DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Xavier_Onassis on July 23, 2015, 03:47:42 PM
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http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/07/22/1404628/-Dashcam-footage-clearly-shows-the-real-reason-Sandra-Bland-changed-lanes-in-the-first-place?detail=email# (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/07/22/1404628/-Dashcam-footage-clearly-shows-the-real-reason-Sandra-Bland-changed-lanes-in-the-first-place?detail=email#)
It looks as thought she merely saw the cop behind her and moved into the slower lane to let him by.
She was endangering no one. Had the cop not made a uey and chased her down, she would have done nothing illegal.
Sounds like a case of DWB and perhaps a cop needing to fill his ticket quota.
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That's exactly what I already been said, as far as she probably was moving over when she saw him behind her ::) And I responded by saying I would have simply given her a warning. For WHATEVER reason he decided to giver a citation. She should have taken it, then written up a strongly worded complaint, and that would have been that. She should have put out the cigarette, then no more than 1 mile away, lit up another. She should have gotten out of the car, when he lawfully told her to. A whole lot of shouldas, but she chose not to. Even if she was right, in which I think she was, she was wrong to resist they way she did
But that's not the issue any longer. The issue is what led to her death. THAT's what doesn't smell right
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The cop saw her and decided to make a U turn to follow her. Why? No cop here would have bothered to stop her. She was driving safely, endangering no one at all. He was so far behind her that there is no way he could say that he "cut her off".
It looks like he spotted her DWB Driving While Black and decided that she would be an ideal person to help him fulfill his ticket quota for the month. Notice that he clearly exceeded the 20mph speed limit to catch up with her.
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Your ridiculous fantasies of why he pulled her over aside, the fact is for WHATEVER reason, BOTH of them behaved irrationally. The more important issue at this time is how did she die. Suicide requires a reason....even if irrational. Homicide requires a motive. An investigation needs to produce some facts to support one vs the other
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Well, at least we agree that she did not deserve to die. Even though she was smoking in the presence of the law and exercising her right to free speech and even being Black.
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NO ONE DESERVES TO DIE....OUTSIDE OF CRIMINALS WHO HAVE MURDERED OR TERRORISTS WHO KILL. ::)
News flash, free speech doesn't trump lawful instructions by law enforcement
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You are the one who wants to arm yourself against oppression, and yet you are all for obeying every whim of every cop, no matter how dumb it might be.
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Yea. I now look forward to you providing a plethora of examples of "dumb commands" by a police officer analogus to doing push-ups
(shall I cue the silence now?)
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The cop saw her and decided to make a U turn to follow her. Why?
Because she ran a stop sign.
I saw the full uncut video yesterday but have been unable to find it today.
The same officer pulled over another African American woman moments before.
The woman cooperated and he gave her a warning.
As the officer was pulling away from the first stop he saw the woman run a stop sign.
When he pulled her over he said "failure to signal", but the reason he u-turned and went after her was the stop sign.
Let me see if I can find the video I saw.
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She was driving safely, endangering no one at all.
And then there is reality and once again XO gets the facts wrong.
The video below starts out when the officer is issuing a warning to another driver.
The first driver fully cooperates and drives away....and is alive today. (hello?)
As the officer begins to pull away after the warning stop...
At the 1:14 second mark....you can see Sandra Bland run the stop sign and turn.
The officer sees her run the stop sign and he u-turns it so he can pull her over.
He tells her he pulled her over for failure to signal lane change....
When it was actually the running of a stop sign that caused him to u-turn and pursue her.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dkqw_7mrJnU
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Well, she clearly blew that stop sign, so that shoots the notion she was pulled over for nothing, or even the more asanine notion she was pulled over for being black
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If he said he pulled her over for not signalling, then that has to be the official reason.
Running a stop sign is not actually a capital offense either.
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No one claimed it was Dr Deflection. She also apparently inproperly changed lanes. It's likely that's a lesser offense than running a stop sign, and as such a lesser fine. Point being, it debunks the asanine notion she was pulled over for no reason other than being black
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The goal of a traffic officer is to prevent people from harming one another by driving recklessly. This woman was NOT driving recklessly. She pose no threat at all to anyone.
And now she is dead and they have decided it was a suicide. As Church Lady was wont to day, "How conveeeeeeenient!"
I suppose it will go to court. Maybe the cop will be fired.
Same old shit.
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He's not functioning as a mere "traffic officer". He functions as a LAW ENFORCEMENT officer. No one is really defending how the officer pushed her buttons, but the stop itself was perfectly lawful, and had she just complied with the rather simple lawful instructions (notice he didn't request she do any calisthenics or something ridiculous like that), everything that happened afterwards, would have never happened.
And before Dr Deflection makes the ridiculous effort, that doesn't equate that she's responsible for her death. She's only responsible for her getting arrested
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This woman was NOT driving recklessly. She pose no threat at all to anyone.
So now you are arguing running stop signs is not a threat to anyone?
And now she is dead and they have decided it was a suicide. As Church Lady was wont to day,
"How conveeeeeeenient!"
What evidence do you have that her death was not suicide and involved foul play?
Please provide it.
Hours of jail video show nothing unusual.
Other prisoners interviewed say they heard no struggle.
Autopsy show no bruises/damage on her body which would normally be present had a struggle happened.
Weed was found in her system.
And cut marks were found on her wrists from previous suicide attempts.
The woman was probably bat-shit crazy.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/23/us/sandra-bland-arrest-death-main/
Same old shit.
What is the "same old shit"....is race-baiters rushing to a conclusion before
the facts are known and then being proven mostly wrong when the facts
do emerge.
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Running a stop sign and failure to signal is not always a threat to anyone, that is pretty clear.
When there is no other traffic in sight there is no threat. I always stop for lights and signs, but a driver is clearly smarter than a traffic light.
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Running a stop sign and failure to signal is not always a threat to anyone, that is pretty clear.
Oh that would be a great message to send ...."hey running stop signs is only sometimes dangerous". ::)
Kind of make stop signs optional?....lol
When there is no other traffic in sight there is no threat.
I always stop for lights and signs, but a driver is clearly smarter than a traffic light.
I got a ticket for running a stop sign because I was not 100% behind the white cross walk line.
The officer approached my car and said "you know why I stopped you"?....I said "No Sir".
He said "you ran that stop sign"...I said "Officer I came to complete stop"...
The officer replied "you were over the white line".
I said "by how much?".....he said "don't matter".
Stunned I didn't say much else.
When I got home I researched online and did find that
stopping past the line is considered "running the stop sign" in Texas.
I guess if I was black I could of hollered "he pulled me over cuzz I'm black". ::)
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He pulled you over because he had a quota to fill and the rules he was given were stupid.]
Racism is a form of bullying and stupidity, but it is not the ONLY form.
For all tickets, the best thing to do is to get a ticket clinic lawyer. In Florida, this forces the cop to show up. If he fails to do so, you get no fine and no points and the city gets no fine.
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That's not specific to Florida xo. In any state in the union if you show up to refute the ticket and the officer doesn't, the case is tossed. And it doesn't require you to pay for a lawyer, either ::)
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I usually get a lawyer, but some cities also have something called "Deferred Adjudication" where you don't need a lawyer, you still have to pay the "court costs" which are basically the ticket fine, and if you don't get any violations within 6 months it is not reported to the insurance data-base.
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It serves to keep the cops off the street, and the way that they do book keeping, it makes the ticket quota system appear less workable.
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I do thank Xo for providing the 1st link, and Cu4 in providing the full context of the stop. 8)
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I do thank Xo for providing the 1st link, and Cu4 in providing the full context of the stop. 8)
And in XO's defense....99% of what was out there was only the link he provided.
It was not easy to find the more complete picture...
even when I knew it existed it was still difficult to locate.
It is typical of the media in general to only release a "part of a picture"
so that whatever is shown tends to portray the Police in the worst possible light.
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How is having a woman DIE as a result of a minor traffic offense NOT the "worst possible light"?
Perhaps they could have waterboarded her and raped her, but this is about as bad as it gets unless we call in the goons.
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How is having a woman DIE as a result of a minor traffic offense NOT the "worst possible light"?
Perhaps they could have waterboarded her and raped her, but this is about as bad as it gets unless we call in the goons.
This is exactly what we need to know.
Was her death directly attributable to how she was treated by the police?
Even if she killed herself , if this was preventable , the police have part of the blame.
If she was attacked and killed in police custody the police have most of the blame , whether it was a guard or an inmate that killed her, the Police department has responsibility to control the safety of the prisoners .
The only way the police have no responsibility is if their treatment of her was no rougher than necessary , and her suicide was unforeseeable by a reasonable and responsible police force.
The over-reactions visible on that video don't make the responsible parties look good .
I am prone to give the police the benefit of doubt, but I would really rather have more evidence and less doubt.
Isn't there an agency that can investigate this, including the police and jailors?
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I suppose the governor or someone in the county government could appoint a commission. I do not see this as any sort of sure thing.
She should not have been held in jail for three days over this.
The officer was not harmed in any way.
If that were the case, we would have seen his injuries by now.
The cops look like shit and fell in it..
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How is having a woman DIE as a result of a minor traffic offense NOT the "worst possible light"?
1st - she DIDN'T die as a result of a minor traffic offense
2nd - there are 3 distinct events. Trying to blurr them is disengenuous at minimim. There's the traffic stop. Then there's the resisting arrest. And then there's her death. One doesn't beget the other.
Then there are the idiots that try to inject waterboarding & rape into the discussion
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.................... One doesn't beget the other.
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Perhaps they did.
This could be a vindictive individual or an institutional failure to treat a prisoner rightly.
Or a seriously unfortunate grouping of co-incidences.
This jail and these policemen are in for a close look, because there is a bad appearance too apparent to be ignored.
If these guys are not guilty of anything , I really hope that the close look can confirm them.
If there was serious bad behavior , I hope the investigation condemns them.
It is possible that the facts will never become clear, that would leave us needing to be unfair to someone.
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You're right plane.....what I should have said, to be more clear is that one doesn't automatically beget the other. That requires facts we still don't have, that an investigation needs to fulfil