DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: BSB on June 13, 2013, 07:27:00 AM
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The Worst of Both Worlds
By CHARLES M. BLOW
Congress’s approval rating is abysmal. No news there. But it’s important to understand why.
According to a Gallup poll released Wednesday, the reason most Americans disapprove of Congress isn’t because of a specific policy or bad ethical behavior but because of inaction and partisan gridlock. Americans believe that Congress is broken.
And there is no need for any banal stretch for a false equivalency to explain why that would be. The reason Congress doesn’t work is because Republican lawmakers have ceased to believe that it should. For too many of them, compromise has become synonymous with collusion. They would rather resist than work. So the wheels of government are screeching to a halt. Obstruction and bluster have replaced solutions and courage.
As the former Clinton labor secretary Robert Reich wrote last week:
“Conservative Republicans in our nation’s capital have managed to accomplish something they only dreamed of when Tea Partiers streamed into Congress at the start of 2011: They’ve basically shut Congress down. Their refusal to compromise is working just as they hoped: No jobs agenda. No budget. No grand bargain on the deficit. No background checks on guns. Nothing on climate change. No tax reform. No hike in the minimum wage. Nothing so far on immigration reform.”
On that last point at least, Congress has a chance at redemption. It may be the best chance this year — and possibly the last during the Obama administration.
But the Republican caucus is deeply torn about how to deal with — and discuss — comprehensive immigration reform. Acerbic dissension among conservatives is doing damage to the Republican brand even as the legislation holds the promise of lifting the Congressional brand.
This could mean that whatever comes of the bill — pass or fail — Republicans could in fact get the worst of both worlds. If it passes, Republicans are not likely to be credited with the victory, and if it fails they will most likely be seen as responsible for the failure.
They have only themselves to blame.
Last week, the Republican-led House of Representatives voted to defund the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals programs, essentially voting to deport more Dreamers. (Only six Republicans voted against defunding the program; only three Democrats voted for it.) After the vote, the Hispanic Caucus tweeted: “House Republicans just voted to treat Dreamers and undocumented spouses of servicemembers in the same way as violent criminals.”
When the Senate tried Tuesday to bring the “gang of eight” ’s immigration bill to the floor, all 15 senators who voted to filibuster the law were Republicans.
The optics on this bill don’t look good. And things get worse online, where many Republican commentators have dubbed the bill “Shamnesty.” Opponents of the measure accuse Republicans who are for it of being apostates to the conservative cause, concerned more about presidential politics than principle and defending the Constitution.
There may be some measure of truth in these charges. Most political positions have a degree of ambiguity, a mix of genuine concern and raw cynicism.
For instance, while Hispanics make up about 16 percent of the population as a whole, three of the four Republican members of the Senate’s “gang of eight” — John McCain, Jeff Flake and Marco Rubio — are from states where the Hispanic population is more than 22 percent.
The one exception is Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, whose Hispanic population is only about 5 percent, but he has his own particular problems.
First, as South Carolina’s Augusta Chronicle pointed out in 2011:
“South Carolina’s population grew by 15.3 percent during the past 10 years, but its Hispanic population grew 148 percent.” Those are the kinds of numbers that can make a politician sit up and take notice.
And Graham’s current electoral math seems tougher than his last time out.
According to an April Winthrop University poll: “United States Senator Lindsey Graham, who is up for re-election in 2014, received a 44 percent approval rating among South Carolina registered voters, but his approval rating has dropped from 71.6 percent to 57.5 percent among Republicans and those independents who lean toward the G.O.P. compared to the February poll. This drop corresponds to the entry of two vocal challengers, and discussion of a third, into the primary race against him.”
Furthermore, McCain ran for president in 2008 and lost, in part because he lost the Hispanic vote 2-to-1 to Barack Obama. And Marco Rubio is almost certainly making a run for the White House in 2016.
Whatever these senators’ motives, it’s clear that the Hispanic population is growing in many of their Southern, stronghold states, and it’s becoming increasingly hard to imagine a presidential victory without substantial Hispanic support.
But it’s becoming just as apparent that far-right conservatives see immigration legislation that allows a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants as a suicidal mission.
The problem is that their overwrought opposition — which may well be futile — may prove as damaging to their party as to the legislation itself.
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I invite you to join me on Facebook and follow me on Twitter, or e-mail me at chblow@nytimes.com.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/13/opinion/blow-the-worst-of-both-worlds.html?hp (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/13/opinion/blow-the-worst-of-both-worlds.html?hp)
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It is amusing to watch the Angry Old Man Party celebrate their own demise by shooting themselves in the feet.
Marco Rubio is looking sillier by the minute, but Ted Cruz is coming across as even sillier.
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From everything i have read about the bill it is poorly crafted. So why should it pass?
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"The reason Congress doesn't work is because
Republican lawmakers have ceased to believe that it should"
Translantion:
Republicans should capitulate to Leftist demands.
Either go along with our agenda or you are the problem.
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It's always fascinating to watch how folks respond to the GOP, in that if they don't "compromise", then it's the GOP at fault (Bush in particular) for everything that goes wrong. Especially when "compromise" is largely defined as "ok, we just won't grow the government quite as fast as we, the Democrats, want".
How about this for a "compromise"......we won't shrink the government as much as we, Conservatives, would want". How come no one ever hears about demands for Democrats compromising towards Conservative agendas? It's always Conservatives and Republicans who are rhetorically strafed for not being liberal enough, and compromising in that direction
Here's hoping Ted Cruz wins the GOP nomination for a 2016 Presidential run. He'll blow Biden out of the electoral water
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very true SIRS...
why wont the democrats just compromise on "school choice"?
why wont the democrats just compromise on abortion?
why wont the democrats just compromise and cancel ObamaCare?
democrats are usually not stupid
biden will not be the nominee
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Cancelling Obamacare is not any sort of compromise.
Why not just leave abortion to the women who want to have one?
What the hell do you mean by "school choice"?
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Where the hell was the "compromise" in Obamacare's passing?? Had to pass it to see what was in it. Not ONE republican vote for a monstrous bill that a majority of the population DID NOT WANT. Yet Democrats rammed it through anyways
Now the Dems can't even compromise on their promise to compromise, with the Immigration Bill. It's either their way or the highway, and if it doesn't pass, its because of the GOP?? I don't think so
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In order to be a member of the rightwing in America you have to a PHBS. That's a PreNatal Bull Shit degree.
BSB
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Naaaa, just have to have a grasp of both the U.S. Constitution & Rule of Law, along with what the word "fair" actually means
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It is real simple. If there is no immigration bill, the GOP loses the Hispanic vote bigtime.
Then the Angry Old Fart Party will not even be relevant, and the bill will be passed.
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It is real simple. If there is no immigration bill, the GOP loses the Hispanic vote bigtime.
If there's THIS immigration bill, in its current format, minus the compromises promised on securing the border, the GOP becomes a permanent minority. Why do you think all the Dems are jumping up and down & giddy, at trying to pass this version? That's exactly what they want
It's that simple.
Contrary to popular leftist opinion, the "Hispanic vote" is not one big monolithic vote. Millions of LEGAL hispanics aren't going to be very happy with an influx of 11+million more competitors for their jobs, and they're more financially attactive to businesses, than those here legally
Go back, and do it right
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It is not leftist opinion, it is a fact.
Obama got a bigger share of the Hispanic vote in 2008 than Juniorbush did in 2004. And an even bigger share in 2012.
De los hispanos no entiendes ni jota, pendejo.
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It is not leftist opinion, it is a fact.
LOL....you best stop trying to push leftist talking points as fact, or you better start lining up more strawmen
My point remains unrefuted, that the hispanic vote is NOT some monolithic vote. And if Hispanics come to realize the 11+million more competitors for their jobs, and that busnesses are going to be much more inclined to sign them vs those here legally, all in the blink of a signature, their supposed support for "Comprehensive Immigration Reform" will evaporate faster than one of your "facts"
As I said, the Immigration Bill in its CURRENT form is the foundation to a permanent GOP minority status. Why else are Dems salivating at the thought of getting this version passed. I mean look at Xo, trying to "help the GOP" by advocating their need to sign on. If this was "good for the GOP, he and every other hard core leftist would be fighting tooth and nail against it
And THAT's a fact
Go back, and do it right, which would include the compromises the Democrats promised
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No vote of any group is monolithic. But again the Angry Old White Guy Party will not get a sizable Hispanic minority unless it passes an immigration bill.
I can say any damn thing I want. Your threats are futile. Your ignorance is abysmal.
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"But again the Angry Old White Guy Party will not get a sizable Hispanic minority unless it passes an immigration bill."
Correct, and if they pass one they alienate their membership. Either way they lose.
Losers.
BSB
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As currently written, it is a bad bill, even when watered down with the house bill it will still be bad.
I say the GOP turn it's back on it. let the dems own it.
Who knows maybe the GOP will pick up the black vote.
i kid
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"As currently written, it is a bad bill, even when watered down with the house bill it will still be bad. "
Well, that's nothing new is it?
BSB
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Nothing new at all.
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...and of course that explains why it must be passed ::)
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No vote of any group is monolithic. But again the Angry Old White Guy Party will not get a sizable Hispanic minority unless it passes an immigration bill.
And when Xo actually comes out to denounce the bill, only THEN will I know how good it is for the GOP, and potentally get some notable portion of the Hispanic vote. The more he claims how "good this is for the GOP" the more I know just how bad it is
So, if the GOP wants to pass an immigration bill, by all means, start over, and lets start seeing those Democrat compromises, that were promised
I can say any damn thing I want. Your threats are futile. Your ignorance is abysmal.
What damn threats?? good gravy, more strawmen. When the hell did I ever say, or even imply that you can't say any damn thing you want??
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Is it in every Hispanics interest to employ a lot of non citizens here?
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That would be a no
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Well then , why should we assume that all Hispanic citizens of the US want to import a lot of cheap competition for jobs?
Are they uniformly strong chauvinists?
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That's the part I'm trying to explain to Xo, and like minds
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It will be interesting to see what happens between the black constituency and the hispanic constituency when they both compete for the same jobs.
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...It's called a cry for more Government assistance, with liberal Democrats grinning from ear to ear
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That won't go on long, from the other thread where whites are losing population.
If i were asian i'd worry.
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I don't think you have to be Asian to worry, I'm afraid
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Sirs says,
LOL....you best stop trying to push leftist talking points as fact, or you better start lining up more strawmen.
YOU BEST STOP TRYING.
That sounds rather threatening to me. I am not more intimidated by sirs than I would by the Pizza Noid or Mr Tooth Decay, though, even though he claims to be armed and (ooooooh!) dangerous.
There must be an immigration bill that allows current immigrants to become citizens. Tying it to border enforcement is just stupid. No one can or should seal the border. People jumping the fence makes good videos, but that is not the major problem.
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Wow....what a low bar you have to "feel threatened". Good thing I'm not near you, since if I sneezed in your direction, you'd have accused me of an assault
And yes, you stop the inflow of illegial immigration at the border, then you fix those inside. Otherwise, you've done nothing but allow an endless supply of illegal immigration. Name ONE other country that allows such access, not just into their country, but to so many tax payer provided programs, by non-nationals into their country
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Now you want to have a competition?
The border is important to a degree, but this is just a stalling technique to prevent anything from being passed by morons like Sessions of Alabama and similar imbeciles.
If that is added to the bill, then hundreds of suits to prevent the building of walls and surveillance equipment will be entered. Nothing will happen.
The GOP is doomed. They are running out of old stupid angry men.
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Now you want to have a competition?
Ummm.....competition? No, I asked what country provides the same access into both the country and tax payer payed resources. Can you name even 1?
The border is important to a degree, but this is just a stalling technique to prevent anything from being passed by morons like Sessions of Alabama and similar imbeciles.
No, its a starting point. But morons like Schumer & Reid want it all......and who can blame them....potential permanent minority status for the GOP? Of course they're going to push this, the way its written, and of course similar imbeciles are going to support that
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I wonder if eventually we'll all just become citizens of the world?
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Nope....Americans are too intimately connected to the ideals of Freedom and Liberty, for that to ever happen. FAR too many lives sacrificed for that Freedom & Liberty, to just hand over to some global body to take control
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We are all citizens of the world in many ways. We all have to pay what OPEC thinks oil is worth. Banks base their rates on the world markets.
And there is the US Declaration of Human Rights. Economics will force all countries to become more similar with every passing year.
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U.S. Constitution is pretty clear cut, I'm afraid. But good luck on trying to make Iran and China more like us
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China is already more like us than it was in the days of Mao or even the days of Deng,
Iran will eventually follow.
The US will also become more like other countries. This is not something I have an part in, so wishing me luck is a bit idiotic. I am an observer. All I do is vote and belong to a few groups like Public Citizen and Common Cause and stay informed.
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China is already more like us than it was in the days of Mao or even the days of Deng,
Iran will eventually follow.
The US will also become more like other countries. This is not something I have an part in, so wishing me luck is a bit idiotic.
The literal nazi strikes again. For a language professor you don't do rhetorical very well, do you. Talk about idiotic
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You could not pass a course in rhetoric with a dozen suppositories.
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Oooooooooo.......that's so funny.......oh my what a knee slapper........I'm rolling over and over at how sharp that wit is.........really ;D
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This is the administration that has refused to enforce the law....they have created new law out of nothing. They’ve violated the law in a number of ways. And our guys are counting on the administration to all of a sudden actually keep their word on something like securing the border when they’ve never done it before and they believe it’s in their political interest to continue not to secure the border even if there’s a deal? I mean that’s crazy to think they’re going to start securing the border and until we secure the border everything else is completely meaningless. -- Louie Gohmert
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The nation’s plutocrats are lined up with the Democratic Party in a short-term bid to get themselves cheap labor (subsidized by the rest of us), which will give the Democratic Party a permanent majority. If Rubio’s amnesty goes through, the Republican Party is finished. It will be the “Nancy Pelosi Democratic Party” versus the “Chuck Schumer Republican Party.” --
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The federal judge in Crane v. Napolitano has ruled that the ICE agents are likely to prevail in their argument that the Obama administration is ordering them to violate federal law. Think about that: This administration is ordering career law enforcement personnel to break the law. Now, the administration is pushing for an amnesty bill that contains almost nothing to improve immigration enforcement. All that the American citizens will get in return for the amnesty is the promise from the Obama administration that they will try harder to enforce the law. The administration has already shattered that promise, doing exactly the opposite. This is a stark warning to Congress. I sincerely hope that they hear it. -- Kris Kobach
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Almost every requirement in this bill can be waived by Janet Napolitano: for instance, the time limits on when people can be legalized, the requirements on criminal activity or even the enforcement triggers. Those basically don’t mean anything if any of them is held up in court, still. …The litigation over the 1986 bill didn’t end until just a few years ago. The ACLU has been quite clear that it intends to sue to stop mandatory e-verify and probably sue to stop a bunch of other things. If, for instance, mandatory use of electronic verification is still in the courts 10 years after the bill passes, it’s entirely possible the Secretary of Homeland Security can just give everybody Green Cards on her own — and there are hundreds of other examples of that kind of discretion. It’s not too much of an exaggeration to say that this 1,000 page bill after all of the amendments could be boiled down to, “We trust you, Obama; just do the right thing.” -- Mark Krikorian
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On every major front, this legislation fails to deliver on its core promises. It delivers only for the special interest groups who helped write it. Should it pass, it would represent the ultimate triumph of the Washington elite over the everyday citizen to whom Congress properly owes its loyalty. -- Jeff Sessions
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The "worst of both worlds" is quite literally Liberal Democrats in control of this country's Government, and Conservative Republicans put into a permanent minority status. (see California) That's what this bill, in its current form, is all about, and why Democrats like Schumer & Reid are looking to block any attempt alter its current form. Rubio has invested too much effort to not back "Comprehensive Immigration Reform", while messers Graham & McCain have always been advocating some form of
amnesty, oops, CIR. This has nothing to do with Republicans not wanting to pass immigration reform, merely that such reform starts with border/law enforcement. After that, the rest will fairly fall into place without the addition of a permanent GOP Minority. -- Sirs
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Jeff Sessions is a bigoted moron. No one needs clowns like him in the Senate. He is an embarrassment to even Alabama.
It is amusing to see these dinosaurs desperately trying to cling to the past.It calls to mind a T Rex trying to do pushups.
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SOP...name calling, on top of more immature name calling, on top of still more
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I wonder if eventually we'll all just become citizens of the world?
How does a patriot of the world behave?
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"How does a patriot of the world behave?"
Well, just how does a patriot of the world behave?
BSB
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I think Plane asked 1st. Good question too. What do you think?
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"How does a patriot of the world behave?"
Well, just how does a patriot of the world behave?
BSB
This is too Zen for me .
But from a Christian perspective we can all be brothers as we all can be brothers in Christ and God loved us all even before Christ.
This has not been enough to prevent an million bloody fights , but perhaps there was an million more that did not happen because of this potential of brotherly love.
I can't really know.
But I would have to guess that a patriot of the world would have to be a very tolerant fellow.
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I have news for you Plane, we already all are citizens of the world. So just look at your own actions for the answer to your question.
BSB
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Interesting non-answer ???
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Does "citizen of the world " carry more weight than "citizen of the universe"?
Either way there is an implacation of responsibility and relationship that has no force or benefit.
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There is no benefit in, or force behind, seeing yourself as a citizen of the world?
BSB
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There is no benefit in, or force behind, seeing yourself as a citizen of the world?
BSB
I could be wrong about this , what do you think?
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i guess we would have to define citizen to get closer to an answer.
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"i guess we would have to define citizen to get closer to an answer. "
Right, and I don't mean it legally necessarily. Although at some juncture I'm pretty sure that will happen. I mean it in terms of us all being subject to the same causes and conditions as human beings living and dying on this planet. We are all made of the same material. We all come and go. We are all connected in the most fundamental of ways. It may not appear that way much of the time, but that is the truth of it. All of us who are alive at this very second are all going to come to the same end no matter the specific cause. We are all, pretty much, threatened by the same diseases. Subject to the same outcomes and so forth. This should not be minimized. Our commonalities should be upmost in our minds, not our superficial differences.
BSB
BSB
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"i guess we would have to define citizen to get closer to an answer. "
Right, and I don't mean it legally necessarily. Although at some juncture I'm pretty sure that will happen. I mean it in terms of us all being subject to the same causes and conditions as human beings living and dying on this planet. We are all made of the same material. We all come and go. We are all connected in the most fundamental of ways. It may not appear that way much of the time, but that is the truth of it. All of us who are alive at this very second are all going to come to the same end no matter the specific cause. We are all, pretty much, threatened by the same diseases. Subject to the same outcomes and so forth. This should not be minimized. Our commonalities should be upmost in our minds, not our superficial differences.
BSB
BSB
Hey, I like that!