Author Topic: question to teachers and anybody interested  (Read 2994 times)

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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: question to teachers and anybody interested
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2010, 02:27:04 PM »
I did not say that I was for teaching only geniuses. Perhaps I have had maybe three such students in 32 years at the where I retired.

English Lit and History professors that I know are every bit as enthusiastic about their subjects as accounting or physics professors. The lack of enthusiasm comes from the lack of jobs in each of these fields: a person with a PhD in English Lit or History normally has one choice in his/her field, that of teaching English Lit or History in higher education. Undergrads in English can teach HS and might do professional writing, like grants or advertising.But one is much less limited in business and even science.

With a PhD in Spanish, I worked part time as a translator, I helped write and edit a couple of magazines, and I did some tutoring, but there was certainly not enough money in doing that to support myself.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: question to teachers and anybody interested
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2010, 07:41:24 PM »
John Paul Jones thought that Navy officers should be required to have fluency in three languages and competancy in engineering , navigation, etc... he was for diseminateing usefull knoledge amoung the enlisted too.


If our sailors and soldiers are ignorant are we going to be weaker?

If our voters are ignorant are we more prone to elect charlatans ?

Michael Tee

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Re: question to teachers and anybody interested
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2010, 09:32:25 PM »
<<If our voters are ignorant are we more prone to elect charlatans ?>>

LOL. 

NOW
he's asking.

BT

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Re: question to teachers and anybody interested
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2010, 09:46:17 PM »
<<If our voters are ignorant are we more prone to elect charlatans ?>>

LOL. 

NOW
he's asking.

Would organizations that facilitate this dumbing down of the electorate be guilty of domestic sabotage or partners in achieving a national goal?
 

Michael Tee

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Re: question to teachers and anybody interested
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2010, 10:05:22 PM »
<<Would organizations that facilitate this dumbing down of the electorate be guilty of domestic sabotage or partners in achieving a national goal?>>

I think you're probably lumping a lot of organizations together in <<organizations that facilitate this dumbing down>> and you're also assuming the the dumbing down is due to some organized effort.  As far as I can see, there isn't any "Coalition for a Dumber America" tirelessly working to produce a generation of morons, although I guess at times the Kansas legislature or the Texas Schoolbook Commission seem to come pretty close.

Also, your terms are pretty subjective - - is it "domestic sabotage" to demand that public schools run on fundamentalist Christian principles?  The fundies would see it as improving education, the liberals as the highway to hell.

My own view is that it's just a question of priorities.  The people who really run your country through the clownish fakes whose "election" and "re-election" they engineer know which way the country has to go and don't brook any opposition.  I don't think they're for a dumber America per se, but they understand that "the people" are a hell of a lot easier to bend to their will the less truly educated they are, and so they set priorities that obviously favour the military-industrial complex and aren't bothered by the fact that such priorities will necessarily impact negatively on the spread of higher education to the masses.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: question to teachers and anybody interested
« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2010, 10:29:01 PM »
We do have all those stupid teabaggers who complain because they have to "Press One for English", like the possibility that if they forgot their numbers they MIGHT have to hear something in Spanish, and that would be such a huge hardship that perhaps their cerebelli would combust and their pointy heads would explode.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

BT

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Re: question to teachers and anybody interested
« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2010, 10:35:45 PM »
Quote
I think you're probably lumping a lot of organizations together in <<organizations that facilitate this dumbing down>> and you're also assuming the the dumbing down is due to some organized effort.  As far as I can see, there isn't any "Coalition for a Dumber America" tirelessly working to produce a generation of morons, although I guess at times the Kansas legislature or the Texas Schoolbook Commission seem to come pretty close.

Then let me clarify. If one group tries to set standards for quality education measured by some sort of proving mechanism and the other organization says that you can't set standards because teaching is an art and therefore subjective and that any proving mechanism would be unfair and insulting to credentialed instructors which group would you say is engaging in domestic sabotage and which is partnering in achieving a national goal.

And as a corollary in your opinion is an educated citizenry a worthy national goal?

By the way, i disagree with your theory that there is but one oligarchy that controls the country. If one were to subscribe to such a theory, my guess is that there would be competing oligarchies that hope to control the spoils if their candidates are victorious. So in that sense it would make a difference who wins.




BT

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Re: question to teachers and anybody interested
« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2010, 10:38:09 PM »
We do have all those stupid teabaggers who complain because they have to "Press One for English", like the possibility that if they forgot their numbers they MIGHT have to hear something in Spanish, and that would be such a huge hardship that perhaps their cerebelli would combust and their pointy heads would explode.

English as the national language has been an issue long before the advent of the Tea Party Movement.

Immigration and assimilation was an issue long before the Tea Party Movement.


Xavier_Onassis

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Re: question to teachers and anybody interested
« Reply #23 on: May 30, 2010, 10:44:42 PM »
Nonetheless, the Tea Partiers have mentioned this as a major irritant. The Tea Party has elements of the Know-Nothings, the Populists, George Wallace's American Independent Party and Ross Perot's Reform Party.

Spanish language roadsigns and telephone messages are both inexpensive and useful. I fail to see how they could be irritating to anyone but a true bigot. The fact that we have had such bigotry in past years does not change the validity of what I said. I did not say that the Teabaggers invented this. They do not seem to have invented anything: they are mostly against any sort of change, but that is hardly original.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

BT

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Re: question to teachers and anybody interested
« Reply #24 on: May 30, 2010, 11:10:41 PM »
The Tea Party movement is about deficit spending and fiscal conservatism. Any other issue is auxiliary.



kimba1

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Re: question to teachers and anybody interested
« Reply #25 on: May 30, 2010, 11:30:20 PM »
lack of jobs in eng. lit/history?

eng. lit and philosophy minor is quite useful in law.

history is quite useful in research.

am I making the wrong connections?

Michael Tee

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Re: question to teachers and anybody interested
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2010, 10:00:41 AM »
<<Then let me clarify. If one group tries to set standards for quality education measured by some sort of proving mechanism and the other organization says that you can't set standards because teaching is an art and therefore subjective and that any proving mechanism would be unfair and insulting to credentialed instructors which group would you say is engaging in domestic sabotage and which is partnering in achieving a national goal.>>

Thanks for the clarification.  I don't think either group is engaging in domestic sabotage because they are both well-intentioned.  This is a complex issue and I don't think you can lay down standards because this is not an engineering problem like making tires.  Even if it can be called "social engineering," that's only a metaphor which serves to mask the underlying complexity.  Teaching is an art just like medicine is an art.  The problem seems to be that while the trial lawyers have ensured a reasonably high standard of medical and hospital practice, there doesn't seem to be any way for trial lawyers to make headway in reforming the educational system.  The same complexities that stand in the way of the imposition of engineering-style standards also stand in the way of convincing any jury that School Board A is the reason why Student B is a moron, whereas there is enough of science mixed into the art of medicine that some issues are capable of a scientific analysis that will satisfy a jury.  I believe teaching reform has to come mainly from within the profession.

If standards are not the answer, the solution has to be the production of better teachers through a combination of increasing salaries to attract better candidates, longer and more rigorous teacher training, including lifetime learning requirements, minimum hours of yearly seminars and conferences, more intensive research in pedagogy, etc.  The whole thing is a function of money - - the more money you put into a well-planned system, the better the results to be obtained.  But of course there are other priorities claiming on the same public funds, chiefly of course those of the military-industrial complex.  It's a lot easier to scare the moronic American electorate of a bunch of Communists or crazy Arabs or whatever the Next Big Threat is gonna be than it is of another generation of morons just like themselves.

Where are the current obstacles?  There's no question in my mind but that it's a combination of short-sighted unionized resistance to the disciplining or firing of unfit teachers, cheap-ass school boards, reactionary and/or religious interference in school curricula and right-wing political interference are combining to retard progress in American education.

<<And as a corollary in your opinion is an educated citizenry a worthy national goal?>>

Yeah, at least then you wouldn't have to deal with candidates like Bush and Palin.  The oligarchy would have to produce more intelligent figureheads and front-men.

<<By the way, i disagree with your theory that there is but one oligarchy that controls the country. If one were to subscribe to such a theory, my guess is that there would be competing oligarchies that hope to control the spoils if their candidates are victorious. So in that sense it would make a difference who wins. >>

You're right, there are competing oligarchies.  Exporters and importers.  Finance and commerce.  Commerce and industry.  Highways (including auto manufacturers and the oil industry) versus railways and airlines.  Sorry if I oversimplified.  At the same time, there seems to be some kind of consolidation going on, within each competing group and between groups.  The wealth of the nation is being concentrated into fewer and fewer hands.  The share of the top 5% or 10% keeps growing.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: question to teachers and anybody interested
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2010, 11:20:24 AM »
lack of jobs in eng. lit/history?

eng. lit and philosophy minor is quite useful in law.

history is quite useful in research.

am I making the wrong connections?
=========================================================
You are on target here, but you won't get a job as a lawyer without a law degree.

History is also useful in law, but the usefulness of a history degree depends on the subject of the research. I do not know that pharmacology research would be greatly enhanced by a degree in Medieval History.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

kimba1

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Re: question to teachers and anybody interested
« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2010, 11:49:13 AM »
the subject itself may not but the methedology would.
I used to work in a library and at the law firm I seem to be able to find missing files really fast.
the filing system is totally different but the fact I used to do this kind of work at a greater level was very helpful.

I think medieval history is helpful as a reference base for information of terms for lawyers maybe.
in pharmacology I draw a blank.


Plane

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Re: question to teachers and anybody interested
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2010, 12:39:18 PM »
<<If our voters are ignorant are we more prone to elect charlatans ?>>

LOL. 

NOW
he's asking.

Would organizations that facilitate this dumbing down of the electorate be guilty of domestic sabotage or partners in achieving a national goal?
 



Ouch!

Did you have an organisation in particular in mind?