Looks Like I have to do Your Job For you -- for inquiring small minds

[BT]

That seems a bit like trying to keep your cake and eat it too.

Really?

I did not know indentured servitute was such an attractive offer.

You do realize in the early years of this country that was how the majority of non sponsored immigrants paid for passage.

[Plane]

I think you are wanting more thinking time for this , Ok.
Tell me tomorrow whether there is any way for organised labor to remain relivant with a planetwide availibility of scab.

Planetwide availability of scab? Now you're just being silly.

I'm not sure if you're making a case against immigration or against international trade.



Okay, that was laying the sarcasm on a bit thick. I admit that. Even so, this infinite/inexhaustible supply of labor objection you keep trying to press seems a bit ridiculous. If all labor in all fields of endeavor was exactly the same and all access to it was exactly the same, you might have a point. But it isn't and you don't.

  The qualified persons are of course a subset of all humanity and not absolutely infinate, but unions bargan by threat of boycot or strike. Infinity is not needed , just the manpower required to operate without the union.

     Are Unions going to be relivant in an environment of plentifull labor?

      I think this is a relivant question because we are already in times of declineing Union influence. Where immagration  sometimes overwhelms local labor , the job can also migrate with the manufacture or service being performed in a new venue near the cheaper labor.


     Perhaps the truth is that Labor Unions need to be absolutely international to be effective , perhaps the answer is that we will have to do without Unions as they slowly fade from modern life and join the livery stable as quaint , rare and irrelivant relics of the past.

   Neither of these are acceptable to Unions , they still advocate buying American production and hireing citizens , even closing shops , as if the industry were impossible to move or to staff without the union.

  So do you think that UNions must adapt or die?

  I really think so.

[Universe Prince]

That seems a bit like trying to keep your cake and eat it too.

Really?

I did not know indentured servitute was such an attractive offer.

You do realize in the early years of this country that was how the majority of non sponsored immigrants paid for passage.

Heh. Cute. My comment was directed at your statement, not indentured servitude. Nice misdirection though.

[Universe Prince]

So do you think that UNions must adapt or die?

Yes, though I also think great big, powerful unions do more harm than good.

[BT]

Heh. Cute. My comment was directed at your statement, not indentured servitude. Nice misdirection though.

So you agree that the indentured servitude program was a legitimate means of immigration control?

Even though, it wasn't government run, it apparently was government sanctioned.

[Universe Prince]

Misdirection follow through. Nice.

Anyway, I'll answer your questions, BT, after you answer mine.

[BT]

Anyway, I'll answer your questions, BT, after you answer mine.

Which questions?

[Universe Prince]

What sort of control over borders must a nation maintain to be said to be living up to its obligation? What rights does the individual actually have? Does the actual right of an individual ever trump the "right" of a nation?

[sirs]

Does the actual right of an individual ever trump the "right" of a nation?

I'll take a stab at the latter.......not as it relates to maintaining the sovereignty of that nation.  For instance, there's apparently more Palestinians in/around Jeruselem, than Israelis.  If ever the "right of return" were made law, Israel would largely cease to exist, as Palestinian majorities would eventually vote to dismantle everything Israel had put in place in order to maintain their status as a sovereign nation

[BT]

What sort of control over borders must a nation maintain to be said to be living up to its obligation?

Whatever is necessary given the ebb and flow of conditions.

What rights does the individual actually have?

None as afar as egress into another countries borders

Does the actual right of an individual ever trump the "right" of a nation?

Depends on the circumstances. I don't believe there is a right to unrestricted immigration, so in that case the rights of the state to control its borders state trumps the non right of the individual.

[Universe Prince]

Wow. A vague answer, an evasive answer, and another vague answer.

But I suppose I should count it a minor victory that you answered at all.

So you agree that the indentured servitude program was a legitimate means of immigration control?

No.

[BT]

Your sarcasm gets in the way of anything substantive you post and is hardly worth the bother.

If you want specific answers try asking specific questions.

[Plane]

So do you think that UNions must adapt or die?

Yes, though I also think great big, powerful unions do more harm than good.

What good do wimpy or absent unions do?

[sirs]

Your sarcasm gets in the way of anything substantive you post and is hardly worth the bother.

Uh oh......where have I heard that before?     

[Universe Prince]

Your sarcasm gets in the way of anything substantive you post and is hardly worth the bother.

The urge to respond sarcastically to that is strong. My sarcasm is nothing for which I need to apologize. If you'd prefer I simply start being rude and ludicrously hyperbolic, I suppose I could do that, but that would be common and boring. Or maybe you'd prefer I simply be vague and shift the subject of conversation randomly while acting as if the conversation had been about the new subject the whole time. I could do that too, I suppose, but that really is not my style. (Oops. Guess I gave into the urge after all.)

In any case, you're just engaging in more misdirection. You're trying to blame me for the lack of substance and clarity in your answers. I didn't do anything to form your reply. You did that all by yourself. I didn't make you join in the conversation. You made that choice all on your own.

And honestly, your vague and largely useless answers do not give you high ground to complain about someone else's remarks being hardly worth the bother.

If you want specific answers try asking specific questions.

That just cries out for sarcasm, but I'll try harder to restrain myself. My questions were not vague. They were specific. Your unwillingness to provide specific answers is not my fault.