DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Christians4LessGvt on September 09, 2010, 10:48:00 AM
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All the outrage over one guy in a 50 person church burning a few Korans...
but where is the outrage over Muslims doing crap like shown in the video below?
Tell me...which is worse...buring a few Korans or burning humans?
(WARNING: Video is VERY GRAPHIC)
http://notalemming.wordpress.com/2010/09/02/the-violence-of-islam-and-sharia-law-welcome-the-ground-zero-mosque/ (http://notalemming.wordpress.com/2010/09/02/the-violence-of-islam-and-sharia-law-welcome-the-ground-zero-mosque/)
Ramadan 2010 Scorecard
Day 28
In the name of The Religion of Peace
Terror Attacks 201
In the name of All Other Religions
Terror Attacks 1
In the name of The Religion of Peace
Dead Bodies - 937
In the name of All Other Religions
Dead Bodies - 1
ANY QUESTIONS?
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Do you think this proposed burning of the Koran is a good idea?
Does the location of the bonfire matter?
The pastor reputedly is a Christian.
Does this action reflect badly on the whole of Christianity?
Do you think that this proposed action makes the troops job in Afghanistan and Iraq harder?
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I am really pissed off at this so-called preacher. This man is no more a man of God than Jeremiah Wright. If this man were truly a Christian he would not be doing this stupid, evil, cowardly, hateful act.
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I don't know if it is cowardly. He is willing to break the law in the course of expressing his beliefs.
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I don't know if it is cowardly. He is willing to break the law in the course of expressing his beliefs.
His heart is not that of a Jesus loving person, that is for sure. This burning of the Koran doesn't fit into anything Jesus would promote. In my opinion anyway. I can't imagine listening to a fool like this preach. I guess that's why he has only 50 people attending his services. Seems as if this burning doesn't fit into the requirements for his church to be a non-profit. I know Obama would never revoke his non-profit status because then he would have to remove other hate places like Rev Wrights shit-hole.
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"Do you think this proposed burning of the Koran is a good idea?"
BT do you think burning humans is a good idea?
and possibly should be higher on the outrage scale?
But to answer your question...I really don't understand what the idea is?
I am assuming it is a show of anger over the wussification concerning Islam.
and btw this story and your type of reaction is another example of that wussification.
But do I think it is a good idea?....No quite honestly I'd rather bomb the enemy
than burn some stupid Koran to piss them off. The hell with burning a Koran...
better like Patton said in the movie I wanna "use the enemy's body to grease the
wheels of our tanks"....destruction of the enemy works...pandering doesn't.
"Does the location of the bonfire matter?"
As far as what?
I don't see what the location really matters...
If it's in Florida, Texas, Iowa, Cali, or Paris...people would still be pissed.
I mean if you're gonna do it...do it at ground zero!
"The pastor reputedly is a Christian.
Does this action reflect badly on the whole of Christianity?"
Oh I dunno...
In my mind...it's like comparing a speeding ticket to a mass murderer.
I doubt the TSA is very concerned.
Yeah all religious groups have nuts...
The problem is no other religious group has nuts blowing up airplanes,
buildings, and people on any where near the scale as Islam.
And to deny that fact or attempt to avoid that truth is WUSSIFICATION.
Reality is what it is..... Islam has a major, major violence problem.
"Do you think that this proposed action makes the
troops job in Afghanistan and Iraq harder?"
Not really....maybe yes...maybe no
it's so inconsequential really as far as the big picture
what actually makes it harder is wussification
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Well you know how Christians are.
They like to burn things, ban things and otherwise tell people how to live their lives.
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Damn Muslims
(http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2005/01/31/iraqink_wideweb__430x343.jpg)
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I don't know if it is cowardly. He is willing to break the law in the course of expressing his beliefs.
It's against the law? Is it not akin to burning a flag, which has been declared protected under freedom of speech?
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It is not cowardly, as has been pointed out, he is doing this in public.
It is not illegal, either: you can destroy anything that belongs to you. It might violate laws against open fires, such as those against burning trash inside the city limits.
If burning the national flag is protected free speech, burning a Koran is clearly protected free speech as well.
It is simply a stupid provocation by a stupid and hateful man. None of his church's 50 members seem to agree with it.
The idea that one ideology can triumph over another through silly ritual acts like this one is a fallacious one.
I think someone sent Bibles in Pashtun and maybe some other languages to some soldiers in Afghanistan to be given to the locals, and the US military confiscated and destroyed them, but that was not done publicly and was done to prevent the Afghans getting pissed off at the US military.
The only purpose of this fool doing this is to annoy Muslims. I do not see how he can be arrested or prosecuted, though.
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It is not cowardly, as has been pointed out, he is doing this in public.
It is not illegal, either: you can destroy anything that belongs to you. It might violate laws against open fires, such as those against burning trash inside the city limits.
If burning the national flag is protected free speech, burning a Koran is clearly protected free speech as well.
It is simply a stupid provocation by a stupid and hateful man. None of his church's 50 members seem to agree with it.
The idea that one ideology can triumph over another through silly ritual acts like this one is a fallacious one.
I think someone sent Bibles in Pashtun and maybe some other languages to some soldiers in Afghanistan to be given to the locals, and the US military confiscated and destroyed them, but that was not done publicly and was done to prevent the Afghans getting pissed off at the US military.
The only purpose of this fool doing this is to annoy Muslims. I do not see how he can be arrested or prosecuted, though.
So doing it in the safety of home in the USA isn't cowardly? Let's see him do it in downtown Saudi Arabia then I will say he's not a COWARD!!! Otherwise he's a coward.
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"Do you think this proposed burning of the Koran is a good idea?"
BT do you think burning humans is a good idea?
and possibly should be higher on the outrage scale?
But to answer your question...I really don't understand what the idea is?
I am assuming it is a show of anger over the wussification concerning Islam.
and btw this story and your type of reaction is another example of that wussification.
But do I think it is a good idea?....No quite honestly I'd rather bomb the enemy
than burn some stupid Koran to piss them off. The hell with burning a Koran...
better like Patton said in the movie I wanna "use the enemy's body to grease the
wheels of our tanks"....destruction of the enemy works...pandering doesn't.
"Does the location of the bonfire matter?"
As far as what?
I don't see what the location really matters...
If it's in Florida, Texas, Iowa, Cali, or Paris...people would still be pissed.
I mean if you're gonna do it...do it at ground zero!
"The pastor reputedly is a Christian.
Does this action reflect badly on the whole of Christianity?"
Oh I dunno...
In my mind...it's like comparing a speeding ticket to a mass murderer.
I doubt the TSA is very concerned.
Yeah all religious groups have nuts...
The problem is no other religious group has nuts blowing up airplanes,
buildings, and people on any where near the scale as Islam.
And to deny that fact or attempt to avoid that truth is WUSSIFICATION.
Reality is what it is..... Islam has a major, major violence problem.
"Do you think that this proposed action makes the
troops job in Afghanistan and Iraq harder?"
Not really....maybe yes...maybe no
it's so inconsequential really as far as the big picture
what actually makes it harder is wussification
CU4 wake up and stop being narrow-minded and petty like XO. I know you are bigger than this.
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Committing stupid acts is not cowardly. It is just being stupid.
The Saudis do not admit tourists except for Muslim tourists and then only in the Hadj season.
Saudi Arabia is off limits to foreigners other than invited guests. I imagine that George W. or his father could go there anytime they wished.
When Michael Palin did one of his round-the-world trips, the Saudis allowed him 48 hours to cross the country in a taxi without a cameraman. There are some ancient ruins that are worth look, according to a guidebook I have written by an ex-Aramco employee, but you need special permission from someone high up in the government to get a visa. I am pretty sure once someone tells the world that Islam is of the Devil, he is not going to get a visa from any Arabian peninsula country.
It might be brave, but stupid to burn a Koran in Mecca, but it is also impossible for him to go there.
There is no cowardly or brave way to burn a book, just as there is no cowardly way to eat lunch or play ping-pong.
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Committing stupid acts is not cowardly. It is just being stupid.
The Saudis do not admit tourists except for Muslim tourists and then only in the Hadj season.
Saudi Arabia is off limits to foreigners other than invited guests. I imagine that George W. or his father could go there anytime they wished.
When Michael Palin did one of his round-the-world trips, the Saudis allowed him 48 hours to cross the country in a taxi without a cameraman. There are some ancient ruins that are worth look, according to a guidebook I have written by an ex-Aramco employee, but you need special permission from someone high up in the government to get a visa. I am pretty sure once someone tells the world that Islam is of the Devil, he is not going to get a visa from any Arabian peninsula country.
It might be brave, but stupid to burn a Koran in Mecca, but it is also impossible for him to go there.
There is no cowardly or brave way to burn a book, just as there is no cowardly way to eat lunch or play ping-pong.
He's a coward because people that do such things are typically insecure. Insecure people tend to be cowards like the Lion on the Wizard of Oz.
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It's against the law? Is it not akin to burning a flag, which has been declared protected under freedom of speech?
Apparently in his locale he needs a permit to build a bonfire, which he was denied.
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Apparently in his locale he needs a permit to build a bonfire, which he was denied.
He could probably buy one of these and not need a permit.
(http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/00/88/19/04/03/0088190403802_215X215.jpg)
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Better-Homes-and-Garden-Iron-Outdoor-Fire-Pit/7976522 (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Better-Homes-and-Garden-Iron-Outdoor-Fire-Pit/7976522)
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Yeah but where are the headlines in that?
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Yeah but where are the headlines in that?
what are they gunna do hang him, put him in jail for 20 years? It's probably just a misdemeanor punishable with a fine or no more than 90 days in the slammer.
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Yeah but where are the headlines in that?
I don't think the size of the flames is what will get the headlines,
but I could be wrong....maybe he would need a big fire.
BTW....as we are all OUTRAGED about burning the book...the Ramadan Death Toll Passed 1000 today!!!
Now after reviewing all the deaths and dead bodies radical Muslims caused in the name of Islam
lets go back to spending our time on what we should really be outraged about! ::)
2010.09.09 (Yala, Thailand) - Muslims shoot a 52-year-old Buddhist in the head and kick his body under a bridge.
2010.09.09 (Vladikavkaz, Russia) - A Shahid drives an explosives-laden vehicle into a market, blasting seventeen shoppers to bits.
2010.09.09 (Mogadishu, Somalia) - Five Fedayeen suicide bombers storm an airport and kill nine others, including two women.
2010.09.09 (Kurram, Pakistan) - Militants murder ten bus passengers with an explosive device.
2010.09.09 (Diyala, Iraq) - A woman is beheaded in her own home by suspected al-Qaeda insurgents.
2010.09.09 (Muqdadiya, Iraq) - A cleric is beheaded and set on fire by Freedom Fighters.
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Looks like Muslims are slackers. Christians in Mexico have killed that many in a quarter.
Damn Christians.
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Looks like Muslims are slackers. Christians in Mexico have killed that many in a quarter.
Damn Christians.
Nice try Dr. BT!...but sir that is what we call an apples to oranges alert!
but dont feel bad it is not an uncommon attempt at moral equivalence...
AKA "wussification excuses" to hide the truth about islam
this isn't a discussion about crime in general
in this discussion we are talking about korans, religions, people motivated by their religion
the killings in Mexico are not motivated by religion
the murderers in Mexico are not religious extremist quoting the Bible as their motivation
come on....
the murderers in Mexico have no goal to set up a government based on religious law (sharia)
it's a ridiculous and non-logical analogy
no one claims there are not other forms of "bad guys" in the world besides whackjobs motivated by Islam
but it is a reality that no other religion on the planet has the violent extremist motivated and
quoting the religion as their motivation to blow up, murder, maim, people all over the globe.
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Just to be clear, you are less concerned about the casualties than you are the reasons given for those casualties?
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The idiocy and fanaticism of select Muslims does not justify stupid symbolic gestures by a silly Christian preacher.
"There is no need to seek a rhyme for a fart," as the saying goes.
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Just to be clear, you are less concerned about the casualties than you are the reasons given for those casualties?
Just to be clear...I am not "less concerned" about victims of crime from
other sources but I see it as "a dodge" to bring up violence not in any way
connected to religion when the subject is discussing & comparing violence
and terror motivated by religions. To equate and pretend that Mexican drug
wars are somehow connected with Christianity is ludicrous in my mind.
Mexican drug lords that are killing people aren't proclaiming they are doing
what they do because of anything related to or connected to Christianity.....
but al-Qaida and other radical Muslims sure do proclaim their connection to Islam.
Why pretend Islam like no other current religion has a very serious world wide
well financed problem within it's midst? Is political correctness so pervasive that
it is difficult to admit the obvious?
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Drug lords are to Christianity as terrorists are to Islam.
Does it really matter that they couch their violence in religious terms? Dead is dead no matter the reason.
That's the problem with broad brushes.
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"Drug lords are to Christianity as terrorists are to Islam"
How so?
I see zero connection with drug Lords and Christianity.
Can you provide any sources showing Mexican drug lords using Christianity as their motivation?
Can you provide any sources of drug lords wanting to overthrow gvts & set up Christian nations?
Can you provide any sources of drug lords quoting the bible to justify their crimes?
Can you provide any sources of drug lords shouting Allahu Akbar or Jesus Is Great while killing their victims?
Are you trying to argue Radical Islam is not connected to Islam?
Do you deny the existence of "Radical Islam"?
Radical Islam carries out violence in the name of Islam on the front pages on newspapers daily worldwide.
What other religious entities bring suicide bombers killing innocents almost daily?
Does it really matter that they couch their violence in religious terms?
Yes....if the discussion involves violence coming from religions.
Are you saying that is an "off limits" topic?
Should we not discuss if one religion has a major problem within it?
is that Shhhhhh we can't discuss reality?
political correctness wants to shield and hide from whats really going on?
Dead is dead no matter the reason.
So if people all of sudden are dying from one cause
that cause should not be discussed on it's own merits
because people still die from other causes?
Dead is dead but if one entity is causing more deaths
of innocents than other entities then why avoid the topic?
Pretend that Islam & most worldwide terror attacks are not related?
Ignoring reality is dangerous.
That's the problem with broad brushes.
Broad brushes are a problem, but stating there is a huge problem
within Islam where people motivated by Islam are using violence
in the name of Islam to kill and maim thousands of people is not
a "broad brush" it is a statement of undeniable fact.
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How so?
Mexico is by a vast majority a Christian nation.
Mexican drug lords by definition are Mexican and therefore most likely Christian. More likely Catholic, lapsed or otherwise.
I never claimed that religion was the drug lords motivation. But the fact remains that they are most likely Christian.
And because of that all of Christianity is to blame for their sins.
That's the logic with Islam isn't it? Terrorists are Muslim ergo Islam has a problem.
We are at war with terror, should we declare open season on Middle easterners because the vast majority are Muslim?
Is that how it works?
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But the fact remains that they are most likely Christian.
And because of that all of Christianity is to blame for their sins.
Yes Christianity would have a very serious problem if the Mexican drug lords were actually
stating over and over and over and over again that the reason they were killing all their victims
was entirely because they were motivated by Christianity. Of course that is not anywhere
near reality...again a ridiculous analogy.
That's the logic with Islam isn't it? Terrorists are Muslim ergo Islam has a problem.
Yes that is pretty much reality.
If most of the terrorists killing people everyday say they are doing it because of Islam, then yeah Islam has a problem.
We are at war with terror, should we declare open season on
Middle easterners because the vast majority are Muslim? Is that how it works?
Uh no...but implying racism is a nice fall-back lately when people speak the truth about
politically incorrect sacred off limit topics. We are at war with terror and Muslim terrorists
are a very, very large part of worldwide terrorism.
BTW...as we approach the ninth anniversary of Sept 11, do you think the motivation
of the Sept 11 terrorists is an "insignificant fact" that should not be reported in historical
reports of the event? Going forward as a society should we not mention the motivation
for the largest terror attack in US history because someone might be offended?
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I think Bin Ladens motivation was political. And couching it in religious terms is just a means to gain recruits. His goal primarily is to get the infidels out of the middle east and to punish the Saudi royalty for allowing them to come in.
When he was on our side he wanted to get rid of the Soviets. Now he wants us out of there. Nothing spiritual about it.
To be quite honest with you , i would be happy if the entire middle east were turned to glass. And i seriously doubt if that falls under a PC mantra.
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I think Bin Ladens motivation was political. And couching it in religious terms is just a means to gain recruits.
To be quite honest with you , i would be happy if the entire middle east were turned to glass.
Well we can finally pretty much agree on something in this thread.
Yeah Bin Laden (and in my opinion Islam) is not just a religious movement but a political total control entity.
I don't think the Pope wants to write legislation in Washington or other capitals, but I think Muslim Clerics do.
In my opinion Islam wants to control not just the spiritual, but government, the press, ect... as well.
Thats why I find it odd that Islam appears to be the only religion passionately defended by the American Left.
Oh wait a minute...maybe....ummm....now I get it....it's because Islam is basically an anti-American, anti-Western "religion"!
Maybe the Left & liberals stand up for Islam because it is an anti-American, anti-Western "religion", & they identify with that.
Yes....they have a common bond!
Muslim Leader Admits Islam Not a Religion of Peace (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64V09tTIjR4#ws)
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I don't think the Pope wants to write legislation in Washington or other capitals, but I think Muslim Clerics do.
Yeah that's why they have remained neutral about Roe vs Wade, and that's why Catholic Bishops want to excommunicate Catholic Democrat Senators because of their position on abortion.
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I'm still waiting to see the memo on the Mexican Drug cartels, demonstrating their goals are Christian motivated, analogus to Islamic Terrorists demonstrating their goals as Islamically motivated. You know, in order to qualify the "isn't that how it works" remarks
I'll look forward to seeing & reading those apples to apples comparisons
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Yeah that's why they have remained neutral about Roe vs Wade, and that's why Catholic Bishops
want to excommunicate Catholic Democrat Senators because of their position on abortion.
So you think the Pope wants to be like the Supreme Leader in Iran.... Khamenei?
Ya know BT it's fun and educational arguing the ridiculous with you!
The hell with the liberals....you're much more fun! LOL
(http://www.thewe.cc/thewei/_/images10/iran/ayatollah_khamenei.jpe)
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I'm still waiting to see the memo on the Mexican Drug cartels, demonstrating their goals are Christian motivated, analogus to Islamic Terrorists demonstrating their goals as Islamically motivated. You know, in order to qualify the "isn't that how it works" remarks
I'll look forward to seeing & reading those apples to apples comparisons
Where did i claim that the Cartels were religiously motivated. Do you make up stuff as you go along.
What i did claim was that Cartel membership was mostly Christian, just as current terrorist ranks are mostly Muslim.
It is you who seems to think the religion of a perp is relevant.
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I'm still waiting to see the memo on the Mexican Drug cartels, demonstrating their goals are Christian motivated, analogus to Islamic Terrorists demonstrating their goals as Islamically motivated. You know, in order to qualify the "isn't that how it works" remarks
I'll look forward to seeing & reading those apples to apples comparisons
SIRS...his whole goal is "moral equivalence"....no matter how ridiculous.
Ya know how it goes.
Charles Manson the mass murderer broke the law.
A jaywalker breaks the law.
Charles Manson and the jaywalker are both law breakers.
Therefore lets imply Charles Manson and the jaywalker are the same.
Well yeah....they are both lawbreakers.....but WTF?
LOL
The Mullahs in Iran dictate policy and run the country with an iron fist.
Since the Pope or other Christians have an opinion on political issues and use that right.
Therefore the Pope and the Mullahs must be one in the same.
Or at least...lets try a "real reach"...and kind of imply that thought to push "moral equivalence"....
::)
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I'm still waiting to see the memo on the Mexican Drug cartels, demonstrating their goals are Christian motivated, analogus to Islamic Terrorists demonstrating their goals as Islamically motivated. You know, in order to qualify the "isn't that how it works" remarks
I'll look forward to seeing & reading those apples to apples comparisons
Where did i claim that the Cartels were religiously motivated. Do you make up stuff as you go along.
Nope, just trying to keep things honest, if we're trying to make (dare I say) radical comparisons. If you're trying to compare Christians to drug cartels as Islam to terrorists, you're going to need to provide a similar religious justification being used by the Cartels as Muslim terrorists are using with Islam
What i did claim was that Cartel membership was mostly Christian, just as current terrorist ranks are mostly Muslim.
And Completely irrelevent, not to mention purely speculative on both accounts. One is race/ethnicity, the other is merely a label. Reminds me of those who decry racial profiling of hispanics with SB 1070, if a hispanic gets pulled over, when 95+% of the illegal immigrants crossing the southern border, happen to be or appear hispanic. You have the cart in front of the horse, I'm afraid
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Nope, just trying to keep things honest
Then i suggest you do so. As a first step, you can show where i claimed the Cartels acted because of religious convictions.
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May I also suggest that you practice what you preach. It was YOUR words Drug lords are to Christianity as terrorists are to Islam. I'm just trying to keep your comparison on an apples to apples level
What makes "Terrorists are to Islam"? Answer that and you have the answer to your question
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I'm sorry you are being dishonest again.
Show where i claimed that the drug lords actions were religiously motivated. It's a simple request.
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Interesting broken record you're on here. What makes "Terrorists are to Islam"? Simple inquiry. That answer answer, answers yours