Author Topic: John Murtha Calls Western Pa. 'Redneck'  (Read 3347 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: John Murtha Calls Western Pa. 'Redneck'
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2008, 02:28:35 AM »
Othello is the hero?
I suppose in the strictest definition of the term he is.

What is Desdimona?

At any rate I think you are right that "Othello" includes foreighn settings and exotic caricters mostly for its commercial success , but Shakespere did have people hissing Iago .

I read an Issac Asimov short article once about "The Merchant of Venice" in which he says that he made the villan the most sympathetic and human caricter , he might not have been able to make a modern Jew the hero but he instead made the "hero" vapid and the "villan " tragic.

=============================================================
Othello is the protagonist, because it is HIS decision how the plot progresses. Other characters do not make up their minds to do one thing or another. They make no moral choices.

Shakespeare set many of his plays in other countries and places, because it was dangerous to suggest that the actions in the plays were dependent on Her Majesty of her government.


Protagonist is a better term for Othello , as it would be for McBeth ,I suppose that to qualify as "hero" they would have to be shown makeing correct and moral choices.

Xavier_Onassis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27916
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: John Murtha Calls Western Pa. 'Redneck'
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2008, 10:10:17 AM »
Protagonist is a better term for Othello , as it would be for McBeth ,I suppose that to qualify as "hero" they would have to be shown makeing correct and moral choices.

==========================================
No, a hero is a main character that starts out perfect or nearly so, always makes the right decisions and wins triumphantly in the end. Epic poems like the El Cid, the Chanson de Rolande, and the Kalavala have heroes, as do kiddie lit tales.

A protagonist is someone with a moral dilemma that the reader can identify with and come to a realization of some greater truth about, called the catharsis.

This indicates more juvenile works from more mature ones. Luke Skywalker always knows he must stay with the Light, Bright and Right Side of the Force, but he does have this minor temptation from Darth Vader, his "Dark Father", so Star Wars has a more juvenile plot than most of the Star Trek films, where the crew has to choose between violating the Prime Directive again. It seems that they always violate the Prime Directive, but the agonize more about it, so Star Trek is somewhat less juvenile.

Most of the major action films like all the Swartzenegger, Die Hard, Chuck Norris films are clearly juvenile: there is so much action, there is no time to consider moral alternatives. It's always pure good against satanic evil.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

_JS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3500
  • Salaires legers. Chars lourds.
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: John Murtha Calls Western Pa. 'Redneck'
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2008, 02:38:27 PM »
Murtha sounds like he is minmzing expectations for PA, in case Obama loses it.

Rendell said basically the sam ething during the primaries.

It could also be a head fake. Bush did this with New Jersey in 2004. Clearly a state the Democrats would win, but some polls showed it close enough that Bush made an appearance in Southern NJ late in the election. The Kerry campaign sent Edwards to NJ to play defense. This consumed valuable resources from the Kerry campaign.

McCain has all but given up on Colorado, a state where he polls far closer than Pennsylvania. Plus the GOP won Colorado in 2004 and lost Pennsylvania. Yet, McCain is focused on PA (which means he has to also win Ohio, Florida, and Virginia). Could be a nice head fake by the Obama campaign.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

_JS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3500
  • Salaires legers. Chars lourds.
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: John Murtha Calls Western Pa. 'Redneck'
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2008, 02:45:31 PM »
usually anything conjoined undergoes surgery to repair the lack of self.    However that is not the point.   I didn't say that people could not vote (nor would I) for a person based on their blackness... what I said is that it is a stupid reason to vote for such.

JS... I know you are bleeding liberal and have known it  for years... I don't judge you or your decisions because ( and I go out on a limb here) I hope you make educated decision that are based on your moral core.

But then... I am a conservative and thus would allow you to arrive at your decision to vote any way you would like.  Maybe democracy is not a pretty lady and I will definately accept her warts and all... to do otherwise might impede my right to call anyone that votes for a person based on the color that person's skin a fucking idiot that deserves to be at the low end of the socio lagess of this country.

Conjoin: To unite or be united in a relationship

I think I used it effectively. That is absolutely not what you said. You said: "the only reason to vote for anyone would be that you are of like opinion on social, moral, and economical values or at the very least closest to your opinions." That is a definitive statement, whether you meant it that way or not - that is what you wrote.

What you think of me is irrelevant. I've been called worse, by far better.

I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: John Murtha Calls Western Pa. 'Redneck'
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2008, 04:04:54 PM »
.



What you think of me is irrelevant. I've been called worse, by far better.




Why thank you !

Though ,I don't feel that I really deserve such extreme flattery.

crocat

  • Guest
Re: John Murtha Calls Western Pa. 'Redneck'
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2008, 04:22:03 PM »
usually anything conjoined undergoes surgery to repair the lack of self.    However that is not the point.   I didn't say that people could not vote (nor would I) for a person based on their blackness... what I said is that it is a stupid reason to vote for such.

JS... I know you are bleeding liberal and have known it  for years... I don't judge you or your decisions because ( and I go out on a limb here) I hope you make educated decision that are based on your moral core.

But then... I am a conservative and thus would allow you to arrive at your decision to vote any way you would like.  Maybe democracy is not a pretty lady and I will definately accept her warts and all... to do otherwise might impede my right to call anyone that votes for a person based on the color that person's skin a fucking idiot that deserves to be at the low end of the socio lagess of this country.

Conjoin: To unite or be united in a relationship

I think I used it effectively. That is absolutely not what you said. You said: "the only reason to vote for anyone would be that you are of like opinion on social, moral, and economical values or at the very least closest to your opinions." That is a definitive statement, whether you meant it that way or not - that is what you wrote.

What you think of me is irrelevant. I've been called worse, by far better.





Wow.... gotten pretty snippy eh?   Actually, I do not think you irrelevant and actually have admired you for being rational and presenting your arguements well.

As for people being far better than me.   I am disappointed that you would be so quick to sling insults.  Maybe I should reassess my opinion.

I really don't think that I am one to be personally offensive to any one in this forum with maybe the exception being Michael Tee, and  he knows that much of the time that is born of frustration and that I like him.

crocat

  • Guest
Re: John Murtha Calls Western Pa. 'Redneck'
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2008, 04:23:51 PM »



Why thank you !

Though ,I don't feel that I really deserve such extreme flattery.
[/quote]

so you are the one that got him all pre-menstrual....

Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: John Murtha Calls Western Pa. 'Redneck'
« Reply #22 on: October 23, 2008, 04:30:16 PM »



Why thank you !

Though ,I don't feel that I really deserve such extreme flattery.

so you are the one that got him all pre-menstrual....
[/quote]

I expect so , I have been trying since waybackwhen and I hate to think all that effort was wasted.