DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Xavier_Onassis on September 24, 2015, 12:15:01 PM
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Trump claims that he wants to make America Great Again. So that means that he believes that at some time, America reached a ak of greatness, and that is the target we must shoot for.
But he does not say when that Time of Maximum Greatness was? Was a time of peace? Was it a time in which there were no homeless? Was it a time in which more people owned their own homes? Was it a time of less discrimination?
Can Trump give us a date for this joyful day?
Can Trump by which Trump will attain surpass that day in greatness? Can anyone?
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At this stage, pretty much anything is greater
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1945
(http://www.ww2australia.gov.au/vevp/images/surrender/019122_150.jpg)
http://www.ww2australia.gov.au/vevp/surrender.html
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In 1945, the country was broke and in deep debt, we had segregation and lynchings in the South.
In 2008, we were in far worse shape. There were two wars and the market had collapsed and we were at the beginning of the worst recession in decades.
Someone ought to ask Trump this question.
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in 2015, more people have left the job market, than any other time in modern history, our debt is completely out of control, more and more people in poverty and on food stamps than at any other time in our history, our status in foreign affairs has zero credibility, and crony capitalism is rampant in DC
Someone out to ask Clinton this question.......4 more years of that??
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looks like Trump has many that agree with him!
Bloomberg Poll:
A national survey finds that 72 percent of Americans
say their country isn't as great as it once was
http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-09-24/most-agree-with-trump-on-america-s-lost-greatness-bloomberg-poll-finds
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Ask them when things were better, and why.
At any given moment a lot of people will say that things are worse now than ever before. This is because this is an emotional, not a rational response.
Every Jehovah's witless starts off hie spiel telling us that things are bad and getting worse.
It is easy to get agreement on how things are worse, but this is because bad things that happened yesterday are always more vivid that those that happened a dozen years ago. People say this because of the way memory works.
The crime rate has plummeted in the US, but most people think is is worse now than ever and getting worse. They think this because they actually see more vivid crimes now than ever before... on TV.
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Ask them when things were better, and why.
At any given moment a lot of people will say that things are worse now than ever before. This is because this is an emotional, not a rational response.
All the references to 2015 aren't emotional.....they're facts. It's also why you can take any desginated time/year, and nit pik all the negatives, and proclaim how "horrible" it was, if you conveniently omit all the postives that occured at the same time.
In other words, you've answered your own question posed to Trump....that there is no "date" he could provide to give an answer to your crafted question. Any such date, you could pick apart with how "bad it was", like you did with Plane.....using emotion to feed those responses
The crime rate has plummeted in the US, but most people think is is worse now than ever and getting worse. They think this because they actually see more vivid crimes now than ever before... on TV.
Wow....& with the proliferation of firearms, fancy that fact. Thanks professor 8)
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More guns and you still think the country is less great?
If America WAS great and is no longer great, a person who wants to make it great AGAIN should either be able to tell us when it was at its peak of greatness, or shut the fuck up.
It is a good slogan for people who do not think.
That includes most people.
Of course, the Witlesses believe that the good times will come when Jeezus returns, perhaps next Thursday... Get on board, li'l chillun...
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More guns and you still think the country is less great?
Absolutely....and you even helped reinforce it, by referencing how crime is plummeting (your words), despite more guns. Apples and oranges, since the country as a whole is coming apart financially, and with the crushing of the middle class by this President's my way or the highway policies
And regardless what date/time anyone would provide as a time of greatness, as you helped demonstrate as well, any time will have negatives, that you can emotionally pound. So need for anyone to shut up....your answer is that there is no answer that will satsisfy the likes of you
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First off, the lower crime rate is because there are fewer males between the ages of 18 and 40 in the population: there are fewer to start with and then y more are locked up.
The slogan Make American Great Again assumes that America has lost its greatness. So it will be necessary to identify what its greatness was. Clearly something that was lost. One thing that was lost was the steady rise in income of the middle class: this was lost in the 1970's, but it took a long time to realize it.
I hardly think that Trump has any clue how to cause middle class incomes to rise again. One way would to prevent the rich from hogging so much for themselves, but I donlt see that being part of Trump's plan.
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In relative terms 1945 was a high water mark.
None were stronger , none had come through the war with less ruined and lost.
Some good decisions were made in these days, integration and civil rights finally got on the right track and began to improve, if there was ever a period with more improvement in US civil rights than 1945-1965 I don't know what period this would be. The legacy of Eleanor Roosevelt, Harry Truman , and many others.
While in possession of all the worlds super weapons, the only fleet of long range bombers, the biggest navy afloat, the best equipped army the world had ever seen and the strongest production of materiel and food on the planet:- The US ramped down military spending and did not exploit this situation for anything worse than the establishment of the UN.
Since then Europe has healed from its wounds of WWII and is in some respects just as strong and productive. China has healed some from its losses in WWII and healed a bit from its losses in the era of "Great Leap Forward" is a superpower again after centuries of being a weak sister, attractive to empire builders.
To evaluate the question in the context of this planet, the end of WWII was a time of the USA being so strong relative to the rest of the world , that it was by the sufferance and assistance of the US that any other part of the world recovered.
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Slogans are slogans, just like "Hope & Change". Its the actions that will determine how authentic & sincere they intended their slogans to be. But its bogus to claim that there's some "date" where we were great, and without some date, any goals of trying to return us to some level of greatness, is supposedly some non-starter
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Most people in 2008 wanted an improvement in health care, especially doing away with barring people from insurance that excluded people based on preexisting conditions. They wanted an end to the wars that Juniorbush got us into.
Hope and Change made sense.
"Make American Great Again" does not make sense.
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Ignoring of course, that MOST people in 2008 did NOT support Obamacare, you can rationalize all you want, meaning that its just as "accurate" to rationalize that based on how Obama has screwed this country, in so many ways, Making America great again, makes all the sense in the world, to most people in in 2015
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America was greater when the US Gvt was not deficit spending in the trillions
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
America was greater when 1 in 4 children under the age of 18 were not being raised without a father.
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First off, .....
.....first off, you have no fricken clue as to the specifics of why violent crime is plummeting. You spout some #'s and immediately make that the only applicable variable. The lower crime rate can JUST as easily be connected to more firearms in responsible law abiding hands. That can also be reinforced by the fact that those areas with stricter gun controls, that make it far more difficult for the law abiding to own/carry a firearm, have seen their crime rates rise, despite it plummeting nationally. Point being, you rhetorically shot your own foot off, when you yourself highlighted the plummeting violent crime #'s despite a proliferation of legal gun onwership
The slogan Make American Great Again assumes that America has lost its greatness.
And when you ask a majority of Americans.....THEY'LL AGREE. Our country has had many eras of greatness, the latter years of Reagan & the early years of Clinton, were pretty stellar. Our contributions to ending WWII were pretty stellar. Our bringing the end to legalized slavery was pretty stellar. In all those eras, anyone can fine things that weren't "so stellar", the Civil War inparticular, where we lost more American lives to war, than any other war, before or after. But that was a necessary war, that included much loss of life, but wasn't terrorist-centric in any way
So NO, it does not require a specific date, because as you've helped demonstrate, any era of greatness, is going to have some negatives. And while I have no idea as to what specific policies Trump might bring to the table to help out ALL Americans, not just the middle class, what we ALL do know, is that the current policies of the left, are decimating the middle class
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I think that what is wrecking American society is the consumer culture, where people are trained to know the price if everything but do not understand the value of anything.
The reality that we see on the TV is not the reality of life in this country. The constant interruptions of commercials lead to attention deficit disorder.
This is not a matter of left or right, it is a matter of traditional patterns of culture being replaced by a phony consumer culture.
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What you think, vs what is reality, is often 2 very different animals. Our culture is a predominant "me, me,me...now, now, now" form of materialism, but that doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of why so many are no longer even looking for work, or the massive financial obligations/mandates pushed upon the middle & upper classes, by Democrat policies. The upper classes can afford it. The middle class can't, and that's the destruction I'm referring to
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Most people in 2008 wanted an improvement in health care, especially doing away with barring people from insurance that excluded people based on preexisting conditions. They wanted an end to the wars that Juniorbush got us into.
Hope and Change made sense.
"Make American Great Again" does not make sense.
I wish I could have again the insurance coverage I had in 2007, and at the same price.
Since 2008 I have had exactly one raise , the minimum allowed in contract.
You might think President Obama is terrific , but he isn't your stingy employer.
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(http://s30.postimg.org/q2ge5q2j5/149.jpg)
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OUCH....and that doesn't even take into account our current nosedive in credibility & standing, with our foreign allies
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That would be because our standing with allies is MUCH BETTER than when Juniorbush was president.
There is not one damned thing Trump would or could do to improve any of this.
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Must have missed the part regarding the nosedive.....that being our standing with our foreign allies can't get much lower currently....as in it was far higher under Bush. We actually fully supported our allies, back then
Not to mention there are a myriad of things, ANY President could to to improve that. I think what you may be referring to is how much more cozy we are with our enemies, like Iran. So, yea, in that case, our standing with Iran is MUCH BETTER than when Juniorbush was president
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Obama has alienated Middle east allie Israel....
Obama was caught spying on Merkel and other European and non-European allies.
Hillary and Obama tried a "re-set" with Russia which has failed miserably.
Egypt barely speaks with us after Obama tried to get the Muslim Brotherhood in power.
Libya is a disaster after Obama helped get rid of their leaders
The Saudis are pissed too
Obama was unable to rally anybody for real help with his fake line in the sand in Syria.
The list goes on and on....
Obama has been a disaster on the world scene for advocating US positions
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I would say that America is already great in some ways and not in others.
This is a simplistic slogan of no real meaning to anyone capable of analyzing it.
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You mean like "Hope & Change"