some might argue it is immoral to think this way. Maybe they are the ones living in denial.


A Denier's Confession

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Global warming is more alarmist than alarming.
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2007, 04:03:26 PM »
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

_JS

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Re: Global warming is more alarmist than alarming.
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2007, 04:07:07 PM »
Sirs,

Do you even look at the data on climate change? Do you know what ice core samples are? Do you know why it is problematic, whether or not we are the source of the increase in temperature?

I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
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   Fill my ears with silver
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sirs

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Re: Global warming is more alarmist than alarming.
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2007, 04:32:47 PM »
Sirs, Do you even look at the data on climate change?

Yea, do you?  And more to the point, do you look at those scientists & climatologists on record, as concluding the reasons for what may be causing the current warming trend is vast, likely cyclical, and by no means conclusively man made driven??




"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Henny

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Re: Global warming is more alarmist than alarming.
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2007, 04:48:06 PM »
Sirs, Do you even look at the data on climate change?

Yea, do you?  And more to the point, do you look at those scientists & climatologists on record, as concluding the reasons for what may be causing the current warming trend is vast, likely cyclical, and by no means conclusively man made driven??






People in this group - including yourself - have posted articles that discredit global warming for any reason.

_JS

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Re: Global warming is more alarmist than alarming.
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2007, 05:05:04 PM »
Yea, do you?  And more to the point, do you look at those scientists & climatologists on record, as concluding the reasons for what may be causing the current warming trend is vast, likely cyclical, and by no means conclusively man made driven??

Frankly, I'm pretty sure you are lying on your first answer.

Henny answered your second question far better than I can.

It is a game to you. Political jabbing. It won't be a game for future generations. While that means shit nothing to people like you that have no generational ethics, it means something to some of us.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

sirs

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Re: Global warming is more alarmist than alarming.
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2007, 06:42:05 PM »
And more to the point, do you look at those scientists & climatologists on record, as concluding the reasons for what may be causing the current warming trend is vast, likely cyclical, and by no means conclusively man made driven??

Frankly, I'm pretty sure you are lying on your first answer.

Well, that'd be your mistake to make


Henny answered your second question far better than I can.

And that answer would be......?


It is a game to you. Political jabbing. It won't be a game for future generations. While that means shit nothing to people like you that have no generational ethics, it means something to some of us.

Boy, you're in rare Tee-like form today.  A game huh?  Talk about hyperbole.  So, since I don't follow into the Sky-is-falling man-made Global Warming hysterical propoganda, I apparently care nothing about this or future generations.  Well, since you apparently know me better than I know myself, I guess we best cut this discussion off now, before someone really gets angry    >:(
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Richpo64

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Re: Global warming is more alarmist than alarming.
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2007, 06:53:47 PM »
Sirs,

Why are you even discussing this issue? It's no longer under discussion. If you continue to discuss it's validity, you will be send to a re-education camp.

sirs

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Re: Global warming is more alarmist than alarming.
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2007, 07:15:22 PM »
I thought I was discussing this with rationally minded folks, Rich.  Apparently, I'm mistaken
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

_JS

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Re: Global warming is more alarmist than alarming.
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2007, 09:50:47 AM »
Quote
So, since I don't follow into the Sky-is-falling man-made Global Warming hysterical propoganda, I apparently care nothing about this or future generations.

Read what I wrote again (or for the first time, perhaps).

Quote
Well, since you apparently know me better than I know myself, I guess we best cut this discussion off now, before someone really gets angry

You're not that complicated ;)

Let's look at the article you posted, shall we?

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But just how "meaningless" would this have seemed had it yielded the opposite result?

Equally meaningless. We're talking about long periods of time and significant increases in temperature. Also, the studies would have to be repeated with similar results. One year of data, just like one point of data does not a scientific principle make.

Quote
But that faith is tested when leading climate scientists won't share the data they use to estimate temperatures past and present and thus construct all-important trend lines.

All the data is available in scientific journals. Scientists do not like dealing with the public, media, and sometimes with people in general.

Why?

Because people with agendas don't want to look at the data, methods, testing, or any of the science behind it. They don't understand it. They don't want to understand it. They want to find something they can simplify and then hammer on it to the public. Journalists and the average reader aren't scientists and aren't willing to learn enough to be informed. They'd much rather be entertained. If I were a scientist and had my work bashed by two-bit journalists before, I'd save it for scientific journals as well and tell them to get stuffed.

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But as Bjorn Lomborg points out in his sharp, persuasive and aptly titled book...

LOLOLOL

Bjorn Lomborg has been shown to have manufactured data and flat out use academic dishonesty. Seriously, this is the person you hang your hat on? He's not even a scientist! He's a vegan, homosexual business professor who makes a living being controversial. For example, to promote this and another book, he claimed to be a member of Greenpeace, but Greenpeace checked their rolls and he was lying about that too.

I love it.

Quote
Yet the 20th century offers excellent reasons to be suspicious of monocausal explanations for the world's ills, monomaniacs intent on saving us from ourselves, and the long train of experts predicting death by overpopulation, resource depletion, global cooling, nuclear winter and prions.

For once, I actually agree. You can throw in: communism, atheism, Islam, terrorism, Iran...

Quote
The great virtue of Mr. Lomborg's book is its insistence on trying to measure the good done per dollar spent.

Another reference to Lomborg...it brings me great joy to see such quality research ;)

I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

Plane

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Re: Global warming is more alarmist than alarming.
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2007, 05:11:05 PM »
Quote
Because people with agendas don't want to look at the data, methods, testing, or any of the science behind it. They don't understand it. They don't want to understand it. They want to find something they can simplify and then hammer on it to the public. Journalists and the average reader aren't scientists and aren't willing to learn enough to be informed.



This is well said , but it is the same accusation in both directions .

Global Warming is politicly usefull. Measures to mitigate the warming trend that are more politically usefull than practicly usefull strike me as frauds .


Take the Kyoto treaty for example , it is so bad that there is practly no signatory liveing up to its terms and there were no senators willing to vote for it , yet it still serves as a whip for flogging politicians who do not support it.

I would rather have proactive and bipartizen measures to cool the planet explored than ignored .

Then when we find somethig that is doable, we can discuss whether or not to do it meaningfully.