Author Topic: question about government involvements in our lives  (Read 16140 times)

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Plane

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Re: question about government involvements in our lives
« Reply #60 on: October 13, 2014, 11:06:42 PM »
  Aaah...

   But what is the governments proper role?

    Regulation that is effective at preventing cheating is good for almost everyone(not cheaters themselves).

     Regulation intended to regulate the nature of credit cannot possibly be thought out well enough.

      This situation we are discussing is merely a large case in point for the larger concept.

     So we are discussing a detail, of a larger concept.

       When the government made it possible to sell loans to the government , or to bundle loans and sell the mass of loans as a single object, it decoupled the responsibility and consequence of the original loan from the outcome of a bad loan.

    Then the banks that made the best money and grew the most were the ones that made and sold the most loans , bales of money rolled into the irresponsible and they left the responsible behind in the dust.

      What made the big banks irresponsible is a chicken and egg question, reverse it to ask what made the irresponsible banks grow big?

      Evolution works on corporations in a similar manner to its action on creatures , the selection is in favor of the fittest.

       But there are short legged cattle ,because a farmer once bred speed out of his heard, due to the farmers desire the fittest on the farm was opposite to the fittest in the wild.

     Our banks cope with what the bank owners want by promising them profits, the same banks cope with our government by promising them obedience, successful banks reach the balance in this environment.

      When some banks are making huge profits , on an activity that the government sanctions , how does a bank manager explain to his stockholders that he does not want to participate?  If he is not fired , he is abandoned and his bank will shrink from the smaller profit and lack of investors.

      If there were banks but no governments , they would never lend to anyone that they suspected could not pay back.
        But with the government offering to buy loans before anyone has proven that the debtors were good for it , the proper attitude for a banker becomes "why not?".


      If there were government but no banks , we would build fewer and smaller houses.
      There have been times when there were not enough banks and "tight money" made selling a crop and buying farm equipment and seed very difficult. This has been a national Issue since the time of Alexander Hamilton.

      There is a proper role for government and banks , but we pretty often loose track of what is proper and central and try to use the aircraft as a tractor and a tractor to fly.

      If the government is used to prevent cheating in banks and banks are used to facilitate projects large and small, we can return to the basics and use simple rules.

       

sirs

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Re: question about government involvements in our lives
« Reply #61 on: October 14, 2014, 12:05:04 AM »
but sirs do you acknowledge that uncontrolled greed can be harmful?

To be honest...anything that is "uncontrolled" can be harmful.  Uncontrolled love could lead to something like fatal attraction.  I'm not giving the banks and lending institutions a free pass, Kimba.  There is some culpability, but as I said, minus the actions of the Fed, they wouldn't have been pushing the lending envelope.  They were making profits just fine, before Fannie & Freddie
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

kimba1

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Re: question about government involvements in our lives
« Reply #62 on: October 14, 2014, 12:20:08 AM »
fair enough.

plane I need time to read your stuff over again. maybe answer back on it.

Plane

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Re: question about government involvements in our lives
« Reply #63 on: October 14, 2014, 08:00:49 PM »
fair enough.

plane I need time to read your stuff over again. maybe answer back on it.

  Thank you , that is very complementary!


    Don't feel pressured to agree, you know I like agreement and I like disagreement too.

sirs

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Re: question about government involvements in our lives
« Reply #64 on: October 14, 2014, 08:26:17 PM »
ditto
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: question about government involvements in our lives
« Reply #65 on: October 15, 2014, 11:54:58 AM »
The problem with Fannie and Freddie was that Fannie and Freddie were allowed to buy bad mortgages, mortgages in which the debtors had no way of paying them off. And it was not just Fannie and Freddie, there were a number of non-government affiliated companies that also bought bad mortgages. Lehman was one, and it was forced out of business.

This was because banks were permitted to take huge risks, because proper regulations were removed.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: question about government involvements in our lives
« Reply #66 on: October 15, 2014, 12:13:44 PM »
Polar opposite, I'm afraid.  They were pushed, by legislation enacted under Clinton, pushed harder under Bush and the FDIC to do exactly that....with the agenda of having more people be home owners.  It was the legislation and the executive branch of the government that "allowed" Fannie & Freddie such an out of control agenda.  There would have been only a fraction of bad mortgages, if not for the above actions of the Fed
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 02:52:58 PM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: question about government involvements in our lives
« Reply #67 on: October 15, 2014, 01:13:33 PM »
The standard right wing line. Simply not true.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: question about government involvements in our lives
« Reply #68 on: October 15, 2014, 02:02:07 PM »
Standard leftist line, ignore the facts
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: question about government involvements in our lives
« Reply #69 on: October 15, 2014, 04:14:40 PM »
The problem with Fannie and Freddie was that Fannie and Freddie were allowed to buy bad mortgages, mortgages in which the debtors had no way of paying them off. And it was not just Fannie and Freddie, there were a number of non-government affiliated companies that also bought bad mortgages. Lehman was one, and it was forced out of business.

This was because banks were permitted to take huge risks, because proper regulations were removed.
I agree mostly.

    But what do you mean by the word "permitted"?

    I would have said "required".

   It might have been laudable to punish the practice of "red lining", but the practice of vetting loan applicants was pretty much crippled in the process.
 

kimba1

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Re: question about government involvements in our lives
« Reply #70 on: October 16, 2014, 03:59:59 AM »
hmm

but what exactly is the power of the government over the banks it`s one thing to relax restrictions on loans. but does the government have the unlimited power to set qoutas on loans? I stated the volume of loans makes it not the government but the banks willingness to give the loans. we already establish motive for such actions.

Plane

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Re: question about government involvements in our lives
« Reply #71 on: October 16, 2014, 06:48:06 AM »
That is the key concept.

Under all circumstances the bank that loans the money wants it back on schedule with interest.

If a government program insures that the loan can be sold at a profit immediately , the most profitable thing to do is to make as many loans as possible and the risk is reduced to nothing by selling the loans quickly.

Is this a good government program?

It seems to be encouraging brainless banking.

This behavior is unnatural to banks , it wouldn't have possible to cheat this way without the government involvement.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: question about government involvements in our lives
« Reply #72 on: October 16, 2014, 08:30:57 AM »
That is a crock.

The banks were overjoyed to make loans, collect the closing costs, and sell the mortgages to suckers.

They could do this because of a goddamn Republican Phil Gramm of Texas, made it all possible by removing the regulation prohibiting it.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: question about government involvements in our lives
« Reply #73 on: October 16, 2014, 11:33:17 AM »
If a government program insures that the loan can be sold at a profit immediately , the most profitable thing to do is to make as many loans as possible and the risk is reduced to nothing by selling the loans quickly.

Is this a good government program?

It seems to be encouraging brainless banking.

This behavior is unnatural to banks , it wouldn't have possible to cheat this way without the government involvement
.

BINGO!!
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: question about government involvements in our lives
« Reply #74 on: October 16, 2014, 01:09:53 PM »
The loans were gladly approved because the guys soliciting them made huge commissions. The comissions did NOT COME from the government,
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."