DebateGate

General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Mucho on May 10, 2007, 01:15:17 PM

Title: There will be a ton more of these flipoids when the Iraqi killers come home
Post by: Mucho on May 10, 2007, 01:15:17 PM
 
Crash probed as deliberate

In 2001, driver tried to get police to kill him during standoff

By J. Harry Jones
STAFF WRITER

May 10, 2007

(http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20070510/images/route280.jpg)

POWAY – Sheriff's deputies are investigating whether a head-on collision that seriously injured two people yesterday morning on state Route 67 was the result of an intentional act by a man who six years ago tried to commit suicide by cop.


JOHN GASTALDO / Union-Tribune
Elizabeth Miranda consoled her son Oscar yesterday on the shoulder of state Route 67 after his pickup was hit by a Toyota Tacoma that collided head on with a Hummer moments before, severely injuring two motorists. The Toyota also hit a third car on a stretch north of Chapparal Way.
Authorities said the crash, which closed Route 67 for three hours, was caused by 60-year-old Ronald Paul Boord, whose Toyota Tacoma collided with a black Hummer in the oncoming lane.
Boord and the driver of the Hummer were seriously injured in the crash, which also involved two other vehicles.

Poway sheriff's Deputy Robert Gibson said it appears the collision was either the result of driving under the influence – several medications were found in Boord's truck, including methadone – was intentional or both. If intentional, it would become a criminal case, he said.

On April 30, 2001, Boord, a Vietnam veteran, shot up his van in Encinitas, then held a gun to his head for three hours while negotiating with a SWAT team. He wanted to be killed by SWAT snipers to end the mental torture he suffered from flashbacks, according to court documents.


Union-Tribune file photo
Ronald Paul Boord, who authorities said caused yesterday's collision, is seen in a 2001 standoff with police in Encinitas.
Then a Cardiff resident and avid surfer, Boord, known in the surfing community as “Captain Ron,” told deputies during the standoff he wanted them to shoot him because his Christian faith prevented him from committing suicide.
Boord served just over a year as a Marine sniper in the Vietnam War and suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder and bouts of depression, according to court documents.

His attorney in 2001 said Boord was depressed partly because a back injury prevented him from surfing.

In addition to flashbacks, Boord was haunted by nightmares, according to a probation officer who described him as “a belated casualty of the Vietnam War.”

Boord twice emptied a .45-caliber handgun into his camouflage-painted van parked outside his apartment, then waited for neighbors to call authorities. He finally surrendered after talking to a SWAT commander, and was later placed on three years' probation.

Yesterday's crash happened about 10:15 a.m., authorities said. Boord was headed toward Ramona in the northbound lanes when his pickup swerved into oncoming traffic as it rounded a curve about a half-mile north of Chaparral Way.

The Tacoma struck the left front of a black Hummer, causing serious damage to both vehicles.


The Tacoma then continued down the road in the wrong lane, striking two other vehicles, including a pickup driven by Oscar Miranda, a student heading from his home in Ramona to Mesa College.
“The Tacoma hit the Hummer head-on, then fishtailed,” Miranda said.

Miranda said he was able to stop a moment before the Tacoma ran into his truck. He was not hurt.

The driver of the Hummer, whose name was not released, was taken by ambulance to Pomerado Hospital in Poway with moderate to serious injuries. Boord, who lives in Ramona, had to be extracted from his pickup and was taken by helicopter to Palomar Medical Center in Escondido suffering from serious internal injuries and a broken leg.

Whatever the cause of yesterday's accident, it was the latest in an increasing number on Route 67 in recent years.

Since the beginning of 2005, 23 people have died on the road between Lakeside and Ramona, parts of which are narrow and curvy. In the previous five years, there were 21 deaths.

From Jan. 1, 2003, to Dec. 31, 2005, there were 860 accidents. Figures for 2006 and 2007 were not available.

This month, a public awareness campaign was launched by the California Department of Transportation to encourage drivers to obey the speed limit on Route 67 – unsafe speed has been an element in most of the accidents – and the California Highway Patrol has recently increased its patrols.

Caltrans spokesman Edward Cartagena said the highway has remained unchanged over the past decade. He attributed the rise in serious accidents to bad driving, additional traffic caused by Ramona's growing population and possibly an increase in casino traffic. Recently, some people have lobbied Caltrans to install concrete barriers in the center of parts of the road to prevent head-on collisions. Greg Payne, whose 21-year-old son, Casey, died Nov. 13 in a head-on collision not far from yesterday's crash, said a barrier might have saved his son's life.

But Cartagena said studies show such barriers can cause more accidents.

“They would prevent head-on collisions, but we would have more hits as cars slam into a barrier, then a mountainside,” he said.

Cartagena said options are being analyzed but that Caltrans is not going “to make a rash decision.”


J. Harry Jones: (760) 737-7579; jharry.jones@uniontrib.com
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Title: Re: There will be a ton more of these flipoids when the Iraqi killers come home
Post by: BT on May 10, 2007, 01:30:21 PM
Way to support the troops knute.

for every 1 vet that acts out ptsd 100 don't.



Title: Re: There will be a ton more of these flipoids when the Iraqi killers come home
Post by: Michael Tee on May 10, 2007, 02:16:09 PM
<<for every 1 vet that acts out ptsd 100 don't. >>

I'm sure the victims of that one vet will be pleased to hear that.  They probably hated America anyway. 

And where do you get the 1:100 ratio?  If you counted domestic abuse that never surfaces outside the family circle, I'd put it in the 1:3 or 1:5 ratio.  Only a guess, of course.  Like yours.
Title: Re: There will be a ton more of these flipoids when the Iraqi killers come home
Post by: sirs on May 10, 2007, 02:18:09 PM
Way to support the troops knute.   for every 1 vet that acts out ptsd 100 don't.

Knute just needs to be a little more honest, like Tee, and basically make clear how the U.S. military is just a bunch of low hanging fruit thug killers
Title: Re: There will be a ton more of these flipoids when the Iraqi killers come home
Post by: Michael Tee on May 10, 2007, 02:28:39 PM
<<Knute just needs to be a little more honest, like Tee, and basically make clear how the U.S. military is just a bunch of low hanging fruit thug killers>>

Huh?  I thought they were humanitarian social workers and healers of the sick.  Don't they spread light and joy everywhere they appear?
Title: Re: There will be a ton more of these flipoids when the Iraqi killers come home
Post by: sirs on May 10, 2007, 02:38:36 PM
<<Knute just needs to be a little more honest, like Tee, and basically make clear how the U.S. military is just a bunch of low hanging fruit thug killers>>

Huh?  I thought they were humanitarian social workers and healers of the sick.  Don't they spread light and joy everywhere they appear?

No, actually the defend this country from foreign enemies, which basically includes killing as many of them as possible.  Just about every country's military has that as their job description.  You must have missed the memo
Title: Re: There will be a ton more of these flipoids when the Iraqi killers come home
Post by: BT on May 10, 2007, 02:47:30 PM
Quote
And where do you get the 1:100 ratio?  If you counted domestic abuse that never surfaces outside the family circle, I'd put it in the 1:3 or 1:5 ratio.  Only a guess, of course.  Like yours.

Strictly anecdotal. I must know at least 150 VN era vets. Not a one of them has gone on a rampage.

Domestic violence is not limited to PTSD sufferers. I would not be surprised if the vast amount of domestic violence perps never put on a uniform.

This story is just a backdoor slap at those who served.

Title: Re: There will be a ton more of these flipoids when the Iraqi killers come home
Post by: Michael Tee on May 10, 2007, 02:52:05 PM
<<No, actually the defend this country from foreign enemies . . . >>

Well they're doing a great job of defending your country from Iraqi foreign enemies, not one of whom has attacked the country since their invasion began.  Come to think of it, not one of them has attacked the country before the invasion began either, so maybe it isn't such a great job after all.

<< . . . which basically includes killing as many of them as possible. >>

Yeah, as the mountains of dead Iraqi women and children will easily attest.  Those enemies are pretty deadly, especially the seven elementary school children, the most recent additions to the Great American Heap o' Bods.  

<<Just about every country's military has that as their job description.  You must have missed the memo>>

What I missed was the part in the memo about helping to steal ther countries' oil.  THAT seems to be the biggest part of this Army's job description.
Title: Re: There will be a ton more of these flipoids when the Iraqi killers come home
Post by: Michael Tee on May 10, 2007, 02:54:30 PM
<<Strictly anecdotal. I must know at least 150 VN era vets. Not a one of them has gone on a rampage. >>

And I guess if they smacked their wives and kids around, you'd be the first person they'd report back to.
Title: Re: There will be a ton more of these flipoids when the Iraqi killers come home
Post by: Mucho on May 10, 2007, 03:17:22 PM
Way to support the troops knute.

for every 1 vet that acts out ptsd 100 don't.





Actually, I support these guys much more thab your Bushifuehrer . http://www.knoxviews.com/node/4452 (http://www.knoxviews.com/node/4452)

Almost every Viet Vet I know is fucked up in one way or another. Most are spaced out whackos like this guy , but some suffer from leukemia and / or prostate cancer from agent orange like my brother-in-law.
Title: Re: There will be a ton more of these flipoids when the Iraqi killers come home
Post by: sirs on May 10, 2007, 03:32:04 PM
<<No, actually the defend this country from foreign enemies . . . >>

Well they're doing a great job of defending your country from Iraqi foreign enemies,

Actually, that'd be Islamic terrorists, who are currently fighting ours and Iraqi's military, in Iraq.  A not so subtle distinction, I might add


<<Just about every country's military has that as their job description.  You must have missed the memo>>

What I missed was the part in the memo about helping to steal ther countries' oil.  THAT seems to be the biggest part of this Army's job description.

LOL.....needed a good Tee joke of the day
Title: Re: There will be a ton more of these flipoids when the Iraqi killers come home
Post by: BT on May 10, 2007, 05:46:35 PM
Quote
And I guess if they smacked their wives and kids around, you'd be the first person they'd report back to.

It's not that hard to pick up fear from spouses and kids. So yeah i would probably have a good inkling that is going on.
Title: Re: There will be a ton more of these flipoids when the Iraqi killers come home
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on May 10, 2007, 05:56:23 PM
The troops are victims of a stupid foreign policy. They get screwed by Juniorbush and EvilCheney, and they in turn, come home and take it out on the rest of society.


The cure to this phenomena is ELECT NO MORE ASSWIPE WARMONGERING REPUBLICANS.
Title: Re: There will be a ton more of these flipoids when the Iraqi killers come home
Post by: BT on May 10, 2007, 06:41:35 PM
Quote
The cure to this phenomena is ELECT NO MORE ASSWIPE WARMONGERING REPUBLICANS.

That wouldn't have helped this guy. VN was a dem war.

Going all the way back to Truman and his aid to the french.

Title: Re: There will be a ton more of these flipoids when the Iraqi killers come home
Post by: Michael Tee on May 10, 2007, 06:56:02 PM
<<It's not that hard to pick up fear from spouses and kids. So yeah i would probably have a good inkling that is going on. >>

Wow you must be a very sensitive guy.  I understand that often teachers, physicians, relatives and co-workers fail to pick it up. 
Title: Re: There will be a ton more of these flipoids when the Iraqi killers come home
Post by: domer on May 10, 2007, 07:24:53 PM
This is a problem, primarily, of the mental health system albeit this man's entry point would have been through the VA network. I happen to believe a few things relevant to Knute's blood libel against the services. First, a strong U.S. Military is vital to the world's health. The excursion in Iraq was wrong, ham-handed, maybe imperialistically inspired, but we are there and are now obligated to make the best of a bad situation. All individuals who serve in the Army or Marines, in-country or out-, deserve our honor and respect -- til lost by behavior unbecoming a serviceman -- and get it from me as a matter of presumption. Any pre-existing or theater-created mental illness is a tragedy for all concerned. Adequate health resources should be a given. If one slips through the cracks, the individuals who let him slip, if any, should be held to account. Violent acting out by combat veterans, clearly a tiny minority of all those who serve, should not be tolerated under any circumstances, nor, to my mind, forgiven without sufficient atonement, if at all. But tarnishing the services generally is absurd, and renouncing their carrying out orders in an atmosphere of controversy does not, by the nature of things, detract from the honor due most.
Title: Re: There will be a ton more of these flipoids when the Iraqi killers come home
Post by: BT on May 10, 2007, 09:12:30 PM
Quote
Wow you must be a very sensitive guy.  I understand that often teachers, physicians, relatives and co-workers fail to pick it up. 

I'm sure they do.

Would you notice something amiss with your friend and their family? Do you notice if your friend is depressed or drinking more than normal? Maybe a little quick with the temper?

I have a friend who can tell what type of day i have had simply by how i say hello.

That happen to you?




Title: Re: There will be a ton more of these flipoids when the Iraqi killers come home
Post by: Lanya on May 10, 2007, 09:20:45 PM
People are scarred by abuse and bad things that happen to them, traumatic things. They aren't all veterans.  Many are children, wives, husbands, just regular people who have a scar.  The troops who return shouldn't be vilified for their service. You know better than this, Knute. 
Title: Re: There will be a ton more of these flipoids when the Iraqi killers come home
Post by: Mucho on May 10, 2007, 09:33:35 PM
People are scarred by abuse and bad things that happen to them, traumatic things. They aren't all veterans.  Many are children, wives, husbands, just regular people who have a scar.  The troops who return shouldn't be vilified for their service. You know better than this, Knute. 

I am not vilifying them . I am one of them. I am vilifying those that turn some good people to evil killers. Some are heroes , like me!   ;D