Author Topic: Obama to Seniors...  (Read 1025 times)

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sirs

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Obama to Seniors...
« on: August 12, 2008, 02:30:25 PM »
You're too dumb to figure this out.  Let the government take care of it for you.

Obama's 'no income taxes on seniors' draws critics

Aug 11, 2008
By ANDREW TAYLOR

 
WASHINGTON (AP) - If you're a senior citizen and earn less than $50,000 a year, Barack Obama has a deal for you: a life free of federal income tax.

Sounds appealing, right? Maybe to many seniors. But tax policy experts in Washington are giving it bad reviews. They see it as another subsidy for senior citizens, who already get federal help through Social Security and Medicare and often have economic advantages over other demographic groups.

Seniors typically have paid off their mortgages, many have investments and usually don't pay taxes on their Social Security benefits. The kids are usually grown, so they're not saddled with day care or college costs.

"The odds are the retired folks - they're getting pensions, they're getting Social Security, they have investment assets, they own a house - so ... they're better off than somebody who is 30 or 40 years younger who's trying to buy a house (and) trying to start saving," said Clint Stretch, managing principal of tax policy for Deloitte Tax.

The Obama campaign says the idea would give tax cuts averaging about $1,400 to 7 million seniors who are battling inflation with mostly fixed incomes. The campaign also says the plan would relieve millions of older people from having to file complicated tax returns.  (You know, those voting ballots are far too complicated as well.  Best let the Government take care of those too.....as soon as a Democrat's in office, of course)

"If you work hard and pay into the system, you've earned the right to a secure retirement," says a description of the plan on the Obama campaign's web site. "But too many seniors aren't getting that security, even though they've held up their end of the bargain. Lower and middle income seniors are struggling as their expenses on health and energy skyrocket while their incomes do not keep pace."

Some of Obama's allies in Washington think he's onto a bad idea.

"Most low- and moderate-income seniors already owe no income tax. Among seniors with incomes below $50,000 who do owe income tax, a significant number have modest incomes because they are retired but possess substantial assets," said Robert Greenstein, who heads the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, a liberal think tank. "Given all the problems and needs the nation faces, targeting relief to this group isn't a priority."

The Tax Policy Center, a think tank run jointly by the Brookings Institution and the Urban Institute, gave the idea bad grades in a recent study of the two presidential candidates' tax plans.

Seniors already get preferential treatment in the tax code. They can claim an additional standard deduction and only a portion of their Social Security benefits are taxed. Many don't pay payroll taxes because their income is from investments rather than wages.

"The proposal would exempt comparatively well off, though not affluent, senior citizens from taxes and give them a benefit not generally available to working Americans," said the Tax Policy Center paper. It "helps only those low-income seniors who currently pay income taxes. Those too poor to owe any tax - arguably those most in need - would get no benefit."

Even the powerful seniors' lobby doesn't seem excited about Obama's idea. An AARP bulletin on the presidential candidates' tax plans barely mentions it, noting that Obama's proposal could partly offset additional taxes that Obama would impose on seniors through higher tax rates on dividends and capital gains.

Tax experts across the spectrum also fault the Obama plan's abrupt $50,000 per year threshold. As described by the campaign, seniors making $48,000, for example, would pay no income tax, while someone with income slightly more than $50,000 could pay several thousand dollars in income taxes. Seniors nearing the $50,000 threshold would have an incentive to quit working.

Lawmakers would likely add a phaseout, according to tax experts. "Everyone knows there would never be this $50,000 cliff," said Ben Harris, a senior research associate at Brookings.

The proposed new tax break for seniors is one of about a dozen tax changes proposed by Obama, including raising rates on people making more than $250,000 a year, extending most of the rest of President Bush's tax cuts, subsidizing Social Security and payroll taxes for low-income workers and boosting income and child care tax credits for low-income workers.


Pure unadulterated political pandering
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: Obama to Seniors...
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2008, 01:52:45 AM »
Inexperience?

Is this an idea origional with BHO?

sirs

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Re: Obama to Seniors...
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2008, 02:44:46 AM »
Naaa......the idea of pure pandering is ancient with politicians.  More of Obama demonstrating himself to be just your run of the mill standard politician......who happens to be a socialist
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Knutey

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Re: Obama to Seniors...
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2008, 10:29:04 AM »
Naaa......the idea of pure pandering is ancient with politicians.  More of Obama demonstrating himself to be just your run of the mill standard politician......who happens to be a socialist
How come when  the Bushidiot cuts taxes on the greedy rich  he is a great American but when Obama wants to do the same for the old & poor he is a socialist? Go figure.

sirs

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Re: Obama to Seniors...
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2008, 11:05:20 AM »
That's because he's cutting taxes for EVERYONE who pays taxes, not just the "greedy rich"
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Knutey

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Re: Obama to Seniors...
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2008, 12:05:42 PM »
That's because he's cutting taxes for EVERYONE who pays taxes, not just the "greedy rich"

More RW wimpy & ignorant falsehoods:

Published on Wednesday, January 15, 2003 by the Boulder Daily Camera
Connect the Dots, Folks: Bush Tax Cuts for Rich
by Molly Ivins
 

AUSTIN, Texas — I just love the fine print in the president's tax-cut plan. I grant you, the overall effect is pretty spectacular, too — a plan that has almost no stimulative effect but still opens a future of zillion-dollar deficits to drag down the economy. That's the back-asswards of what we need, but it's not the fun part.

Look at these goodies:

Think because you have money in the stock market you might have a stake in eliminating the dividend tax, the centerpiece of the president's tax cut — $300 billion over 10 years? (You probably think you have money in the stock market because your 401K keeps going down — that would be 40 million Americans.) But no! This tax break doesn't apply to your dividends! The money in your 401K from both savings and dividends are tax sheltered until you withdraw the money — then all of it gets taxed as ordinary income. You don't get any tax break on your dividends — that only goes to the investor class. According to Kevin Phillips, 1 percent of investors pocketed 42 percent of the stock-market gains between 1989 and 1997, while the top 10 percent of the population took 86 percent. These people need a tax cut! They haven't been getting their share!

According to the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center, the effect of eliminating dividend taxation is that the average benefit for those making less than $10,000 would be $6, and average benefit for those making more than $1 million would be $45,098. Quick, high-schoolers, let's practice up for the those SATs by figuring out by what percentage $45,098 is bigger than $6.

Bush also wants to accelerate the income-tax cuts slated for 2006. Look at this folly. The top 5 percent of taxpayers would get 70 percent of the benefits on that one. The bottom 80 percent would get 6.5 percent of the benefits. Ditto with accelerating the 2004 tax cuts: 64.4 percent to the top 5 percent of taxpayers; 7.7 percent to the bottom 80 percent.

One of those people who can't handle numbers, need something visual to work with? Find the Urban-Brookings charts published in the Jan. 7 New York Times showing who gets how much of this tax cut. You can bareley see the lines that measure the relief until you get above the 99th percentile.

Naturally there will be a lot of spinning on these tax cuts in the weeks ahead, with numbers being tossed around like confetti. We'll probably need John Paulos, the innumeracy guy, to referee. I recommend the Center for Tax Justice (www.ctj.org), whose computer model is widely respected.

Speaking of damn lies and statistics, one of the little games being played in Washington is that the Republicans want to switch to Enron accounting on the economy. They're leaning on both the Congressional Budget Office and the Joint Committee on Taxation to change the way they make their economic estimates. According to the R's, "static scoring" — as opposed to your "dynamic scoring" — overestimates the cost of tax cuts by ignoring their role in boosting economic growth. Why, claim the R's, tax cuts pay for themsleves! If that's so, why are all the states going broke? Bring on Arthur Andersen and mark-to-market accounting — that'll perk up the economy.

The only good part of the Bush's tax cut plan is the $400 increase in the tax credit per child — at least that spreads it around a little. Naturally, that's the one part of the plan right-wingers hate.

As we all wade into these numerical battles over exactly how much of this tax cut goes to the very rich, the more fundamental question is whether it's a good idea — either economically, or in terms of social justice, to have the very rich get very much richer than they already are.

Contrary to the paranoid fantasists on The Wall Street Journal's editorial page, populists are not motivated by some burning resentment of the rich — we don't spend our lives in an envious funk that someone else is better off than we are. "No skin off my nose" is the general attitude, with others coming in at "Lucky them" or "Good for them." The problem is that the rich are screwing up our democracy. Less than 0.1 percent of the U.S. population gave 83 percent of all itemized campaign contributions for the 2002 elections, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. According to the Houston Chronicle, just 48 wealthy Texas families provided more than half the campaign funds for the major Republican state candidates this fall.

How dumb do you have to be not to be able to connect the dots here? Law, policy and regulation are consistently shaped to favor the rich over the rest of us, and that, dammit, is not fair, it is not right, it is not the country we want and for which we are asked to sacrifice.

Copyright 2003, The Daily Camera

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http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0115-05.htm

sirs

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Re: Obama to Seniors...
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2008, 12:10:22 PM »
Only to rabid unable-to-process toe-tag liberals does income tax cuts to all income tax payers = wimpy & ignorant falsehoods.  Then again, that's why we have Knute
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Knutey

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Re: Obama to Seniors...
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2008, 12:38:26 PM »
Only to rabid unable-to-process toe-tag liberals does income tax cuts to all income tax payers = wimpy & ignorant falsehoods.  Then again, that's why we have Knute
My what an intelligent rejoinder! Not!