DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: sirs on October 21, 2011, 07:58:56 PM
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Gallup: Obama's Eleventh Quarter Approval Average Lowest Since...
(http://www.visitingdc.com/images/jimmy-carter-picture.jpg)
As Katie notes below, President Obama's average approval has reached a new low. has But wait, liberals will inevitably counter, Obama's average approval rating is in the same ballpark as Ronald Reagan's at this juncture of his presidency. Let's take a look at Gallup's numbers (since Eisenhower):
(http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/ljg-7uwbtusj7t66wz_dnq.gif)
Reagan's recession-battered numbers were limping along in 1983, but the seeds for a massive economic recovery -- both in terms of GDP and employment -- were about to sprout and florish. He coasted to re-election, winning 49 states. What policies did Reagan implement? Among other things, he
- cut marginal income tax rates and
- famously stood up to an agressive government sector union.
Based on Obama's proposed and enacted policies, is anyone holding their breath for a dramatic turnaround in the next 13 months? The White House certainly isn't. Take a look at this graph from Heritage, which illustrates Obama's employment "recovery," compared to Reagan's:
(http://www.foundry.org/wp-content/uploads/recovery-graphs400.jpg)
Sixteen months after the Carter recession ended, the US employment rate had shed three full points. The Obama White House's own estimates project that the current unemployment will more-or-less flatline through all of next year. One other interesting note: George H. W. Bush's approval rating was sky high in 1991 because of the first Gulf War, yet he failed to secure re-election. Why?
"It's the economy, stupid." Ahem. (http://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybenson/2011/10/21/gallup_obamas_eleventh_quarter_approval_average_lowest_since)
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The important issue is who has the best plan for recovery.
The Republican'ts have no plan at all. Just more about the magical effects of cutting taxes for the rich.
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The important issue is who has the best plan for recovery.
The Republican'ts have no plan at all. Just more about the magical effects of cutting taxes for the rich.
I like the simple plan -- replace Obama and the economy will get better.
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The important issue is who has the best plan for recovery.
Well, considering Obama and the Demasames want to simply push the same garbage that exacerbated the current mess, while the Republiwills want to enact policies similar to what Reagan did, that pulled us out of Carter's recession........pretty much a no-brainer there
Except for those with no brain, and can't look past their next republirant
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Fuck Ronald Reagan but even he had the brains to pull out of Lebanon once the Marine barracks there was blown to bits. In the golden time of blessed Saint Ronny, the American Treasury hadn't been looted and the American working class still had jobs that paid the rent or the mortgage. This is a different time, and tax breaks for the rich and continued militarism and empire building are no longer affordable.
Personally I would love nothing better than to see Cain whipping Obama's and Hillary's sorry asses in the next election. First because I have come to totally loathe both Obama and Hillary, not only because they are sanctimonious hypocrites, but because of their blatant murders, continuing support of their murderous client state, Israel, and their non-stop caving to the Republican right and every imaginable special interest on domestic issues such as the abolition of even the public option from health-care "reform" and the continuation of tax breaks for the rich, two examples out of many. But mainly because the U.S. is not yet in a pre-Revolutionary situation, and I can think of no one better able than Mr. Cain to bring on true pre-Revolutionary conditions in the shortest possible time. I would love to see that fucking idiot put in charge of The World's Only Terrorist Superpower. Not even George W. Bush could drive the car over the cliff any faster.
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Reagan cut taxes in his first term. There was a massive recession. In his second term, he raised taxes, because there was insufficient revenue. What Reagan did at first threw many out of work and many more out of their homes and onto the street.
Times are vastly different now,and nothing anyone did in the 1980's could be repeated.
No Republican't has a plan for ending the current recession. Obama's plan is the best one anyone has proposed. It is unlikely that Cain or Romney would be better at pulling the country out of the recession than Obama.
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You'll now demonstrate where he raised taxes, to support a portion of your opinion. The latter part is moot, since his policies helped return many of those back to their home and back to work
And its asanine to claim "nothing" done 30years ago could help now
No Demasame plan that perptuates the same horroble repercussions is going to end this recession. Obama's plan is the worst possible this nation could be subjected to, end of story
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Reagan cut taxes in his first term. There was a massive recession. In his second term, he raised taxes, because there was insufficient revenue. What Reagan did at first threw many out of work and many more out of their homes and onto the street.
Times are vastly different now,and nothing anyone did in the 1980's could be repeated.
No Republican't has a plan for ending the current recession. Obama's plan is the best one anyone has proposed. It is unlikely that Cain or Romney would be better at pulling the country out of the recession than Obama.
Good, I'm hoping under the 9-9-9 plan taxes go up for people not paying them and down for people paying too much.
Cain is looker more and more viable these days. You will soon be eating all your dumb words.
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Good, I'm hoping under the 9-9-9 plan taxes go up for people not paying them and down for people paying too much.
Me too. The bottom 50% who don't pay any taxes should have some skin in the game so that they would care more about the increasing size of government.
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Good, I'm hoping under the 9-9-9 plan taxes go up for people not paying them and down for people paying too much.
Me too. The bottom 50% who don't pay any taxes should have some skin in the game so that they would care more about the increasing size of government.
Speaking of the 9-9-9 plan will all the other taxes go away, like the tax on cell phone use, cable TV, home phone, etc?
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Yeah, I think so. Cain talked about getting rid of the hidden taxes on items. He says there are 4 hidden taxes in a loaf of bread, for example. He would do away with them. This will all be very exciting if he gets elected and starts proposing his different tax reforms. Wouldn't it be better though if it were just a 9-9 plan, with no national sales tax?
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Yeah, I think so. Cain talked about getting rid of the hidden taxes on items. He says there are 4 hidden taxes in a loaf of bread, for example. He would do away with them. This will all be very exciting if he gets elected and starts proposing his different tax reforms. Wouldn't it be better though if it were just a 9-9 plan, with no national sales tax?
The sales tax has been met with a lot of skepticism. If as Cain says prices go down on products then the tax shouldn't be a problem as long as they (Congress) can never ever be raise it. Cain said that prices will go down because companies will save a lot of money that currently is being passed on to consumers. The upside on the tax is a little of the underground economy will be taxed. I'm also concerned about state sales tax because when they are combined, as in say CA, I am looking at about 17%.
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The 9-9-9 plan has far teensier chance of passing than Cain has of being nominated.
It is just a gimmick proposed by a crackpot in a great whacking rant
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So...no link to where Regan raised taxes, in an effort to increase revenues yet?? No surprise there.
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Wouldn't it be better though if it were just a 9-9 plan, with no national sales tax?
The sales tax captures those who shelter funds through the underground economy. Plus it reminds voters every time they make a purchase how expensive the federal government is, and possibly make them question the benefit of a lot of the programs those taxes go to.
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Bad week for the leftest gang
- Polls as bad as Carter
- Obamination Care starting to come aprt, even before its been fully implimented
- 2nd Highest Annual Deficit in history
And (no surprise here, since even I haven't heard about it from the likes of the MSM, but apparently
- Billionaire Obama donor backer and major Solyndra investor, George Kaiser, has paid almost zero taxes (http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/article/solyndra-funder-kaiser-paid-zero-taxes-years) over the last decade
Is it any wonder the "timing" of the decision to bring troops home from Iraq, right before the election cycle goes full bore?
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<<Bad week for the leftest gang>>
Obama a leftist? LMFAO.
a "Leftist" who took the public option out of health care; who refuses to prosecute torturers and those who ordered torture, even though obligated by binding international convention signed and ratified by the USA to do so, who murders US citizens by drone without any of their due Fifth Amendment rights, who has refused to end the process of rendition and who is removing trials from American courts in favour of military tribunals, who threw Elizabeth Warren AND Van Jones under the bus . . .
Yeah, SOME fuckin' leftist!!! One more term of this "leftist" and you can change the national anthem of the country to the Horst Wessel Lied.
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Yeah, SOME fuckin' leftist!!! One more term of this "leftist" and you can change the national anthem of the country to the Horst Wessel Lied.
One trick pony. Calling everyone who disagrees with you a Nazi is pretty lame.
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<<Bad week for the leftest gang>>
Obama a leftist? LMFAO.
Yea, been that way since the beginning, especially on the domestic front. If he had his way, he would have had the Public option, and a whole host of more taxes and regulations. It was your squishy Dems, worried about relection, that screwed him, of the "fundamental change" he so campaigned on,.....and ironically still is.
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If Obama had the influence of LBJ in Congress, the healthcare bill probably would have been far better. But there was no LBJ in the White House or anywhere near Washington, so Obama did what he had to do.
First, he noticed that when the Clintons proposed a bill, it was attacked and destroyed from within by lobbyists, so he let Congress hash out the details first, and only came in to swing around what weight he had at the end. This resulted in a more complex and inferior bill than simply giving everyone Medicare. All in all, I think he did all he could with what he had.
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If Obama had the influence of LBJ in Congress, the healthcare bill probably would have been far better. But there was no LBJ in the White House or anywhere near Washington, so Obama did what he had to do.
First, he noticed that when the Clintons proposed a bill, it was attacked and destroyed from within by lobbyists, so he let Congress hash out the details first, and only came in to swing around what weight he had at the end. This resulted in a more complex and inferior bill than simply giving everyone Medicare. All in all, I think he did all he could with what he had.
If it is worth doing it is worth doing right. Obama didn't do that. I don't see how he can claim that failure as a victory and or an accomplishment.
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<<Calling everyone who disagrees with you a Nazi is pretty lame.>>
It was an obviously exaggerated prediction made to emphasize a point. Which I am sure you yourself must have recognized. Your indignation is nothing more than a pose. As a statement of fact, the idea that the USA is seriously in danger of adopting the Horst Wessel Lied as its national anthem is ridiculous. Only a moron could take it seriously. And before you start pretending that I called you a moron, I don't think for a minute that you took that as a serious prediction. Just more posturing on your part.
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XO, you make one excuse after another for this con artist and sell-out maven.
EVERY SINGLE ONE of his lame-assed sell-outs can be blamed on GOP/Blue Dog sand-bagging? I don't think so. Where is leadership? Where is the "bully pulpit?" Nobody would hold it against an elected representative if he fought the good fight and lost. HE NEVER FOUGHT!!! Common sense, in retrospect, tells us everything we need to know about him - - he wouldn't have gotten anywhere near the position he held even before he became the Democratic candidate if he hadn't already sold out again and again and again.
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If it is worth doing it is worth doing right. Obama didn't do that. I don't see how he can claim that failure as a victory and or an accomplishment.
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That is just a simplistic statement. You are saying: "If we cannot have perfection, we should not have anything".
We went down that road before when Ted Kennedy and Nixon disagreed. Now everyone acknowledges that even Nixon;s plan would have been a huge improvement.
Face it: perfection is impossible in this country. People are too diverse and too stubborn.
President Obama tried to do it right. He did the best he could against immense opposition. No one else managed to do it, and he did it.
Once we have any sort of program, it can be improved.
It's like waking up and discovering that you are naked and it is 40ºF. The first thing you do is put something on, whatever you can find: a towel, a pinafore, a parka, a bedsheet, whatever. Once you have something on, you can lok for something else.
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Your indignation is nothing more than a pose.
I am not indignant - just pointing out that you pretty much do nothing but call people who disagree with you "Nazis". Sometimes you're more creative about it, but that's pretty much all you do.
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XO, you make one excuse after another for this con artist and sell-out maven.
EVERY SINGLE ONE of his lame-assed sell-outs can be blamed on GOP/Blue Dog sand-bagging? I don't think so. Where is leadership? Where is the "bully pulpit?" Nobody would hold it against an elected representative if he fought the good fight and lost. HE NEVER FOUGHT!!!
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I do not know what conversations went on that I did not hear. I agree that Obama should have fought more. I felt that Hillary was better qualified, for obvious reasons, but Obama was still vastly better than McCain, and I did not have a chance to vote for Hillary.
When this country was founded, we had the best democratic system of government of anywhere on Earth. But there were flaws in the system: a two-party system was one (though it is not legally part of the system), the Electoral College is another, and a deliberately contentious government is the worst. Our government is designed to be inefficient and contentious. Because of the greedhead mega rich, we now have a huge stalemate that exploits this defect in every way. We are still better off than the Thais, but it is a mess,and I see no chance of it changing.
I am sure that there are problems in the Great White North as well that we do not have, but I am not the expert on your government that you seem to be on ours.
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<< . . . you pretty much do nothing but call people who disagree with you "Nazis".>>
You're a scientific fellow. Why don't you count my last 20 or 30 or 40 posts and see how many of them consisted of "pretty much nothing but calling my opponents "Nazis?" Should be close to 100% according to you.
On second thought, don't bother because we both know that you're all fulla shit. Or maybe you're just itching for another flame war. Sorry but I don't have the time for it. Nice try, though.
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That is just a simplistic statement. You are saying: "If we cannot have perfection, we should not have anything".
That is not what i am saying at all. But riddle me this, if and when Obamacare gets ruled unconstitutional, or is repealed or is otherwise neutered, did passing an obviously imperfect bill do more harm to the cause of universal health care than passing nothing at all?
I think it did.
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<<I am sure that there are problems in the Great White North as well that we do not have, but I am not the expert on your government that you seem to be on ours.>>
We seem to be governed by responsible adults whether or not I agree with them and you seem to be governed by irresponsible lunatics. Sure we have troubles, like everyone else, but the U.S.A. has major problems that they can't solve; only with a little luck, they can kick them down the road a little ways, for the next crop of irresponsible lunatics to deal with.
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<<I am sure that there are problems in the Great White North as well that we do not have, but I am not the expert on your government that you seem to be on ours.>>
We seem to be governed by responsible adults whether or not I agree with them and you seem to be governed by irresponsible lunatics. Sure we have troubles, like everyone else, but the U.S.A. has major problems that they can't solve; only with a little luck, they can kick them down the road a little ways, for the next crop of irresponsible lunatics to deal with.
Liberalism has a lot of lunatics in it's ranks.
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Your indignation is nothing more than a pose.
I am not indignant - just pointing out that you pretty much do nothing but call people who disagree with you "Nazis". Sometimes you're more creative about it, but that's pretty much all you do.
Not true , when the person who disagrees with him is black he calls him an "unkle Tom".
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<<Bad week for the leftest gang>>
Obama a leftist? LMFAO.
BHO is as left as can possibly be elected in the USA.
It is time for the pendlum to swing back,
it won't help to minimise the genuine leftness of Obama
Now we should straighten our course by electing the most right canadate we can.
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<<BHO is as left as can possibly be elected in the USA.>>
That is absurd. He's a charlatan, talks left, walks right. You need the real thing. Further to the left than FDR. Further than Kucinich. You need REAL left and those folks occupying Wall Street aren't fooled one bit by Obama's phony bullshit.
<<It is time for the pendlum to swing back,>>
Yeah - - before it's swung forward. Guys like you never get it, plane. You're part of the problem, not part of the solution. "More of same! More of same!" is not only your motto, but the only thing you know. You'll probably get your wish, which is OK with me, because I'm a big believer in things having to get worse before they can get better. In which case, Cain, Perry or Bachman will do just fine, Romney might just slow down the rot a little better than the others, but he'll sure give Wall Street a free hand to continue doing what they do best - - scamming, ripping off, defrauding.
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Your indignation is nothing more than a pose.
I am not indignant - just pointing out that you pretty much do nothing but call people who disagree with you "Nazis". Sometimes you're more creative about it, but that's pretty much all you do.
Not true , when the person who disagrees with him is black he calls him an "unkle Tom".
"unkle Tom"
Which we all agree is same as calling him a house nigger.
Well, besides the obvious, another good thing about airing people like Thomas Sowell and black men like Herman Cain running for POTUS is it brings out of the woodwork a pair of racist Democrat sympathizers. Two resident racists are XO and Mikey. These two have called just about every black person they dislike Uncle Toms. And to think they have been labeling others racists for an awfully long time and somewhat getting away with it.
XO thought it was funny when a racist cartoon came out about Condoleezza Rice.
Let's not forget that these two bigots have used some exceedingly foul terminology to excoriate women they dislike. Women, and mothers of small children like Sarah Palin, and then there's Condoleezza Rice, & Michelle Bachmann. So XO & Mikey aren't limited to just being a pair of racists, they hate women too. I think children of people they hate also get similar treatment from them.
So there you have it, two highly opinionated people that are as left as anyone could possibly be and they have not even a shred of kindness towards people that don't ascribe to their point of view.
I dare say this is the same mentality that causes holocausts & ethnic cleansing all over the globe. A special kind of intolerance that crosses over to hate, which in turn can incite other like-minded people to do very harmful things to innocent people.
And they are OK with Al Sharpton's international attempts to pin rape & battery charges against innocent white people (on two seperate occasions) and ruin innocent peoples lives to feed a movement. All because Al Sharpton mirrors their sick point of view and agenda and Al is fighting for their cause which is his cause. Just another form of racism that they condone. Therefore it's really really hard not to conclude, with so many examples, that these two are indeed a couple of hard core racists.
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<<BHO is as left as can possibly be elected in the USA.>>
That is absurd. He's a charlatan, talks left, walks right.
Not at all.....Domestically he talked left, legislated left, campaigned center left, then attempted to legislate hard left, as president. As I said, your beef is in his not being a strong enough leader to get what he wanted. Dems tried to walk the election tightrope and only give him Socialist-lite. They thought wrong, and the Dems got creamed during the mid elections
I completely support your effort to run a candidate as hard left as you can get. The farther left, the greater the Conservative victory.
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Sorry, Kramer, but Michelle Bachmann is one crazy bitch, Palin the same only a helluva lot dumber and Sowell and Cain a pair of Uncle Toms way out on their own as far as the black community is concerned. The Rev. Al said (and jokingly, but I got the point) that he wouldn't vote for Cain even if he were running against a white person, and that's conceding that Cain is a lot "blacker" than Obama. Cain lost it when he came out swinging against his own people as being mostly "brainwashed" and closed-minded, then made a few more Uncle Tom remarks in the days following until he cleaned up his act for national exposure, a trifle too late for the "Uncle Tom" brand to be washed off so easily or at all.
Your cries of racism and sexism are kind of comical, especially when I recall the way the conservatives ducked every which way to avoid condemning REAL racist bastards like George Allen, Trent Lott, Strom Thurmond et al. Methinks the lady doth protest too much, gentlemen. Your hysterical indignation against "racists" like XO and me is a little over-the-top, no? Just a wee bit hypocritical? Just a leeetle bit phony?
The Reverend Al is a life-long fighter against racial injustice, who put his life on the line many times, and has the scars to prove it. Unlike the candy-ass whites who claim to be horrified by the man. To reject his entire career of fighting against racism and injustice because of his being taken in by Tawana Brawley about 40 years ago proves only the total moral and factual bankruptcy of his opponents.
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<<I completely support your effort to run a candidate as hard left as you can get. >>
LOL. sirs, we're gonna make a great team.
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Sorry, Kramer, but Michelle Bachmann is one crazy bitch, Palin the same only a helluva lot dumber and Sowell and Cain a pair of Uncle Toms way out on their own as far as the black community is concerned. The Rev. Al said (and jokingly, but I got the point) that he wouldn't vote for Cain even if he were running against a white person, and that's conceding that Cain is a lot "blacker" than Obama. Cain lost it when he came out swinging against his own people as being mostly "brainwashed" and closed-minded, then made a few more Uncle Tom remarks in the days following until he cleaned up his act for national exposure, a trifle too late for the "Uncle Tom" brand to be washed off so easily or at all.
Your cries of racism and sexism are kind of comical, especially when I recall the way the conservatives ducked every which way to avoid condemning REAL racist bastards like George Allen, Trent Lott, Strom Thurmond et all. Methinks the lady doth protest too much, gentlemen. Your hysterical indignation against "racists" like XO and me is a little over-the-top, no? Just a wee bit hypocritical? Just a leeetle bit phony?
The Reverend Al is a life-long fighter against racial injustice, who put his life on the line many times, and has the scars to prove it. Unlike the candy-ass whites who claim to be horrified by the man. To reject his entire career of fighting against racism and injustice because of his being taken in by Tawana Brawley about 40 years ago proves only the total moral and factual bankruptcy of his opponents.
I can see that you might have to be interned into a reeducation camp to cure your racist & sexist tendencies. Also I believe the Duke Lacrosse case was in 2007.
So Michelle Bachmann is crazy, and Pelosi is sane, and Palin is dumb?
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So Michelle Bachmann is crazy, and Pelosi is sane, and Palin is dumb?
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That is pretty much it. Pelosi is also pretty smart
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So Michelle Bachmann is crazy, and Pelosi is sane, and Palin is dumb?
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That is pretty much it. Pelosi is also pretty smart
Maybe I should switch over to your side.
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<<So Michelle Bachmann is crazy, and Pelosi is sane, and Palin is dumb?>>
You pretty much got that right, Kramer, although I am a huge NON-fan of Pelosi. She blew it when she said that Bush's impeachment was off the table after the 2006 elections. If you want to see the full extent to which this fucking bitch sold out the left, here it is:
http://www.nytimes.com/cq/2006/11/08/cq_1916.html (http://www.nytimes.com/cq/2006/11/08/cq_1916.html)
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<<I completely support your effort to run a candidate as hard left as you can get. >>
LOL. sirs, we're gonna make a great team.
You betcha. Let's get that Kucinich campaign jumpstarted. Let's start seeing those campaign commercials for any and all Dems....."MORE new Taxes!!...MORE new taxes!!"
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(http://www.cagle.com/working/111017/ramirez.jpg)