Author Topic: Four Freedoms  (Read 11476 times)

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MissusDe

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Four Freedoms
« on: October 16, 2008, 11:07:51 PM »
The Corner

Thank God we live in a free country, where you can speak your mind on public issues, without fear that those who disagree will respond by exposing anything you've ever done that you regret or that could embarrass your family.

Oh, wait, never mind. We have to know, according to some, about Joe the Plumber's tax lien, and how he doesn't have a license - which, if the smear artists bothered to check the law, he only needs for commercial work, not residential work.

This is the way our opponents operate now. Destroy anyone who stands in your way. Humiliate them. Make sure that anyone else who ever wants to skeptically question Barack Obama knows that every last bit of their dirty laundry will be aired for all the world to see. Bristol Palin, Trig Palin, ? hey, it's all fair game. They've got to make an example of them. Show them that this sort of dangerous speech won't be allowed in the New America.

Remember the man in the plaid shirt, standing at the town meeting in one of Norman Rockwell's "Four Freedoms" paintings? He wouldn't recognize this country anymore.



Knutey

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Re: Four Freedoms
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2008, 11:41:52 PM »
The Corner

Thank God we live in a free country, where you can speak your mind on public issues, without fear that those who disagree will respond by exposing anything you've ever done that you regret or that could embarrass your family.

Oh, wait, never mind. We have to know, according to some, about Joe the Plumber's tax lien, and how he doesn't have a license - which, if the smear artists bothered to check the law, he only needs for commercial work, not residential work.

This is the way our opponents operate now. Destroy anyone who stands in your way. Humiliate them. Make sure that anyone else who ever wants to skeptically question Barack Obama knows that every last bit of their dirty laundry will be aired for all the world to see. Bristol Palin, Trig Palin, ? hey, it's all fair game. They've got to make an example of them. Show them that this sort of dangerous speech won't be allowed in the New America.

Remember the man in the plaid shirt, standing at the town meeting in one of Norman Rockwell's "Four Freedoms" paintings? He wouldn't recognize this country anymore.




What sanctimonious s crap from the pals of swiftboaters. You have all the right in the world to believe whatever silly shit you want and I have every right to point out that you are silly fools. I always hated the insipedness of Norman Rockwell What drivel.

Michael Tee

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Re: Four Freedoms
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2008, 11:43:27 PM »
I think it's terrible.  If McCain wants to manufacture a myth about the fictitious problems of a guy who can't go into business and live on $250,000 a year, who in their right mind would try to challenge that bullshit with a little smidgen of reality?  The damn press, that's who!

hnumpah

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Re: Four Freedoms
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2008, 12:22:49 AM »
Quote
...Joe the Plumber's tax lien, and how he doesn't have a license - which, if the smear artists bothered to check the law, he only needs for commercial work, not residential work.

The burly, bald man acknowledged he doesn't have a plumber's license, but said he didn't need one because he works for someone else at a company that does residential work.

But Wurzelbacher still would need to be a licensed apprentice or journeyman to work in Toledo, and he's not, said David Golis, manager and residential building official for the Toledo Division of Building Inspection.

State and local records show Wurzelbacher has no license, although his employer does. Golis said there are no records of inspectors citing Wurzelbacher for unlicensed work in Toledo.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081017/ap_on_re_us/joe_the_plumber

So now who needs to check the law?

"I love WikiLeaks." - Donald Trump, October 2016

hnumpah

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Re: Four Freedoms
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2008, 12:24:58 AM »
Quote
This is the way our opponents operate now. Destroy anyone who stands in your way. Humiliate them. Make sure that anyone else who ever wants to skeptically question Barack Obama knows that every last bit of their dirty laundry will be aired for all the world to see. Bristol Palin, Trig Palin, ? hey, it's all fair game. They've got to make an example of them. Show them that this sort of dangerous speech won't be allowed in the New America.

Boo hoo.

What's fair for the goose, etc...
"I love WikiLeaks." - Donald Trump, October 2016

MissusDe

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Re: Four Freedoms
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2008, 01:16:47 AM »
These comments at The Corner say it better than I could:

Getting a lot of emails along these lines:

I don't know why I'm e-mailing you, except that I just need to vent to someone on The Corner. Pass this around to the others if you like ? I bet I'm not the only one.

I really don't like McCain. I'll probably vote for him just as a vote for divided government. I'm far too libertarian in my leanings to be comfortable with McCain (or Obama, for that matter).

That said, the way the pro-Obama media and bloggers, and Obama himself, have responded to Joe has got me nearly shaking with rage. They are attempting to destroy a man ? a private citizen ? who had the audacity to ask The One a question. Mind you, Joe was on his front lawn playing football with his son when Obama strolled up to give him his hopenchange spiel. Obama approached Joe, not the other way around. And Joe asked Obama an honest question. And Obama gave him an honest ? and very, very revealing ? answer. Again, mind you, the embarassment was on Obama's end, not Joe's. It wasn't a gotcha question.

And yet, for that Joe is being pilloried, every aspect of his private and professional life being sorted through and exposed. To prove ... what? What does that have to do with Obama's answer? What does Joe's situation have to do with Obama's philosophical answer ? that he wants to "spread the wealth"? Obama's answer goes down the memory hole while the nation concentrates its fire on obliterating Joe the Plumber.

It's sickening, it's maddening and it's downright chilling.

Sorry for the length. But I am just SEETHING.

And:

I was at LSAT class tonight and the instructor had the audacity to state that Joe the Plumber is a "lunatic" fit to be paralized because he allegedly questioned the merits of social security. The instructor then went on to construct a sample question in which Joe the Plumber is confined to a wheel chair because he has been run down by McCain's 'straight talk express' bus.

Mind you, this professional "educator" graduated from Georgetown, Harvard Law, and Harvard Business. And I'm supposed to be worried about Sarah Palin's lack of an "elite" education?

And:

I could care less about Joe's background, whether he's legit, or whether he is a McCain operative. What I do care about is that I could be attacked like a public figure simply for asking a question, like Joe. I am chilled. No longer undecided either.

BT

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Re: Four Freedoms
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2008, 01:37:09 AM »
Bless Obama and all his supporters as they show their care for the working guy and the little people.

The guy asked Obama a question and Obama answered with a very revealing soundbite.

Last I heard you don't need a permit to ask a question of a politician, especially if he wanders onto your lawn.


Plane

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Re: Four Freedoms
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2008, 03:29:50 AM »
Quote
This is the way our opponents operate now. Destroy anyone who stands in your way. Humiliate them. Make sure that anyone else who ever wants to skeptically question Barack Obama knows that every last bit of their dirty laundry will be aired for all the world to see. Bristol Palin, Trig Palin, ? hey, it's all fair game. They've got to make an example of them. Show them that this sort of dangerous speech won't be allowed in the New America.

Boo hoo.

What's fair for the goose, etc...

What goose are you thinking of?

Plane

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Re: Four Freedoms
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2008, 03:38:05 AM »
Quote
...Joe the Plumber's tax lien, and how he doesn't have a license - which, if the smear artists bothered to check the law, he only needs for commercial work, not residential work.

The burly, bald man acknowledged he doesn't have a plumber's license, but said he didn't need one because he works for someone else at a company that does residential work.

But Wurzelbacher still would need to be a licensed apprentice or journeyman to work in Toledo, and he's not, said David Golis, manager and residential building official for the Toledo Division of Building Inspection.

State and local records show Wurzelbacher has no license, although his employer does. Golis said there are no records of inspectors citing Wurzelbacher for unlicensed work in Toledo.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081017/ap_on_re_us/joe_the_plumber

So now who needs to check the law?



I have done some Plumbing work , for the Navy , which trains its own and does not license them. The situation is diffrent in each state and almost every city so I don't know what Joe needs as far as permits go.

But generally , a helper gets hired , then trained , then gets a union membership and licences.
Even a graduate of a tech school needs some apprentice time.

Going the otherway around would give the license ahead of the training .

hnumpah

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Re: Four Freedoms
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2008, 08:18:28 AM »
Quote
... the way the pro-Obama media and bloggers, and Obama himself, have responded to Joe has got me nearly shaking with rage. They are attempting to destroy a man ? a private citizen ? who had the audacity to ask The One a question. Mind you, Joe was on his front lawn playing football with his son when Obama strolled up to give him his hopenchange spiel. Obama approached Joe, not the other way around. And Joe asked Obama an honest question. And Obama gave him an honest ? and very, very revealing ? answer. Again, mind you, the embarassment was on Obama's end, not Joe's. It wasn't a gotcha question.

And yet, for that Joe is being pilloried, every aspect of his private and professional life being sorted through and exposed. To prove ... what? What does that have to do with Obama's answer? What does Joe's situation have to do with Obama's philosophical answer ? that he wants to "spread the wealth"? Obama's answer goes down the memory hole while the nation concentrates its fire on obliterating Joe the Plumber.

Then perhaps everyone should be upset with McCain, who brought Joe boy up at the debate, which resulted in his being a sudden media star. Didja notice that after he asked Obama the question and ended up on the news, no one was camped out on his lawn - until after the debate, when McCain brought him up, and the next morning he had media tripping all over themselves to talk to him? That's when they started investigating him, when he became a sudden media darling and the clock started ticking on his 15 minutes of fame. Sure, it's ridiculuos that it happens, but when he went from being 'news', as in a quick sound bite, to being 'NEWS', all of a sudden everyone wants to know more about him. It's not the media's fault he has a lien on his property for unpaid taxes, or, apparently, should not be working as an unlicensed plumber, just as it isn't their fault if someone killed in a car crash turns out to have had a blood alcohol reading of .25. We had a teenager shot and killed here recently that got quite a few people up in arms. The only picture his family could find to have the local stations put up, apparently, showed him flashing gang signs; then it came out he was carrying an illegal firearm when he was shot. The outrage toned down a bit after that, when people started seeing him not as some innocent teen gunned down on the street but a gangster wannabe who could just as well have gunned down someone else. Where should the media draw the line at what to report and what not to report?
"I love WikiLeaks." - Donald Trump, October 2016

Plane

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Re: Four Freedoms
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2008, 08:59:47 AM »
Is it the media or is it campaign workers , whose job it is to smear?

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Four Freedoms
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2008, 09:13:33 AM »
It is not Obama's fault that Joe the Plumber was not who he said he was. Joe got his 15 minutes of fame, if he didn't want this, he could have claimed to be who he was and not who he wasn't. I feel sort of sorry for the guy, he is just trying to make a living, and to some degree living in his head, thinking about buying out his boss when he probably could not finance a new refrigerator.

If the media is to blame for disrespecting Joe the Plumber, blame them, not Obama. Not McCain, either. Both took the guy at his word.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Four Freedoms
« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2008, 09:18:34 AM »
It is not Obama's fault that Joe the Plumber was not who he said he was. Joe got his 15 minutes of fame, if he didn't want this, he could have claimed to be who he was and not who he wasn't. I feel sort of sorry for the guy, he is just trying to make a living, and to some degree living in his head, thinking about buying out his boss when he probably could not finance a new refrigerator.

If the media is to blame for disrespecting Joe the Plumber, blame them, not Obama. Not McCain, either. Both took the guy at his word.


What did he say that was not so?

Michael Tee

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Re: Four Freedoms
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2008, 09:44:28 AM »
I noticed in this thread a very heavy use of the word "smear."  Is it really a smear when one reports only the truth about an individual?  And not only the truth, but a truth or truths which are matters of public record - - tax liens, licensing status?

To those who are "seething with rage" - - and I thank Missus D for bringing this to our attention - - I can acknowledge some understanding, if not necessarily sympathy.  It does seem unfair for this guy to be exposed to national ridicule, all for the terrible offence of questioning a man running for high public office.  All the more so when, as it appears now, he did not approach Obama, but rather, Obama approached him.  I would regard this as very bad luck on the part of Joe.  Maybe the answer is stay away from politicians and always keep out of the limelight.  I remember very vividly a concentration camp survivor's advice never to be the first or last in any line, never ask questions of authority and never stand out in any way, good or bad, likely to come to anyone else's notice, which might be good advice for a concentration camp inmate but very sad advice for an American citizen who wants to engage in the democratic process.  Joe interacted with Senator Obama, got his 15 minutes of fame, and is "paying the price" - - but please, people, let's keep our heads screwed on tight and straight here.

Some of our more hysterical friends on the right are screaming that Joe is being "pilloried," that "every aspect" of his private (that's a lie) and professional life is being "exposed"  and that Joe is being "obliterated."  (I hope whoever wrote that dreck never has to live under a fascist dictatorship, where he or she can find out what being "obliterated" really involves.)  That Joe is being "destroyed" (laughable, he's been handed million-dollar name recognition if he ever wants to work as "The Original Joe the Plumber of TV and Internet Fame") and humiliated (sadly, this is true.)

I think the bottom line, when you weed through all the hysterical, overblown hyperbole of the far right lunatic fringe, is that Joe spoke up and was ridiculed, embarrassed and humiliated by the national media.  The cost of some invaluable publicity and 15 minutes of fame was another 15 minutes of public ridicule, basically.  Was it some kind of irreversible tragedy?  Hardly.  Was it fair?  Probably not, but since when was life ever fair?  It is certainly survivable.  Will it "chill" or "dampen" freedom of speech in America?  Will The Man in the Checked Flannel Shirt run for cover and cower in his rec room rather than attend the next Town Hall Meeting in Libertyville, U.S.A.?  What kinda chickenshit wimp would want to?  If THAT'S how The Man in the Checked Flannel Shirt would react, then God damn him, he does not deserve the freedoms that the Founding Fathers gave him, and he should get  his ass out of the Norman Rockwell painting.  Now.    Every candidate for public office, most notably Barak Obama, has to submit himself or herself, to a barrage of ridicule, innuendo, slander, accusations of treason and "terrorism," etc. and somehow, they all manage to survive.

I think those who rush to the defence of Joe the Plumber weeping their crocodile tears and beating their breasts over the "destruction" of an outspoken citizen ought to get a life.  Get serious and start addressing some real issues of the campaign, including Joe's issues, pro and con.  When I think of what these same self-appointed "defenders of privacy" did to Bill Clinton over a consensual blow-job between adults, I just have to say, "GET REAL."
« Last Edit: October 17, 2008, 09:48:46 AM by Michael Tee »

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Four Freedoms
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2008, 10:05:03 AM »
What did he say that was not so?

What did Joe the Plumber say that was not so...let me see.

He claimed that he was contemplating buying out his boss. But poor Joe is, well, too poor to pay his taxes, let alone buy a business. He is also still unqualified to supervise plumbing work (unlike his present boss), since he has yet to get a license.. Joe is not going to be making $250K a year during any one of the next four yeears unless perhaps he wins the lottery, or perhaps finds a Cindy McCain with which to marry.

Joe got his 15 minutes of fame. Let us wish him well and get on with electing a president. Joe is irrelevant to this decision, even though he does seem to like to talk.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."