"Who's on 1st?"

[BT]

So Park51 is perfectly within their rights to do with as they please with their building as there are no legal issues involved. I guess those who object can just go pound sand.

BINGO!!    What do you think I, C, and so many others have been saying all this time??  THAT's undoubtedly PRECISELY the position that those behind the construction of the mosque have adopted.  Sensitivity be damned, the rest of us can go pound sand.  That's what I've been saying since the beginning Bt.  How you managed to FINALLY grasp that now, is beyond me

I don't speak for the builders of Park51. I speak for myself. I see no other remedy to the controversy. As you have continually stated this is not a legal issue. You have also stated that the Park51 builders are certainly withinj their rights to do as they please withe the site as long as they follow local building codes and the permit process.

So it seems to me that this is simply a difference of opinion. I doubt i will change my mind on the issue and your opinion does not lead to a change in the facts and circumstances. Best I can tell the builders have prevailed and your side hasn't. Too bad, so sad.

[Christians4LessGvt]

Best I can tell the builders have prevailed and your side hasn't. Too bad, so sad.

Best I can tell the 9/11 Mosque isn't built. Too bad, so sad.

[BT]

Best I can tell the builders have prevailed and your side hasn't. Too bad, so sad.

Best I can tell the 9/11 Mosque isn't built. Too bad, so sad.

That's fine. It's not the building it is the ideal.

[Christians4LessGvt]

That's fine. It's not the building it is the ideal.

We can agree on that!
And don't you forget it!

[BT]

That's fine. It's not the building it is the ideal.

We can agree on that!
And don't you forget it!

I won't and i haven't.

But in the meantime can you provide direct linkage between the builders of Park51 and the WTC attackers, other than they share the same religion. Perhaps i missed it.

[Christians4LessGvt]

But in the meantime can you provide direct linkage between the builders of Park51
and the WTC attackers, other than they share the same religion. Perhaps i missed it.

Red Herring Alert!
The September 11th terrorists justified their action on the basis of Islamic theology.
If Catholics had been behind Sept 11th claiming Catholicism was their motivation
to bring down the World Trade Center buildings and murder thousands of Americans
I would not support building a huge Catholic monument on the site.
In fact it would be an outrage.

[BT]

But in the meantime can you provide direct linkage between the builders of Park51
and the WTC attackers, other than they share the same religion. Perhaps i missed it.

Red Herring Alert!
The September 11th terrorists justified their action on the basis of Islamic theology.
If Catholics had been behind Sept 11th claiming Catholicism was their motivation
to bring down the World Trade Center buildings and murder thousands of Americans
I would not support building a huge Catholic monument on the site.
In fact it would be an outrage.

Nothing red herring about it.

If i understand you correctly what you are saying is that because the builders are Muslim then they must share the guilt of those Muslims who actually did the deed.

Is that correct? If that is not what you are saying could you clarify your position a bit more for me?

[sirs]

So Park51 is perfectly within their rights to do with as they please with their building as there are no legal issues involved. I guess those who object can just go pound sand.

BINGO!!    What do you think I, C, and so many others have been saying all this time??  THAT's undoubtedly PRECISELY the position that those behind the construction of the mosque have adopted.  Sensitivity be damned, the rest of us can go pound sand.  That's what I've been saying since the beginning Bt.  How you managed to FINALLY grasp that now, is beyond me

I don't speak for the builders of Park51. I speak for myself.

I've implied nothing else, so not sure why the "clarification"

I see no other remedy to the controversy.

Then you're either purposely not paying attention, or one of those that just wants others to "go pound sand".  Half to a full mile out to do

So it seems to me that this is simply a difference of opinion.

Yea, one  isof senstivity to the events of 911 and how it impacted America and those family how lost loved ones, and the other of screw you, we can, and we will.  Or perhaps more accurately screw you, they can, and they will

Best I can tell the builders have prevailed and your side hasn't. Too bad, so sad.

Good thing I was never arguing this as a legal issue, thus making your conclusion pretty much moot

[Christians4LessGvt]

If i understand you correctly what you are saying is that because the builders are Muslim then they must share the guilt of those Muslims who actually did the deed. Is that correct? If that is not what you are saying could you clarify your position a bit more for me?

You have your semantics, I have mine.

I think if Muslims want to build a Muslim Center they should build it in a million
other places besides sacred ground where Muslims in the name of their religion
carried out one of the worst terrorism acts in American history. BT I just think it
is in very poor taste to build a Muslim Center adjacent to or near Ground Zero.

And to your other point....
I think many times a larger group can feel guilt and
shame over what a minority part of their group does.

I think Whites today share a guilt of slavery with those that actually did the deed.
I think Americans are ashamed & feel some guilt when pics arise of US Soldiers cruelty.
When I saw the pics today from Rolling Stone I was angry as hell, but also ashamed/feel guilt.
As a Catholic* I am ashamed/feel guilt that the homo priests did what they did to the alter boys.
I think as a partial White American I share guilt about other Americans treatment of the Indians.
As a partial White American I felt guilt when I saw other White Americans beating Rodney King.
And I think it would be in poor taste to build a "White Pride" monument at the Rodney King beating site.

[sirs]

But in the meantime can you provide direct linkage between the builders of Park51
and the WTC attackers, other than they share the same religion. Perhaps i missed it.

Red Herring Alert!
The September 11th terrorists justified their action on the basis of Islamic theology.
If Catholics had been behind Sept 11th claiming Catholicism was their motivation
to bring down the World Trade Center buildings and murder thousands of Americans
I would not support building a huge Catholic monument on the site.
In fact it would be an outrage.

BINGO

[BT]

THAT's undoubtedly PRECISELY the position that those behind the construction of the mosque have adopted. 

Thus the need for clarification. I have nothing to do with the building of Park51.

[BT]

I think Whites today share a guilt of slavery with those that actually did the deed.

Do you feel guilt over slavery?
I don't.

[BT]

As a partial White American I felt guilt when I saw other White Americans beating Rodney King.
And I think it would be in poor taste to build a "White Pride" monument at the Rodney King beating site.

Really. You felt white guilt over that. Last i heard the LAPD were the ones who did the deed. Wonder if they have a precinct or patrol cars anywhere near the site and whether that presences is duly sensitive and appropriate.

[Christians4LessGvt]

I think Whites today share a guilt of slavery with those that actually did the deed.

Do you feel guilt over slavery? I don't.

Oh yeah sure I do feel some.
I mean it's not like I walk around weeping everyday....lol
But sure I feel bad, ashamed, indirect guilt for what my ancestors did.
And in some ways I benefit everyday and they are still suffering from those crimes of my ancestors.
But thats really a different subject.

[BT]

I think Whites today share a guilt of slavery with those that actually did the deed.

Do you feel guilt over slavery? I don't.

Oh yeah sure I do feel some.
I mean it's not like I walk around weeping everyday....lol
But sure I feel bad, ashamed, indirect guilt for what my ancestors did.
And in some ways I benefit everyday and they are still suffering from those crimes of my ancestors.
But thats really a different subject.

Guess my lack of guilt is a benefit from having ancestors who came over in the 1880's. Irish to New York City and the Germans to PA Dutch Country.