Author Topic: We're fucked  (Read 23768 times)

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BT

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Re: We're fucked
« Reply #135 on: October 25, 2008, 07:47:51 PM »
>>Another unfocused reply. Are Birth Control Pills hard to get?<<

Just one example of FREE birth control & GYN exams:

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/nassau-county/free-birth-control-and-gyn-exams.htm


So BC pills are as easy to get as just showing up.

Wonder how much easier XO wants to make it?



Amianthus

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Re: We're fucked
« Reply #136 on: October 25, 2008, 09:22:08 PM »
So BC pills are as easy to get as just showing up.

Wonder how much easier XO wants to make it?

Well, if you have to go somewhere to pick 'em up, then it's unfair to the poor. The government should have vans driving around the poor neighborhoods, knocking on doors and offering the pills for free, I'm sure.
 ::)

Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Plane

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Re: We're fucked
« Reply #137 on: October 25, 2008, 09:42:36 PM »
Is there a right to become pregnant as many times as one may please?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122230566090673847.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: We're fucked
« Reply #138 on: October 25, 2008, 10:19:52 PM »
Is there a right to become pregnant as many times as one may please?

================================================
Unless there is a law against it, one must assume such a right.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: We're fucked
« Reply #139 on: October 26, 2008, 01:54:30 AM »
Is there a right to become pregnant as many times as one may please?

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Unless there is a law against it, one must assume such a right.

Judges have taken that right a few times .

I don't want this to be anything but a basic right , like other rights , not infringed without good reason and due process.

crocat

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Re: We're fucked
« Reply #140 on: October 26, 2008, 10:42:14 AM »
I don't see a single thing wrong with over-the-counter sale of Plan B pills to anyone old enough to get pregnant in the first place.  The world is plenty over-populated as it is without adding unwanted children into the soup as well.  Anyone who thinks a collection of cells without a brain or a nervous system (which is about where the pregnancy is when Plan B terminates it) is a human being is wrong.  Period.  I know what a human being looks like, and it's not a round little microscopic ball of cells.

This seems to be a conversation of the deaf - - while I am talking about basic human rights like food and shelter, cro is talking about the "right" to do whatever one pleases, i.e., to damage public property, use the streets as a toilet, etc.  NO, cro, nobody has the "right" to use the streets as a toilet, damage public property or do anything else they please.  Let's get past that, the so-called "right" to do whatsoever one pleases is a straw-man, a "right" I never claimed for anybody - - the basic rights I am speaking of include a right not to be tortured, a right to food and health care and shelter.  BT asks, Why?  That 's easy - - because they're human beings and because I and millions more like me feel that way about them. 
Anyone who doesn't is a fascist, an enemy of the people.

You once again confuse perks, privileges, "extras" with basic human rights.  Perks etc. must be earned: there's no free lunch. You want an automobile, earn an automobile.  Basic human rights are just that - - basic.  They're built into each and every human being, factory-installed.  Nobody has to "earn" them and they're not conditional upon fulfillment of some arbitrary or mythical set of "responsibilities." 


Michael, Michael.... this is no 'strawman'.... this is you failing to realize that laws are always up for judicial interpretation.   You want (what you consider to be ) rights not to be impinged upon but the problem lies in the fact that we cannot cherry pick any rights laid out by the Constitution.  That is EXACTLY what I see liberals doing time after time.  Now since you are a communist me thinks that you are not talking about rights at all.  You are just talking about Party promises.  Since the Party is making up the rules (not rights) they are the only one than can change them or take them away (without debate or the public having a voice in that decision).  Well, I suppose that they could with a revolution.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: We're fucked
« Reply #141 on: October 26, 2008, 11:38:12 AM »
Michael, Michael.... this is no 'strawman'.... this is you failing to realize that laws are always up for judicial interpretation.   You want (what you consider to be ) rights not to be impinged upon but the problem lies in the fact that we cannot cherry pick any rights laid out by the Constitution.  That is EXACTLY what I see liberals doing time after time.  Now since you are a communist me thinks that you are not talking about rights at all.  You are just talking about Party promises.  Since the Party is making up the rules (not rights) they are the only one than can change them or take them away (without debate or the public having a voice in that decision).  Well, I suppose that they could with a revolution.

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This is a total dodge of the issue. Total and complete. What you think liberals do or communists do has nothing at all to do with this issue: why not sell Plan B to anyone who asks for them?

It is entirely unrelated to anyone being a liberal, a communist, a whig or a republican.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

crocat

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Re: We're fucked
« Reply #142 on: October 26, 2008, 02:15:31 PM »
Michael, Michael.... this is no 'strawman'.... this is you failing to realize that laws are always up for judicial interpretation.   You want (what you consider to be ) rights not to be impinged upon but the problem lies in the fact that we cannot cherry pick any rights laid out by the Constitution.  That is EXACTLY what I see liberals doing time after time.  Now since you are a communist me thinks that you are not talking about rights at all.  You are just talking about Party promises.  Since the Party is making up the rules (not rights) they are the only one than can change them or take them away (without debate or the public having a voice in that decision).  Well, I suppose that they could with a revolution.

=============================================
This is a total dodge of the issue. Total and complete. What you think liberals do or communists do has nothing at all to do with this issue: why not sell Plan B to anyone who asks for them?

It is entirely unrelated to anyone being a liberal, a communist, a whig or a republican.

what the fuck.... Why is it that when I make a point, that I have to defend the strawman that you liberals hoist.... pay attention. 

I don't think that we should give out free PESTICIDES to our UNINFORMED youth that figure they can take a little DDT and go on to the next roll in the hay.

I am not going to debate DDT the wonder pesticide.  Cigarettes not being harmful to your health.  The list goes on and on about oh, it's safe and then decades later, oh, it is not.   Only to be followed by massive law suits that always come down to dramatic government expenditures.  Your logic of giving to anyone who asks for them is simply YOU cherry picking your rights again.

We are responsible for our children - you usurp that by giving them drugs, i.e you are disregarding my rights.
The boy that fathered this pregnancy, may or may not be aware of his future progeny, i.e. you are disregarding his rights.

You are also allowing a person that is not legally responsible for making decisions to make irrevocable decisions.
if you are supposing to support this program with my tax dollar, again you are taking my money to pay for your short sightedness.  While you are just as animated about the government spending tax dollars on things that you oppose.

sirs

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Re: We're fucked
« Reply #143 on: October 26, 2008, 04:53:09 PM »
This is a total dodge of the issue. Total and complete. What you think liberals do or communists do has nothing at all to do with this issue: why not sell Plan B to anyone who asks for them?  It is entirely unrelated to anyone being a liberal, a communist, a whig or a republican.

Why is it that when I make a point, that I have to defend the strawman that you liberals hoist.... pay attention.  We are responsible for our children - you usurp that by giving them drugs, i.e you are disregarding my rights.  The boy that fathered this pregnancy, may or may not be aware of his future progeny, i.e. you are disregarding his rights.

You are also allowing a person that is not legally responsible for making decisions to make irrevocable decisions.
if you are supposing to support this program with my tax dollar, again you are taking my money to pay for your short sightedness.  While you are just as animated about the government spending tax dollars on things that you oppose.


BRILLIANT rebuttal, Cro

*Golf clap*
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: We're fucked
« Reply #144 on: October 26, 2008, 06:02:58 PM »
I have usurped nothing. If you are worried about the "rights" of the dude who knocked your daughter up or your daughter who got herself knocked up, then listen carefully; IT IS UP TO YOU as the parent to convince her not to take Plan B. If you told her to go out and find a dude and get herself knocked up, the you can go that tiny extra distance further and explain all about it.

Taking the pill is simply an option that should be available. It is not compulsory. Just like all contraception is voluntary, as all sex should be entirely voluntary.

As members of society, it is in our interests for many reasons that unwanted children not be born. So it is up to you to convince her to want her offspring. Just as if she cannot be convinced, that you should convince her to use proper birth control before the fact.

No one is denying your right to raise your children. But if they shoot out a bunch of unwanted kids before they are old enough to be responsible, then keep in mind that YOU are responsible.

So far as I know,this has nothing whatever to do with being a liberal or a conservative or a whig or a tory.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

BT

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Re: We're fucked
« Reply #145 on: October 26, 2008, 06:07:13 PM »
Quote
But if they shoot out a bunch of unwanted kids before they are old enough to be responsible, then keep in mind that YOU are responsible.


Not according to Mikey.


Xavier_Onassis

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Re: We're fucked
« Reply #146 on: October 26, 2008, 07:32:33 PM »
Mikey can speak for himself. He doesn't need me.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

BT

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Re: We're fucked
« Reply #147 on: October 26, 2008, 07:53:07 PM »
Mikey can speak for himself. He doesn't need me.

did i say otherwise?

crocat

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Re: We're fucked
« Reply #148 on: October 26, 2008, 08:15:51 PM »
"I have usurped nothing. If you are worried about the "rights" of the dude who knocked your daughter up or your daughter who got herself knocked up, then listen carefully; IT IS UP TO YOU as the parent to convince her not to take Plan B. If you told her to go out and find a dude and get herself knocked up, the you can go that tiny extra distance further and explain all about it."

Yes you have, and here again.  First in your brutally liberal zealous manner, you have claimed me guilty about not being able to control my children.   Been there and done that....no lack of control for my kids.  Second you insult the father without any understanding of him and his position on said pregnancy as a 'dude who knocked up my daughter.'  Third, and I find this atypical of you and yours in that fact that it is UP to me to convince my daughter not to use plan B while you fucking liberals are encouraging her to terminate without first trying to educate and, Fourth, and when all else fails, you insult me.



"Taking the pill is simply an option that should be available. It is not compulsory. Just like all contraception is voluntary, as all sex should be entirely voluntary."

but there is no long term study to the safety of the option and you don't know how safe it is.  Again, future lawsuits by the three mentioned above.

"As members of society, it is in our interests for many reasons that unwanted children not be born. So it is up to you to convince her to want her offspring. Just as if she cannot be convinced, that you should convince her to use proper birth control before the fact."

Let me just say China.

"No one is denying your right to raise your children. But if they shoot out a bunch of unwanted kids before they are old enough to be responsible, then keep in mind that YOU are responsible."

Ahhh.... and who has said that I have lost sight of this responsibility.

Your solutions and rebuttals in regards to these problems are both lacking in full and thorough contemplation.

« Last Edit: October 26, 2008, 08:18:00 PM by crocat »

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: We're fucked
« Reply #149 on: October 26, 2008, 08:23:37 PM »
you fucking liberals are encouraging her to terminate without first trying to educate and, Fourth, and when all else fails, you insult me.

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I did not say that I encourage anything. I merely said that any women should have the option of choice. That is all.

I have not insulted anyone, since your daughter, her sperm donor and any fetus involved, and your situation  are purely hypothetical, and I cannot actually insult them any more than I can insult Batman or the Tooth Fairy.


Your solutions and rebuttals in regards to these problems are both lacking in full and thorough contemplation.

That would be your opinion, but I find my contemplation full and thorough and my solutions complete.
If you do not like them, find your own.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."