Author Topic: The ACLU gets one right  (Read 1621 times)

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BT

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The ACLU gets one right
« on: June 21, 2010, 05:28:37 PM »
New Mexico v. Val Kilmer: Payback Time
by Stephanie Simon
Monday, June 21, 2010



Alleged trash talk is holding up a permit Val Kilmer wants for his ranch. (Associated Press)

Bygones are not always bygone amid the limestone cliffs and pinon groves of northern New Mexico.

When actor Val Kilmer recently applied for permits to turn his 6,000-acre ranch outside Santa Fe into an upscale bed-and-breakfast, several of his neighbors protested.

They weren't worried about traffic or noise or the prospect of intruding tourists. They were incensed about comments attributed to Mr. Kilmer in magazine articles dating to 2003 and 2005. And they didn't want him to get his way on the ranch unless he apologized.

"That's all he has to do, come and apologize," said Jose Garcia, who runs horses on a 50-acre ranch next to Mr. Kilmer's. "We're not intimidated by him."

Mr. Kilmer, who starred in "Tombstone," "The Doors," "Batman Forever" and, more recently, "MacGruber," was quoted -- misquoted, he says -- describing his rugged corner of New Mexico as "the homicide capital of the Southwest."

He went on to avow that "80% of the people in my county are drunk," requiring him to carry a gun for protection. That was in a 2003 interview with Rolling Stone.

In Esquire two years later, Mr. Kilmer was quoted -- again, misquoted, he says -- opining that he understands Vietnam better than its veterans, because most of them were "borderline criminal or poor ? wretched kids" who landed in the military because they "got beat up by their dads" or "couldn't finagle a scholarship."

At a hearing last month on Mr. Kilmer's application, a half-dozen locals and veterans demanded the star apologize before being allowed to welcome paying guests onto his Pecos River Ranch. The county attorney, Jesus Lopez, backed them up. Mr. Kilmer's quotes were "incendiary" and, dated as they may be, created a "clear and present danger threatening public safety," he said.

Taken aback by the outrage, the San Miguel County Commission opted to postpone debate on the permits. The next day, Alex Tafoya, the planning and zoning director, wrote Mr. Kilmer's ranch manager to explain that "your application will remain tabled until Mr. Kilmer appears personally before the Board of County Commissioners" to answer questions about his alleged remarks.

Commissioners later clarified they weren't demanding the star appear in person. That is beyond their legal powers. But they suggested it would help his cause if he'd stop by.

"It's a situation that's pretty volatile," said David Salazar, the commission chair. "The opportunity is there for him to come and set the record straight."

The flap attracted the New Mexico ACLU, which offered to represent Mr. Kilmer, arguing that whether or not he had actually talked trash about his county, he had every right to do so without fear that his permits would be held hostage.

Since the ACLU's entrance in the case several weeks ago, most key players have clammed up. Mr. Kilmer's ranch manager wouldn't comment; the county attorney said he stood by his remarks but wouldn't elaborate; and the ACLU didn't return calls and emails.

The commission has called a June 23 hearing. Officials say they expect Mr. Kilmer to be there.

Mr. Kilmer, who flirted last year with a run for governor, has lived in New Mexico for decades. Last year, he put his ranch up for sale for $33 million, but it failed to sell.

Pecos River Ranch websites dated 2005 and 2008 offer descriptions of the lodging, daily rates and advice for tourists (bring sunscreen and bug repellent; "kindly refrain" from taking Mr. Kilmer's photo should you spot the star). That suggests Mr. Kilmer has opened his lodge to paying guests in the past. But county officials say the ranch has never had the permits for it.

Mr. Salazar, the commission chair, acknowledges that, apology or not, the county is bound by law to consider the permit application on its merits. Still, he said, "you never know what might happen."

And some protesters vow to keep up the pressure, even if Mr. Kilmer does show up this week, ten-gallon hat in hand.

"An apology isn't good enough. He's insulted and hurt too many people," said Abran Tapia, a veteran and local resident. "People here want him out of New Mexico."

Write to Stephanie Simon at stephanie.simon@wsj.com

http://finance.yahoo.com/real-estate/article/109866/new-mexico-v-val-kilmer-payback-time?mod=realestate


Christians4LessGvt

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Re: The ACLU gets one right
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2010, 08:30:38 PM »
you ain't a kiddin everybody has clammed up

Val Kilmer's has his ranch web site down: "The site you requested is currently unavailable"
http://www.thepecosriverranch.com/trialend.asp

But Oooooops mr. kilmer too bad "cached" exists....lol

which clearly shows you been renting out rooms without permits

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:BRDocH-ITPIJ:www.thepecosriverranch.com/content.asp%3FCustComKey%3D115030%26CategoryKey%3D115031%26pn%3DPage%26DomName%3Dthepecosriverranch.com+val+kilmer+new+mexico+ranch&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: The ACLU gets one right
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2010, 09:52:57 PM »
Aging Action Hero Now a Bed-and-Breakfast Owner
Val Kilmer Wins Permit to Turn Ranch Into a Bed-and-Breakfast


By SHEILA MARIKAR

June 23, 2010



At a hearing today, commissioners in New Mexico's San Miguel County agreed to let the
actor turn his 5,970-acre Pecos River Ranch into a bed-and-breakfast after he apologized
to his neighbors for trash talking the state.

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/val-kilmer-aging-action-hero-now-bed-breakfast/story?id=10982492
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: The ACLU gets one right
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2010, 01:13:40 PM »
I fail to see what his opinions have to do with his fitness to run a B&B.

The ACLU is right on this one.

I imagine Kilmer was simply trying for attention when he badmouthed his county, but he has a right to say anything he wants to. People that hear him have a right to think he is a fool or not.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: The ACLU gets one right
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2010, 10:33:52 PM »
This is the west.

Smile when you say that,... pardner.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: The ACLU gets one right
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2010, 10:45:05 PM »
From the photo, it appears that Kilmer would have difficulty fitting into his Batman suit. He looks more like a Garfield type now.

But maybe the food at his B&B is really irresistible
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Stray Pup

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Re: The ACLU gets one right
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2010, 11:03:42 AM »
Okay maybe Kilmer's comments were foolish, I particularly have a problem with the alleged Vietnam comment.

But the idea that somebody's civil liberties are going to be violated unless they apologize?  Unbelievably unconstitutional.  Freedom of speech is designed to protect people who want to spout idiocies all day long and not be harangued for it (this particularly bothers me when it comes to the KKK and WBC, but in the immortal words of Voltaire: "I disagree with what you say but will defend to the death your right to say it."  At least I think it was Voltaire...)

Ironically if their concern was for the image of New Mexico this is undoubtedly going to backfire.  This is petty nonsense. 

I realize anecdotal evidence is a debating taboo, but I'm currently dealing with the kind of person who demands apologies and basically for you to bow at his feet for forgiveness.  They speak of "not being intimidated".  Well I'm glad that Mr. Kilmer was not intimidated.

Good job, ACLU.
"What's that word for skiving off work and giving it to somebody less important?"
"Delegate."

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: The ACLU gets one right
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2010, 12:36:34 PM »
Kilmer's statement was probably inaccurate, and if the place was so awful, why would he continue to live there? There are LOTS of rances he could buy all over the country with his millions.

I have this feeling that he was drunk, high or simply in a wacky mood when he said what he said, and if he were not a celebrity, no one would have taken him seriously.

It is one thing for him to be FORCED to retract a statement, it is another is he genuinely feels that he said something stupid. Only he knows for sure.

The ACLU is right about this.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

kimba1

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Re: The ACLU gets one right
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2010, 01:41:19 PM »
hmm

I my hands are tied about saying anything wrong about val. I live in S.F. and it`s a love hate relationship. I have called my town a murderville ,gang central, big a$$ toilet. but it`s still home to me.

I`ll bet alots of people are in the same boat.

Plane

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Re: The ACLU gets one right
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2010, 09:50:53 PM »
Let me tell you about Georgia.

Humidity is 110% on a dry day.

Population thanks God for Mississippi as a bumper from the bottom of all stats.

Pollen count ranges from 400ppm to need for a shovel to extracate car.

Gnats are numourous and affectionate.

Brown Thrasher is state bird ,Mousquitos thrash brown thrasher handily.

Fire ants like it here and may soon elect the legislature.

Worst of all..... Yankies all over the place , they just keep comin on down, someday we will learn what is attracting them and attach suficient repellent.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: The ACLU gets one right
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2010, 09:03:08 PM »
You failed to mention the kudzu. Georgia seems to be covered with kudzu. It seems to be even worse in Alabama.


I also have a love/hate relationship with Miami. These days, with the temperature over 95ºF every day, it's often on the hate side. Still, I like the beaches and the public library. Public transit is not so great overall, but it is great to at least places I like to go, such as the downtown and a couple of  libraries. Traffic has improved. I was sure I was going to hate the idea of making I-95 half toll and half free, but it has made traffic a lot better for everyone by confining the lane switchers (and their accidents) to a couple of toll express lanes. I have yet to pay a toll, or even to get a transponder.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."