Collective Bargaining

[BT]

What the Wisconsin bill does according to the muddied reports i have read, raises the contribution requirements from employees and does away with collective bargaining on any issue other than wages.

Is that your understanding?

[BT]

I was referring to the reality in Wisconsin not Sirs opinion

Right. And he has backpedaled away from his opening position anyway.

[sirs]

I was referring to the reality in Wisconsin not Sirs opinion

Right. And he has backpedaled away from his opening position anyway.

Boy, you just love this being wrong about sirs position.  You really need to adopt a more fulfilling hbby, when I can keep knocking down these erroreous conclusions on what sirs must think, over and over again.  Yes, collective bargaining is an issue, but not the problem, nor the position I've prefaced as "the issue"

[BT]

So, what's wrong with Collective Bargaining being done away with, for Public Employees, given the state of current reality and our economy?  Does Greece ring a bell for anyone?

If that is not your position, what is your position?

[Plane]

Private schools have had to compete for a smaller pool of well-qualified teachers

can we honestly say we have a pro-teacher culture

Isn't this a good trend?

Being scarce ought to make them able to demand more pay.

[sirs]

So, what's wrong with Collective Bargaining being done away with, for Public Employees, given the state of current reality and our economy?  Does Greece ring a bell for anyone?

If that is not your position, what is your position?

That's absolutely my position, but that's NOT the main issue involved here

[BT]

So, what's wrong with Collective Bargaining being done away with, for Public Employees, given the state of current reality and our economy?  Does Greece ring a bell for anyone?

If that is not your position, what is your position?

That's absolutely my position, but that's NOT the main issue involved here

Then according to you, what is the main issue involved here.

You already have what i consider the main issue.

[sirs]

HOW

That is the main issue....the HOW the unions became so predominant in shaping legislation.  And HOW now that legislation has been leading states to economic ruin.  It's one thing to lobby for perks, most every "group" has their lobbiests, to get their little piece of the pie.  But these Unions & their leadership, using Plane's dues, regardless of his support or not, literally bankroll politicians. 

Specifically here in CA, Governor Brown prior to this tenure, opened the floodgates with his passing collective bargaining for all public employees, his 1st go around.  Seemed so innocent at the time.  Governor Davis, when faced with his recall, was lathered with campaign contributions from the unions, and before he was voted out with the recall, signed the most incredible pension plans and perks, supposedly to be paid for by current investments, but with his signing, those pensions had the legal protection of the tax payers.  And when the investments went south, we the tax payers, are now saddled with finances this state can not bear.  A recent article indicated thousands of retired public employees are receiving lifetime 6digit pensions, free healthcare, not to mention they can still work and make money doing other things.  Apparently Wisconsin and other states are under a similar unsustaining obligation

The point being that, under the cloak of misdirection & misinformation by union leadership, not to mention the millions/billions placed into politician's coffers, Public employees now have a combination of salary, benefits and pensions that far surpass that of a similar private sector employee. 

Again, NOTHING WRONG WITH TRYING TO GET THE BEST DEAL ONE CAN GET, so don't trying pulling that garbage.  The issue is HOW the unions came about with these deals, and the repercussions placed on the state and the tax payer, as a result

[BT]

HOW

That is the main issue....the HOW the unions became so predominant in shaping legislation.  And HOW now that legislation has been leading states to economic ruin.  It's one thing to lobby for perks, most every "group" has their lobbiests, to get their little piece of the pie.  But these Unions & their leadership, using Plane's dues, regardless of his support or not, literally bankroll politicians. 

Specifically here in CA, Governor Brown prior to this tenure, opened the floodgates with his passing collective bargaining for all public employees, his 1st go around.  Seemed so innocent at the time.  Governor Davis, when faced with his recall, was lathered with campaign contributions from the unions, and before he was voted out with the recall, signed the most incredible pension plans and perks, supposedly to be paid for by current investments, but with his signing, those pensions had the legal protection of the tax payers.  And when the investments went south, we the tax payers, are now saddled with finances this state can not bear.  A recent article indicated thousands of retired public employees are receiving lifetime 6digit pensions, free healthcare, not to mention they can still work and make money doing other things.  Apparently Wisconsin and other states are under a similar unsustaining obligation

The point being that, under the cloak of misdirection & misinformation by union leadership, not to mention the millions/billions placed into politician's coffers, Public employees now have a combination of salary, benefits and pensions that far surpass that of a similar private sector employee. 

Again, NOTHING WRONG WITH TRYING TO GET THE BEST DEAL ONE CAN GET, so don't trying pulling that garbage.  The issue is HOW the unions came about with these deals, and the repercussions placed on the state and the tax payer, as a result

So what do you plan to do about this issue?

Apparently your opening position concerning this issue was to do away with collective bargaining for public sector employees, does that remain the same or has that changed?

[sirs]

So what do you plan to do about this issue?

Apparently your opening position concerning this issue was to do away with collective bargaining for public sector employees, does that remain the same or has that changed?

That absolutely is a part of the equation.  Unless Public employees put enough pressure on their leadership and get them to renegotiate terms that will drastically ratchet down their pension plans, while also making THEM start paying for their own healthcare, the status quo is simply & literally unsustainable.  Massive layoffs, severe cutting of services, and thousands of employees likely losing their pensions, all together is what's in store

[Plane]

So what do you plan to do about this issue?

Apparently your opening position concerning this issue was to do away with collective bargaining for public sector employees, does that remain the same or has that changed?

That absolutely is a part of the equation.  Unless Public employees put enough pressure on their leadership and get them to renegotiate terms that will drastically ratchet down their pension plans, while also making THEM start paying for their own healthcare, the status quo is simply & literally unsustainable.  Massive layoffs, severe cutting of services, and thousands of employees likely losing their pensions, all together is what's in store

You want WHAT!

......Public employees put enough pressure on their leadership and get them to renegotiate terms that will drastically ratchet down their pension plans, while also making THEM start paying for their own healthcare.......

Ouch , man....who does this?

[BT]

Massive layoffs, severe cutting of services, and thousands of employees likely losing their pensions, all together is what's in store

Buckle up. It's gonna be a bumpy ride

[Plane]

I can share in sacrifice, already I have accepted a pay freeze, but don't pass me the hemlock , I havn't the taste for it.

[sirs]

So what do you plan to do about this issue?

Apparently your opening position concerning this issue was to do away with collective bargaining for public sector employees, does that remain the same or has that changed?

That absolutely is a part of the equation.  Unless Public employees put enough pressure on their leadership and get them to renegotiate terms that will drastically ratchet down their pension plans, while also making THEM start paying for their own healthcare, the status quo is simply & literally unsustainable.  Massive layoffs, severe cutting of services, and thousands of employees likely losing their pensions, all together is what's in store

You want WHAT!

......Public employees put enough pressure on their leadership and get them to renegotiate terms that will drastically ratchet down their pension plans, while also making THEM start paying for their own healthcare.......

Ouch , man....who does this?

Yea, we all (at least us in the Private sector) have to cut back when times are tough.  Not quite what one could refer to as fair that Public employees not only don't cut back, but add more Government jobs...ALL payed for by the tax payer, who's already been hit by the bad economy, raised taxes, and in many cases, layed off

Massive layoffs, severe cutting of services, and thousands of employees likely losing their pensions, all together is what's in store

Buckle up. It's gonna be a bumpy ride

Yet, with the pending legislation, none of that happens.  No bumps, just some ridges, and employees that keep both their jobs and their pensions

[BT]

Yet, with the pending legislation, none of that happens.  No bumps, just some ridges, and employees that keep both their jobs and their pensions

So the union leadership is misleading the rank and file, because the Wisconsin deal is a good one?
Guess they ought to put it up for a vote down at the union hall.