DebateGate

General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Michael Tee on September 04, 2008, 04:20:19 PM

Title: 1.5 months
Post by: Michael Tee on September 04, 2008, 04:20:19 PM
The Democrats have 1.5 months left to clinch the advantage which I believe they now enjoy.

Palin scares more people than she energizes, IMHO.  She's basically a man in drag - - abandons a newborn Down syndrome baby to pursue big-time politics, NRA moose hunter, anti-women's rights and some really scary abortion positions.  Sarah Barracuda for sure.  But after 8 years of war-mongering, who really wants a barracuda one heartbeat away from the Presidency, or the Presidency in the hands of a senile old fool whose idea of music is "Bomb bomb Iran?"

Only the politics of fear can drive the electorate into the arms of these two nightmarish figures.  But they're kinda caught in the lies of their own "the surge succeeded" bullshit.  "War's over, we won!" doesn't really do much for the Politics of Fear.

Here's what the Democrats have to do to win this:  hit hard at McCain's age, his impulsiveness, his phony "torture" record.  Obama can say for the record what a great American McCain is, what sacrifices blah blah blah, but SOMEBODY has got to challenge the little weasel's phony credentials.  He was never tortured, can't produce a single credible witness to his torture and his own jailer , who otherwise admires the man, confirms that he was never  tortured.

Secondly:  if his "character," (valiant soldier, etc.) is in issue, because he MADE it an issue, then take a good long look at ALL his character.  We hear a lot about "personal narratives" so let's make sure everybody KNOWS McCain's "personal narrative," especially where he returns to the wife who waited for him while he was in jail, lies to her, cheats on her and divorces her for a multimillionaire addict and former model.  Keep hitting on that - - the "family values" crowd is dumb as shit, so a lot of repetition is needed, but they WILL get the message  Also, as a side-bar to the character issue, highlight the flip-flops, especially in a way that will resonate with the Christian right:  Loathes the Christian ("agents of intolerance") right, then chases after their endorsements like a bitch in heat; pro-amnesty, anti-amnesty; anti-torture, pro-torture; anti-tax cuts, pro-tax cuts.  CHARACTER?  He'll promise anything to anyone to get elected and change on a dime.

Palin - - Sarah Palin is the gift that gives on giving.  Even if no new scandals come out of the woodwork (not very likely) enough are already out to keep Democrats busy till  election day.  Her "heartbeat away" status serves the double function of scaring the bejesus out of every sane, normal voter in the country and highlights McCain's own tenuous purchase on life, hid doddering senility and the fact that SHE, the Mayor of Wassilla, is likely to be the one who finishes up the next Presidential term.   The Troopergate scandal (which has to be backgrounded, particularly so that the circumstances of the stock Republican justification, "He tased his own step-son," are put into context and the abuse of power becomes crystal clear) can be emphasized, but it's probably not likely to be a fatal wound.  Palin's relationship with indicted Senator Ted Stevens and his associates need to be investigated thoroughly, but the limited time available till Election Day make a pay-off from that quarter a long shot.  Highlighting her right-wing extremist views on women's right to choose and the kind of Supreme Court that you're likely to end up with from her and McCain are good, angry fingers on the red button are even better.
Title: Re: 1.5 months
Post by: Religious Dick on September 04, 2008, 04:23:06 PM
(http://scottthong.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/palinrocks13.jpg?w=440)
Title: Re: 1.5 months
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on September 04, 2008, 04:26:51 PM
I think McCain was married THREE times, wasn't he?

Great family values there.
Title: Re: 1.5 months
Post by: sirs on September 04, 2008, 04:47:17 PM
and, of course if he loses, it's because of American rampant racism and/or the GOP stole another one.....right?
Title: Re: 1.5 months
Post by: Michael Tee on September 04, 2008, 06:05:07 PM
Racism's pretty much of a subterranean force, it's hard to measure its strength.  It's possible if Obama loses, we'll never know how much racism contributed to the loss.

I'd say Obama has already contributed towards a possible loss by diluting his brand.  Picking Biden was the most egregious example of that, and Biden has yet to prove that he can earn his keep on the ticket.

I'd say McCain is vulnerable on the age issue, on "family values" and on his fake "hero" status.  It takes real guts to go after him on the third issue, but the first two should be easy, and yet nothing much is going on in any of the three categories and time is running out.  The problem here is that McCain is pretty much allowed free rein in defining himself and nobody is challenging this.  The "maverick" brand being a case in point.  He's about as much of a "maverick" as any other Republican (only Ron Paul really deserves the name) and yet even that is rarely challenged.

There's a fantastic opportunity here to attack from the bottom of the ticket, Sarah Barracuda's being the finger that nobody should want anywhere near the red button.  Woman is deranged.  She's a hillbilly.  The attempts to justify her qualifications as C-in-C were patently absurd.  Meet the new C - in - C, Miss Almost Alaska, the former Mayor of Walsilla Alaska, mother of five, including one pregnant 17-year-old and one Down syndrome newborn, who apparently won't require a hell of a lot of attention from anyone over the next few years.  This thing is a fucking God-send, yet where is the solid wall of merciless attacks?

If Obama loses, could be he'll have only himself to blame.  Where's the piss?  Where's the vinegar?
Title: Re: 1.5 months
Post by: Plane on September 04, 2008, 06:12:44 PM
Racism's pretty much of a subterranean force, it's hard to measure its strength.  It's possible if Obama loses, we'll never know how much racism contributed to the loss.

I'd say Obama has already contributed towards a possible loss by diluting his brand.  Picking Biden was the most egregious example of that, and Biden has yet to prove that he can earn his keep on the ticket.

I'd say McCain is vulnerable on the age issue, on "family values" and on his fake "hero" status.  It takes real guts to go after him on the third issue, but the first two should be easy, and yet nothing much is going on in any of the three categories and time is running out.  The problem here is that McCain is pretty much allowed free rein in defining himself and nobody is challenging this.  The "maverick" brand being a case in point.  He's about as much of a "maverick" as any other Republican (only Ron Paul really deserves the name) and yet even that is rarely challenged.

There's a fantastic opportunity here to attack from the bottom of the ticket, Sarah Barracuda's being the finger that nobody should want anywhere near the red button.  Woman is deranged.  She's a hillbilly.  The attempts to justify her qualifications as C-in-C were patently absurd.  Meet the new C - in - C, Miss Almost Alaska, the former Mayor of Walsilla Alaska, mother of five, including one pregnant 17-year-old and one Down syndrome newborn, who apparently won't require a hell of a lot of attention from anyone over the next few years.  This thing is a fucking God-send, yet where is the solid wall of merciless attacks?

If Obama loses, could be he'll have only himself to blame.  Where's the piss?  Where's the vinegar?

You do not agree with BHO that the children should be off limits?

The mercyless attacks you propose seem like a great thing to me , so poorly connected to the facts as they are , the sympathy gained would be tremendous.

But attacks on the Kids are supposed to be beyond the pale and intolerable , even for the boomerang effect that would surely crush the BHO canadacy I can't want the kids to become "fair game" for political mudslinging. 
Title: Re: 1.5 months
Post by: Amianthus on September 04, 2008, 06:32:42 PM
mother of five, including one pregnant 17-year-old and one Down syndrome newborn, who apparently won't require a hell of a lot of attention from anyone over the next few years.

Guess Obama's kids are self-sufficient, huh? After all, both of their parents work.
Title: Re: 1.5 months
Post by: Michael Tee on September 04, 2008, 07:08:08 PM
<<You do not agree with BHO that the children should be off limits?>>

One time I really thought the military records of men who had put their lives at risk should be off limits, but if Kerry's three purple hearts aren't off limits, nothing is off limits.  In this case, anyway, it isn't the kids who are under attack but the parents.

<<The mercyless attacks you propose seem like a great thing to me , so poorly connected to the facts as they are , the sympathy gained would be tremendous.>>

Not how it works in real life.  Look at Swift-Boating, the overall effect was negative, even though the charges were bullshit.

<<But attacks on the Kids are supposed to be beyond the pale and intolerable , even for the boomerang effect that would surely crush the BHO canadacy I can't want the kids to become "fair game" for political mudslinging.>>

Palin sacrificed her pregnant daughter's right to privacy for her own political ambition.  PLEASE don't tell me she did it for her country because no one but she was qualified to hold this position.   And it's not the baby who's being criticized, it's the abandoning mother.
Title: Re: 1.5 months
Post by: Michael Tee on September 04, 2008, 07:13:13 PM
<<Guess Obama's kids are self-sufficient, huh? After all, both of their parents work.>>

A good friend of ours is the mother of a Down syndrome child, and through her we met several other parents in the same boat.

You have no idea, as we had none, of the tremendous job it is to be a mother to such a child.  It's a constant battle, especially when there are other kids in the family. 

It's impossible to equate the burdens of parenthood of two normal healthy girls with parenthood of a family of children which includes one Down syndrome child.

Palin is needed at home a lot more than Sen. and Mrs. Obama.
Title: Re: 1.5 months
Post by: Amianthus on September 04, 2008, 07:19:42 PM
You have no idea, as we had none, of the tremendous job it is to be a mother to such a child.  It's a constant battle, especially when there are other kids in the family. 

And her husband is planning on becoming a stay at home dad if she's elected. After all, he's not gonna commute from the Naval Observatory to Alaska anyway.

Or do both parents stay at home in your friend's family?

BTW, I have some friends who are raising 2 children with Down's. One is theirs, another is adopted.
Title: Re: 1.5 months
Post by: Plane on September 04, 2008, 07:24:45 PM
<<You do not agree with BHO that the children should be off limits?>>

One time I really thought the military records of men who had put their lives at risk should be off limits, but if Kerry's three purple hearts aren't off limits, nothing is off limits.  In this case, anyway, it isn't the kids who are under attack but the parents.

<<The mercyless attacks you propose seem like a great thing to me , so poorly connected to the facts as they are , the sympathy gained would be tremendous.>>

Not how it works in real life.  Look at Swift-Boating, the overall effect was negative, even though the charges were bullshit.

<<But attacks on the Kids are supposed to be beyond the pale and intolerable , even for the boomerang effect that would surely crush the BHO canadacy I can't want the kids to become "fair game" for political mudslinging.>>

Palin sacrificed her pregnant daughter's right to privacy for her own political ambition.  PLEASE don't tell me she did it for her country because no one but she was qualified to hold this position.  And it's not the baby who's being criticized, it's the abandoning mother.


No .

"Ole Hickory" General Andrew Jackson ran for president and his opponents thouroughly examined his war record , including the incident in which he hung deserters. A Canadates military record has never been "off limits" I do not know where you got that idea.

You are as free as anyone to question John McCain's history including his military record , but if the accusations seem ridiculous I will be very happy to see them appled in a ham fisted way.

John Kerry successfully proved that SOME of the things he was accused of were not necessarily so , but some of the things he was accused of were proven , including that he was making some of his experiences up from his imagination , it doesnot take much of that to spoil credibility.

  I have been reading John McCain's memoir "Faith of my Fathers" in which he quite frankly admits that not everyone in the Navy was pleased with him , there is plenty of money for this project ,so,,... good hunting to you, it will not be unprecedented to examine a candidates service record as you suppose , but unlike you I suppose that there is already a frantic effort to find something useable as slime.


If there is so little slime available on the candidates that the slime slingers must resort to public ridicule of Children , there must be very little slime indeed on the candidates.


I abjure you from attacks on children , it isn't worthwile for either side.
Title: Re: 1.5 months
Post by: Michael Tee on September 04, 2008, 07:42:32 PM
<<[Jackson's] opponents thouroughly examined his war record . . .  A Canadates military record has never been "off limits" I do not know where you got that idea.>>

Probably from the fact that it hasn't been done for 150 years.

<<John Kerry successfully proved that SOME of the things he was accused of were not necessarily so , but some of the things he was accused of were proven , including that he was making some of his experiences up from his imagination , it doesnot take much of that to spoil credibility.>>

They attacked his entitlement to his medals and they proved nothing.

<<I have been reading John McCain's memoir "Faith of my Fathers" in which he quite frankly admits that not everyone in the Navy was pleased with him , there is plenty of money for this project , good hunting it will not be unprecedented to examine a candidates service record as you suppose , but unlike you I suppose that there is already a frantic effort to find something useable as slime.>>

You're wrong, they already know he broadcast for the Vietnamese and none of this has ever been shown in this campaign.  They've got the guy's jailer who denies his phony "torture" claims, and this is pretty much dead and buried.

<<I abjure you from attacks on children , it isn't worthwile for either side.>>

The attacks are on the parent, she's just hiding behind the children she obviously doesn't give a shit about.  Her daughter, Bristol, apparently got zero guidance, direction or discipline from this woman and her newborn Down syndrome baby, Trig, is gonna have to grow up largely without the sustaining presence of a mother in his life.  I think it's legitimate criticism of the candidate - - if she's gonna preach the "Family Values" talk, she damn well better walk the "Family Values" walk.
Title: Re: 1.5 months
Post by: sirs on September 04, 2008, 07:44:44 PM
LOL   Priceless
Title: Re: 1.5 months
Post by: Plane on September 04, 2008, 07:58:51 PM

They attacked his entitlement to his medals and they proved nothing.



All right I suppose , though I do not know what the three wounds were , I don't realy want to take his purple hearts from him.

But the Story he told of being on Cambodian waters on Christmas , of haveing a hat given him by a CIA agent , these tales turned out to be fables he made up.

What were the three wounds by the way , not that it matters , but if it did matter John McCain had several wounds so if it matters it matters the same for John as John.
Title: Re: 1.5 months
Post by: Michael Tee on September 04, 2008, 08:02:23 PM
<<But the Story he told of being on Cambodian waters on Christmas , of haveing a hat given him by a CIA agent , these tales turned out to be fables he made up.>>

BFD.  The purple hearts were the real deal.  Three times he put himself in a position where a few inches of trajectory would have made the difference between him living and dying and he gets called a liar over it?  Shame on the whole fucking bunch of you.  And don't tell me he was a war criminal, YOU don't call him that , and YOU don't think he was - - this is how YOU treat a guy who put his life on the line for what you considered a worthy cause.

<<What were the three wounds by the way , not that it matters , but if it did matter John McCain had several wounds so if it matters it matters the same for John as John.>>

McCain's wounds aren't in issue, his phony "torture" claims are.
Title: Re: 1.5 months
Post by: sirs on September 04, 2008, 08:12:06 PM
<<But the Story he told of being on Cambodian waters on Christmas , of haveing a hat given him by a CIA agent , these tales turned out to be fables he made up.>>

BFD. 

LOL...see?, lying is no big deal if it's a Dem.  Especially if its a Dem condemning those murdering bastard American Soldiers.  Or if its an SS jailor claiming no Republican was tortured under his watch.  Ends justify the means




Title: Re: 1.5 months
Post by: Plane on September 04, 2008, 08:29:09 PM


McCain's wounds aren't in issue, his phony "torture" claims are.

BFD.  The purple hearts were the real deal. Twenty seven times he placed himself in the Anti aircraft range of enemy batterys where a few inches of trajectory would have made the difference between him living and dying and he gets called a liar over it?Shame on you.  And don't tell me he was a war criminal, unless Kerry Who admitted to it is also.this is how YOU treat a guy who put his life on the line for a very worthy cause.


Come on MT , what ever John Kerry had , McCain has more of , with the outstanding exception of conflicting himself so much.

Title: Re: 1.5 months
Post by: Michael Tee on September 04, 2008, 09:49:07 PM
<<Come on MT , what ever John Kerry had , McCain has more of , with the outstanding exception of conflicting himself so much.>>

Still don't get it, plane?  With Kerry, the gloves came off and the genie got out of the bottle.  Now that it's McCain's turn, you want the gloves to go back on and the genie back in the bottle?

Sorry, plane, that's not how it works.
Title: Re: 1.5 months
Post by: BT on September 04, 2008, 09:59:34 PM
What are the statistics? 50% of American marriages end in divorce? I hope to see the dems alienate that block, too.


Title: Re: 1.5 months
Post by: Plane on September 04, 2008, 10:30:21 PM
<<Come on MT , what ever John Kerry had , McCain has more of , with the outstanding exception of conflicting himself so much.>>

Still don't get it, plane?  With Kerry, the gloves came off and the genie got out of the bottle.  Now that it's McCain's turn, you want the gloves to go back on and the genie back in the bottle?

Sorry, plane, that's not how it works.


No.

Have you not been listening?

Or reading rather, I have been inviteing you to do your worst , it is the American way, and why shouldn't you participate?

I have read what you have been suggestiong and laughing up my sleeve as I think I understand the public reaction better than you , probly because you are deep in wishfull thinking.


The exception being the children of the canadates. Don't do to my canadates Kids what you don't want done to your cnadates kids.

Or any kids at all really , emotional abuse is abuse and while it is needfull to screen our presidential canadates it is needlessly harmfull and usefull for nothing when applied to a child.
Title: Re: 1.5 months
Post by: Knutey on September 04, 2008, 10:38:58 PM
<<Come on MT , what ever John Kerry had , McCain has more of , with the outstanding exception of conflicting himself so much.>>

Still don't get it, plane?&nbsp; With Kerry, the gloves came off and the genie got out of the bottle.&nbsp; Now that it's McCain's turn, you want the gloves to go back on and the genie back in the bottle?

Sorry, plane, that's not how it works.


You are right about that- The sex genie was unleashed by the stupid Repuds with Clinton and bit them in the ass almost immediately by exposing their ingrained perversities. The he is no hero lie got Kerry but the truth  will really get McCain who is almost certainly a traitor.
http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/cin_wasmccainbrainswashed.htm (http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/cin_wasmccainbrainswashed.htm)

Title: Re: 1.5 months
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on September 04, 2008, 11:39:25 PM
Her daughter, Bristol, apparently got zero guidance, direction or discipline from this woman and her newborn Down syndrome baby, Trig, is gonna have to grow up largely without the sustaining presence of a mother in his life.  I think it's legitimate criticism of the candidate - - if she's gonna preach the "Family Values" talk, she damn well better walk the "Family Values" walk.

=======================
In the highly unlikely event that she is elected, we need not worry about Palin's kids. They can easily hire qualified professionals to take care of them. So that is hardly any sort of major problem. Winston Churchill was raised by nannies, so was FDR, and Juniorbush as well.
Title: Re: 1.5 months
Post by: Michael Tee on September 05, 2008, 01:08:06 PM
yeah, you're right about Winston Churchill and FDR, but from where I sit, don't look like the Palin family is gonna turn out much of either.  At least, not for the next ten million years.
Title: Re: 1.5 months
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on September 05, 2008, 02:31:54 PM
At least, not for the next ten million years.

That sounds a tad exaggerated. They could mutate their shoulderblades into wings in that amount of time, it would seem.