DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: richpo64 on September 24, 2008, 03:04:57 PM
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With a Single Voice
By Frontpagemag.com
FrontPageMagazine.com (http://FrontPageMagazine.com) | 9/24/2008
[Below is the text of the speech Sarah Palin was to have delivered at a Monday rally protesting Ahmadinejad's appearance at the UN. Palin's speech was canceled in a struggle between protest organizers and Hillary Clinton, who had also been invited to speak. Clinton reps complained they had been "blindsided" by the Palin invite, which they labeled a partisan move. Clinton withdrew her participation and Palin's invitation was rescinded -- The Editors]
Text of Palin's Speech:
I am honored to be with you and with leaders from across this great country - leaders from different faiths and political parties united in a single voice of outrage.
Tomorrow, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad will come to New York - to the heart of what he calls the Great Satan - and speak freely in this, a country whose demise he has called for.
Ahmadinejad may choose his words carefully, but underneath all of the rhetoric is an agenda that threatens all who seek a safer and freer world. We gather here today to highlight the Iranian dictator's intentions and to call for action to thwart him.
He must be stopped.
The world must awake to the threat this man poses to all of us. Ahmadinejad denies that the Holocaust ever took place. He dreams of being an agent in a "Final Solution" - the elimination of the Jewish people. He has called Israel a "stinking corpse" that is "on its way to annihilation."
Such talk cannot be dismissed as the ravings of a madman - not when Iran just this summer tested long-range Shahab-3 missiles capable of striking Tel Aviv, not when the Iranian nuclear program is nearing completion, and not when Iran sponsors terrorists that threaten and kill innocent people around the world.
The Iranian government wants nuclear weapons. The International Atomic Energy Agency reports that Iran is running at least 3,800 centrifuges and that its uranium enrichment capacity is rapidly improving. According to news reports, U.S. intelligence agencies believe the Iranians may have enough nuclear material to produce a bomb within a year.
The world has condemned these activities. The United Nations Security Council has demanded that Iran suspend its illegal nuclear enrichment activities. It has levied three rounds of sanctions. How has Ahmadinejad responded? With the declaration that the "Iranian nation would not retreat one iota" from its nuclear program.
So, what should we do about this growing threat? First, we must succeed in Iraq. If we fail there, it will jeopardize the democracy the Iraqis have worked so hard to build, and empower the extremists in neighboring Iran. Iran has armed and trained terrorists who have killed our soldiers in Iraq, and it is Iran that would benefit from an American defeat in Iraq.
If we retreat without leaving a stable Iraq, Iran's nuclear ambitions will be bolstered. If Iran acquires nuclear weapons they could share them tomorrow with the terrorists they finance, arm, and train today. Iranian nuclear weapons would set off a dangerous regional nuclear arms race that would make all of us less safe.
But Iran is not only a regional threat; it threatens the entire world. It is the no. 1 state sponsor of terrorism. It sponsors the world's most vicious terrorist groups, Hamas and Hezbollah. Together, Iran and its terrorists are responsible for the deaths of Americans in Lebanon in the 1980s, in Saudi Arabia in the 1990s, and in Iraq today. They have murdered Iraqis, Lebanese, Palestinians, and other Muslims who have resisted Iran's desire to dominate the region. They have persecuted countless people simply because they are Jewish.
Iran is responsible for attacks not only on Israelis, but on Jews living as far away as Argentina. Anti-Semitism and Holocaust denial are part of Iran's official ideology and murder is part of its official policy. Not even Iranian citizens are safe from their government's threat to those who want to live, work, and worship in peace. Politically-motivated abductions, torture, death by stoning, flogging, and amputations are just some of its state-sanctioned punishments.
It is said that the measure of a country is the treatment of its most vulnerable citizens. By that standard, the Iranian government is both oppressive and barbaric. Under Ahmadinejad's rule, Iranian women are some of the most vulnerable citizens.
If an Iranian woman shows too much hair in public, she risks being beaten or killed. If she walks down a public street in clothing that violates the state dress code, she could be arrested.
But in the face of this harsh regime, the Iranian women have shown courage. Despite threats to their lives and their families, Iranian women have sought better treatment through the "One Million Signatures Campaign Demanding Changes to Discriminatory Laws." The authorities have reacted with predictable barbarism. Last year, women's rights activist Delaram Ali was sentenced to 20 lashes and 10 months in prison for committing the crime of "propaganda against the system." After international protests, the judiciary reduced her sentence to "only" 10 lashes and 36 months in prison and then temporarily suspended her sentence. She still faces the threat of imprisonment.
Earlier this year, Senator Clinton said that "Iran is seeking nuclear weapons, and the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps is in the forefront of that" effort. Senator Clinton argued that part of our response must include stronger sanctions, including the designation of the IRGC as a terrorist organization. John McCain and I could not agree more.
Senator Clinton understands the nature of this threat and what we must do to confront it. This is an issue that should unite all Americans. Iran should not be allowed to acquire nuclear weapons. Period. And in a single voice, we must be loud enough for the whole world to hear: Stop Iran!
Only by working together, across national, religious, and political differences, can we alter this regime's dangerous behavior. Iran has many vulnerabilities, including a regime weakened by sanctions and a population eager to embrace opportunities with the West. We must increase economic pressure to change Iran's behavior.
Tomorrow, Ahmadinejad will come to New York. On our soil, he will exercise the right of freedom of speech - a right he denies his own people. He will share his hateful agenda with the world. Our task is to focus the world on what can be done to stop him.
We must rally the world to press for truly tough sanctions at the U.N. or with our allies if Iran's allies continue to block action in the U.N. We must start with restrictions on Iran's refined petroleum imports. We must reduce our dependency on foreign oil to weaken Iran's economic influence.
We must target the regime's assets abroad; bank accounts, investments, and trading partners.
President Ahmadinejad should be held accountable for inciting genocide, a crime under international law.
We must sanction Iran's Central Bank and the Revolutionary Guard Corps - which no one should doubt is a terrorist organization. Together, we can stop Iran's nuclear program.
Senator McCain has made a solemn commitment that I strongly endorse: Never again will we risk another Holocaust. And this is not a wish, a request, or a plea to Israel's enemies. This is a promise that the United States and Israel will honor, against any enemy who cares to test us. It is John McCain's promise and it is my promise.
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(http://www.usnews.com/dbimages/master/6596/FE_DA_080829_palin_3.jpg)
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Is it true that all her speeches are written for her by McCain campaign staff speechwriters?
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I looks like there were a few things there that Senator Clinton could have agreed with, she certainly would not be required to agree with them all.
Reneging on the promised appearance seems awfully petty for Seanator Clinton , is she a divider ?
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>>Is it true that all her speeches are written for her by McCain campaign staff speechwriters?<<
I imagine she has speech writers just like all politicians.
Does it matter?
How about Barry? We know Barry doesn't write his own stuff. That's why he won't debate in a town hall setting. He'd look like the fraud he is.
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Israel is such a major deal in Alaska. Nearly all Alaskans are Zionists.
Every moose hunt of any degree of respectability includes a rabbi to make certain the moosemeat is Kosher.
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Every moose hunt of any degree of respectability includes a rabbi to make certain the moosemeat is Kosher.
Moose killed during a hunt is never kosher.
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Moosemeat is never kosher.
I was joking. I think a Moose has the wrong sort of hoof to be kosher.
Aw, you deleted it. Why?
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Aw, you deleted it. Why?
I was editing it. Actually, moose would be kosher if raised on a farm and slaughtered properly. Hunting any animal makes that animal non-kosher.
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With a Single Voice
So, it appears like all the lies they have told about Obama's inability to speak extemporaneously (without a teleprompter) and how he is a good speaker when he has a teleprompter, the truth is that their own candidates are exactly that.
BTW, good speech, Sarah.
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I was editing it. Actually, moose would be kosher if raised on a farm and slaughtered properly. Hunting any animal makes that animal non-kosher.
Hence I mentioned the numerous rabbis, rampaging all around Alaska from Barrow to Juneau, from Attu to Fairbanks on their snowmobiles and dogsleds, arriving in the nick of time to ceremonially bleed the moose before they die. They have white snowmobiles with huge stars of David on them, and wear black hats atop their parkas.
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Aw, you deleted it. Why?
I was editing it. Actually, moose would be kosher if raised on a farm and slaughtered properly. Hunting any animal makes that animal non-kosher.
I didn't know that, does this make Jews anti hunting?
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Hence I mentioned the numerous rabbis, rampaging all around Alaska from Barrow to Juneau, from Attu to Fairbanks on their snowmobiles and dogsleds, arriving in the nick of time to ceremonially bleed the moose before they die. They have white snowmobiles with huge stars of David on them, and wear black hats atop their parkas.
It's more than the bleeding. The slaughtering must also be done in a humane way (sharp knife across the throat); any animal shot with a firearm or arrow is no longer kosher.
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I didn't know that, does this make Jews anti hunting?
Those that follow the restrictions, yes.
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Jews are anti-hunting because of the Jacob and Esau story. Esau as the older of the twin brothers, had the right to inherit the patriarchy of the Jewish people from their father, Isaac. Jacob in the womb grabbed Esau's heel to hold him back so he (Jacob) could get out first but he failed. But he kept scheming. Esau was a hunter, Jacob a herdsman. When Esau returned hungry from the hunt, Jacob cooked up a big pot of stew and offered Esau a meal, but only on condition that Esau renounce his patrimony in favour of Jacob. Esau agreed - - sold his inheritance (leadership of the Jewish people and patriarch of all its future generations) for what the King James version of the Old Testament called a "mess of pottage."
This means that in the Jewish religion, people who hunt for sport are looked down on as un-serious, lightweights, lacking in gravitas, although not truly evil. They are just inconsequential schmucks. Serious people don't hunt animals for sport. Most rabbis make an exception for those who hunt animals for food. I don't think there is any prohibition against eating game, but it depends as XO said on the type of hoof.
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Sports hunting violates the mitzvot against cruel treatment of animals (tzaar baali chayim). If hunting is the only alternative to dying oneself, then it is permitted.
A hunted animal is not kosher (trayf) because it was not killed in the strictly humane way that Jewish Law mandates. If the home doesn't follow the laws of kashrut, then this argument against hunting is harder to make. Best Wishes,
Rabbi Barry Dov Lerner
http://judaism.about.com/library/3_askrabbi_c/bl_hunting.htm (http://judaism.about.com/library/3_askrabbi_c/bl_hunting.htm)
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>>Israel is such a major deal in Alaska. Nearly all Alaskans are Zionists.<<
That's interesting. I wonder how you know that.
Nearly all huh?
::)
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>>Israel is such a major deal in Alaska. Nearly all Alaskans are Zionists.<<
That's interesting. I wonder how you know that.
Nearly all huh?
It is a joke. Alaska has a smaller number of Jews than any other state, and they are a very minor influence. Alaskans are by and large more interested in Samoa than Israel.
But they have stuffed this poor woman fuller of Zionist crap than a Channuka turkey, and she's eating it up. Tickle Me Elmo has given speeches that were more personal to his beliefs.
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>>But they have stuffed this poor woman fuller of Zionist crap than a Channuka turkey, and she's eating it up. Tickle Me Elmo has given speeches that were more personal to his beliefs.<<
Who stuffed you full of terrorist crap?
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Sports hunting violates the mitzvot against cruel treatment of animals (tzaar baali chayim). If hunting is the only alternative to dying oneself, then it is permitted.
A hunted animal is not kosher (trayf) because it was not killed in the strictly humane way that Jewish Law mandates. If the home doesn't follow the laws of kashrut, then this argument against hunting is harder to make. Best Wishes,
Rabbi Barry Dov Lerner
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I am sure that that is Rabbi Lerner's opinion, but hunting which was once done with spears, arrows and traps, which were probably more cruel. But I fail to see how a gunshot to the head or heart is more humane than slitting the animal's throat. I think I would opt for the gun, were I a moose.
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Who stuffed you full of terrorist crap?
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I am opposed to all terrorism. But I think Zionism is a rather nasty form of racism that has provoked a desperate people, after decades, to terrorism.
Zionism is to terrorism as smoking is to lung cancer.
I am against all three.
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Zionism is to terrorism as smoking is to lung cancer.
I am against all three.
So, which of the four do you think is peachy keen?
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>>I am opposed to all terrorism. But I think Zionism is a rather nasty form of racism that has provoked a desperate people, after decades, to terrorism. <<
So you're full of provoked terrorism.
Gotcha.
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<<A hunted animal is not kosher (trayf) because it was not killed in the strictly humane way that Jewish Law mandates. Rabbi Barry Dov Lerner>>
This guy is ridiculous. First of all because he gives his own opinion and cites no Talmudic or other source of authority. Second, because he doesn't know WTF he is talking about - - a deer killed in the wild with a single shot suffers far less than a cow, after a lifetime spent in a factory farm, hoisted vertically into a heads-down position by a chain on its back ankle and killed by slitting its throat. Third because he doesn't even mention hoof types, which is the key distinction made in the Bible between treif and kosher.
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This guy is ridiculous. First of all because he gives his own opinion and cites no Talmudic or other source of authority. Second, because he doesn't know WTF he is talking about - - a deer killed in the wild with a single shot suffers far less than a cow, after a lifetime spent in a factory farm, hoisted vertically into a heads-down position by a chain on its back ankle and killed by slitting its throat. Third because he doesn't even mention hoof types, which is the key distinction made in the Bible between treif and kosher.
I've got other sources that cite Talmud. Regardless, he didn't mention hoof types, because the question was about hunting. If you'd like more references that go into more detail, I'd be happy to provide them.
Basically, the prohibition against hunting is that you cannot guarantee a single shot kill (though that is the goal of most hunters) while slitting the throat is a guaranteed kill. Many hunters will tell you that they have had game that they hit and it got away, only to die of it's wounds much later, or that took two or three hits to kill.
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Some hunters don't get the first shot kill. Some slaughterhouse workers break or dislocate the leg when the animal is hoisted. What is the likelihood of a game animal that escapes the hunter dying from an attack by carnivorous predators? That can't be fun either - - but at least they lived their whole life free in the wild, not like a domestic animal slaughtered for meat. Some of those factory-farmed lives are just misery-filled from start to finish.
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Here's a couple other sources...
Meat that is to be eaten must be slaughtered in a particular way (Deuteronomy 12:20 states that slaughter method will be taught to us, and the Oral Law supplies the method). A special prayer is recited before the act. The animal must be slaughtered in a way so that they feel little pain. A razor sharp knife with no nicks is used to cut the esophagus, the trachia, the caratoid arteries, and jugular vein in one cut. The animal is then raised so that the blood flows free. The blood then is covered with dirt (as a show of respect as in the Temple sacrifice). Failure to do any of these renders the animal unfit to eat. Because of the complexity of kosher slaughter a specially trained person (shochet) usually does the ritual.
Hunting animals is thus forbidden by Jewish law. Since the animal is not killed ritually, it is unkosher, and it is considered cruel to kill an animal just for sport.
http://www.chelm.org/jewish/kashrut/l2.slaughter.html (http://www.chelm.org/jewish/kashrut/l2.slaughter.html)
"Do not eat any abomination... You may thus eat every animal that has a true hoof that is cloven into two parts, and which brings up its cud... There are some [animals] that you may not eat. These include the camel, hyrax and hare. . . Also included is the pig. . . Do not eat the flesh of these [animals] and do not touch their carcasses." (Deuteronomy 14)
Only animals that have both cloven hooves and chew their cud are permissible. By this rule, sheep, cattle, goats, and deer are allowed. [note: moose is a type of deer] Animals including the pig and hare are not allowed, nor are products that derive from them. So far, this is not too tough.
...
Animals must be slaughtered in accordance with Jewish ritual by a shohet (kosher slaugterer) with a precise understanding of the complex laws governing shehitah (slaughtering) in order to qualify as kosher. The kill must be made by slicing across the esophagus and jugular with a perfectly smooth blade in order to cause instant death without pain to the animal. For this reason, animals killed by hunting are not acceptable. Thus, while a deer may be kosher if raised on a farm, it is not permissable to eat a deer that has been killed while hunting.
http://www99.epinions.com/content_3008405636 (http://www99.epinions.com/content_3008405636)
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I knew it had something to do with the hoof.
<<The Book of Leviticus states:
<<“ Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: as the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.>>
I got this by Googling "kosher meat hoof Leviticus" and out of the first page of hits, going to the first Wikipedia article mentioned on the hit list.
So now it's up to all you moose-hunters out there to let us know if the moose has a cloven hoof or not. Then I guess if it's got the right kind of hoof, it's kosher if you kill it in a slaughterhouse by slitting its throat in a certain way (with certain prayers I believe) so as to minimize its suffering, and I think the blood also has to be removed in a certain way (maybe by salting??) but NOT kosher if it was taken by a hunter.
The Wikipedia article had lists of kosher and non-kosher meats, but I didn't see "moose" on it. I know mice and ospreys are definitely off the list.
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Moose is a type of deer.
Deer are kosher if slaughtered properly.
Hunting is not proper slaughtering, so the meat is no longer kosher.
I went through this already.
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So now it's up to all you moose-hunters out there to let us know if the moose has a cloven hoof or not. Then I guess if it's got the right kind of hoof, it's kosher if you kill it in a slaughterhouse by slitting its throat in a certain way (with certain prayers I believe) so as to minimize its suffering, and I think the blood also has to be removed in a certain way (maybe by salting??) but NOT kosher if it was taken by a hunter.
The blood must be salted and broiled ("kashered"). Also, numerous nerves and fatty tissues have to be removed in a particular way, and the lungs must be examined for any adhesions ("sirchot").
Here's a picture of moose hooves. (http://books.google.com/books?id=cEtyxoXC5d8C&pg=PA21&lpg=PA21&dq=moose+hooves&source=web&ots=4DX06gA8m9&sig=sVDTSKgsR82d_LZJF8D8xv0Nxt8&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result)
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Don't know which Wiki article you read (you didn't post the link to it), but if it was this article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosher_status_of_animals_in_Jewish_law#Mammals_.28Leviticus_11:3-8.3B_Deuteronomy_14:6.29), then clicking on the "deer" link will take you to another article that includes the moose and elk as part of that family.
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So you're full of provoked terrorism.
Gotcha
I am not the terrorist, fool.
I said that Zionish has provoked some people to terrorism, some other people, certainly not me.
You got nothing.
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Could you trap a wild animal and give it a Kosher style death and butchering?
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Could you trap a wild animal and give it a Kosher style death and butchering?
Yes, this is typically how outlets that sell kosher game meat (such as kosher venison) do it; it is an expensive undertaking, however, and not very common.
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>>I am not the terrorist ... <<
I diodn't say you were. I said you support terrorists. Which you do.
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I diodn't say you were. I said you support terrorists. Which you do.
I do?
I have not sent a penny to any terrorist organization.
I have not sent a nice card to Hamas or the PLO.
I have mentioned that Arafat looked disreputable on various instances.
I merely do not want my taxes to reward Israeli undemocratic behavior. I think the US should be as neutral in the Palisrael issue as it is over Sri Lanka and Kashmir.
I just said that terrorism was simply the only recourse that many Palestinians thought they had.
I say I am neutral. I say you are a pro-Zionist sap.
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You're obviously not neutral You blame Israel for everything. You claim they bring it on themselves.
You support terrorists.
Period.
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. You claim they bring it on themselves.
You support terrorists.
Period.
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The Zionists DID bring it on themselves. They moved in where they were not welcome, turned the previous inhabitants into second-class citizens, and frequently torture them, bulldoze their homes and arrest them without charges. The Zionists, unlike nearly every other country in the world, have no constitution and therefore no one under their government has constitutional rights. They do this with money I pay in taxes and against my will. I have every right to complain about this and any other thing for which I am expected to pay.
I do not send money to Palestinians or aid or abet them in any way other than to call fanatics like you on the errancy of your ways when you spout such rot, as you consistently do. I might add that you do not seem to have convinced one single person here, ever.
YOU support people being treated as second and third class citizens, having their homes bulldozed, and my taxes being spent on the unjust partisan politics of another country.
Period
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Once again. You support terrorism. Your most recent post makes it crystal clear.
You're little fantasy about what Israel is and does points to a complete lack of understanding of the region and it's history. I can only guess you must be an anti-Semite. There are Arab Israelis. They occupy posts in the Israeli armed forces and the Israeli government. Claiming Israel has taken anything form anyone is based in a twisted view of history. Or perhaps just ignorance. Most likely willful.
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>>I might add that you do not seem to have convinced one single person here, ever.<<
I've finally stopped laughing.
Are you delusional enough to think you're venomous, bile filled, rants have ever done anything but put people off their feed? You can't go three posts without girlish name calling and insults.
But then you do convince people of one thing. I'll leave you to figure out what it is.
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<<Claiming Israel has taken anything form anyone is based in a twisted view of history. Or perhaps just ignorance. Most likely willful.>>
Actually I know more about Israel than you and Knutey and XO put together and I can tell you straight out that anyone who denies that Israel has taken land, livelihood and lives from the Arabs who were there first is just totally full of shit.
See: From Arab land to `Israel Lands': the legal dispossession
of the Palestinians displaced by Israel in the wake of 1948
Geremy Forman}
Department of Land of Israel Studies, University of Haifa, Mount Carmel, Haifa, 31905, Israel;
Alexandre (Sandy) Kedar
Faculty of Law, University of Haifa, Mount Carmel, Haifa, 31905, Israel;
Received 7 February 2003; in revised form 29 July 2003
http://www.cohre.org/store/attachments/Geremy%20Forman%20Article%20Arab%20Israel%20lands%20(2).pdf (http://www.cohre.org/store/attachments/Geremy%20Forman%20Article%20Arab%20Israel%20lands%20(2).pdf)
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>>Actually I know more about Israel than you and Knutey and XO put together...<<
Obviously not.
Besides, Knutty? Sighting him as some kind of expert undermines your credibility immensely. You and XO hold the exact same opinion on the subject, which means you know very little.
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Still refusing to discuss the theft of Arab lands, livelihoods and lives on any rational basis, I see. Can't really claim that I'm disappointed or surprised.
It's OK, Rich, blather on.
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Richiepoo has been totally brainwashed. I don't imagine it too a lot of brainsoap to do this.
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You know you've bested them when they start the little name calling.
:D
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I know I've bested you when I click on "REPLY."
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See?
:D
Mike, you're in serious need of a doctor. I'm sure you've been told that before. I hope you take the advice with the intent it was given. Seriously.
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Clearly he is not the ranting Zionist fanatic that you are.
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<<Mike, you're in serious need of a doctor. I'm sure you've been told that before. I hope you take the advice with the intent it was given. Seriously.>>
Laughter is the best therapy, Rich. And with the amount of laughter I get from your fucking ignorance, to say nothing of your hypocrisy, I'm well on my way to being the healthiest guy on the face of the earth. I don't know if I've ever thanked you before, but thanks, Rich.