DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Henny on September 04, 2007, 04:58:36 PM
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Abandon Stereotypes, Muslims in America Say
By NEIL MacFARQUHAR
Published: September 4, 2007
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/04/us/04muslims.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
ROSEMONT, Ill., Sept 3 ? It is time for the United States to stop treating every American Muslim as somehow suspect, leaders of the faith said at their largest annual convention, which ended here on Monday.
Six years after the Sept. 11 attacks, Americans should distinguish between mainstream Muslims and the radical fringe, the leaders said.
?Muslim Americans feel an increasing level of tension and scrutiny in contemporary society,? said Ingrid Mattson, president of the Islamic Society of North America, the largest Muslim organization in the United States and the convention organizer.
The image problems were among the topics most discussed by many of the 30,000 attendees. A fresh example cited was an open letter from two Republican House members, Peter Hoekstra of Michigan and Sue Myrick of North Carolina, that attacked the Justice Department for sending envoys to the convention because, the lawmakers said, the Islamic Society of North America was a group of ?radical jihadists.?
The lone Muslim in Congress, Representative Keith Ellison, Democrat of Minnesota, the keynote speaker here, dismissed the letter as ill informed and typical of bigoted attacks that other minorities have suffered.
Leaders of American Muslim organizations attribute the growing intolerance to three main factors: global terrorist attacks in the name of Islam, disappointing reports from the Iraq war and the agenda of some supporters of Israel who try taint Islam to undermine the Palestinians.
American Muslims say they expect the attacks to worsen in the presidential election and candidates to criticize Islam in an effort to prove that they are tough on terrorism.
Zaid Shakir, an African-American imam with rock star status among young Muslims, described how on a recent road trip from Michigan to Washington he heard comments on talk radio from people who were ?making stuff up about Islam.?
Among the most egregious, he said, was from a person in Kentucky who denounced the traditional short wood stick some Muslims use to clean their teeth, saying, ?They are really sharpening up their teeth because they are planning to eat you, yes they are.?
Representatives of at least eight federal departments and agencies attended the convention, their booths sandwiched among hundreds of others from bookstores, travel agencies, perfumeries, clothing designers and real estate developers.
Mark S. Ward, who runs programs in Asia and the Middle East for the Agency for International Development, said Washington had to compete for influence abroad with militant groups that are expert at delivering humanitarian services.
Mr. Ward said he hoped more American Muslim organizations would apply to help distribute overseas aid.
A few people approached the Federal Bureau of Investigation booth to voice dismay at its presence, said a recruiter, David Valle, but most expressed pleasant surprise.
?A lot of folks think we want to hire them to spy on their community, spy on their families,? he said. ?We want to dispel any myths they might have about the F.B.I.?
The Justice Department responded to Mr. Hoekstra and Ms. Myrick?s letter by noting that broad community contact in areas like voting rights was an important part of its mission.
That theme was echoed by Daniel W. Sutherland, chief officer for civil rights and liberties at the Homeland Security Department. Mr. Sutherland told a luncheon audience that the government needed to dispel prejudice and misconceptions to steer the public discussion about fighting terrorism to ?a higher level.?
Sometimes frustration with the government boiled over. At a seminar on charitable giving, Ihsan Haque of Akron, Ohio, asked a Treasury Department representative, Michael Rosen, how to avoid being prosecuted for donating to Muslim charities. When Mr. Rosen said the government did not have the resources to check the million or so charities in the United States, Mr. Haque shouted, ?And I do??
Muslim leaders described the government relationship toward Muslim organizations as contradictory. The government seeks to foster greater civic engagement, because a lack of engagement is widely considered a big cause of Muslim extremism in Europe. A Department of Homeland Security official moderated a panel on aiding engagement.
Muslim groups are often treated as suspect, speakers said. In a trial that started in July in Dallas, federal prosecutors named the Islamic Society of North America as part of an effort to raise money for groups the government considers terrorists, but did not charge it with wrongdoing.
The Justice Department has to decide on its law enforcement side what it considers a target, said Khurrum Wahid, a prominent Muslim defense lawyer.
?Are they going to continue to say that the higher degree of religiosity you have the higher likelihood that you are a threat, because that?s the message they?ve sent,? Mr. Wahid said.
Rabbi Eric H. Yoffie, president of the Union for Reform Judaism, denounced by name Christian fundamentalists like Pat Robertson and Franklin Graham, as well as Dennis Prager, a well-known radio host who is Jewish.
?The time has come to stand up to the opportunists, the media figures, the religious leaders and politicians who demonize Muslims and bash Islam, exploiting the fears of their fellow citizens for their own purposes,? Rabbi Yoffie told the opening session.
The Koran tells Muslims to abstain from drinking alcohol and to lower their gaze in modesty when meeting a member of the opposite sex, but some college-age Muslim men and women at the convention stayed up late into the night drinking, talking and getting to know one another.
?If you keep your gaze lowered all the time, you might just walk into a wall,? said Hazem Talha, a high school senior from Atlanta who said he was here for the religious lectures.
(http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/09/04/us/04muslim.190.jpg)
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Honestly Miss Henny, how is America treating "every" American Muslim as suspect?? I do believe that's more hyperbole than substance.
I think those who are considered "suspect" are those acting in a suspicious manner, such as those Muslims on the airline, where they kept changing seats, asking for extra safety belts that they didn't use, all the while publically proclaiming how much they disliked America & Bush.
I think those who are considered "suspect" are those who refuse to acknowledge terrorist actions by Islamic radicals, even going so far as to justify their acts of terrorism, frequently trying to change the subject to Israeli abuses.
I think those who are considered "suspect" are those who support the acts of Muslim extremists & radicals, while denouncing any criticism of such as "sterotyping all Muslims as suspect"
At least, that's what I think
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I really like the" Frisk me I'm Muslim " Tee , I don't think I will wear it to work though.
Tooth sticks were used by my people in the Appalachians too , you have to be carefull not to pick a stick from a poisonous plant .
http://www.lutonmuslims.co.uk/miswak.htm
http://www.dzimba.com/index.php/2007/07/02/a-twig-a-daythe-african-toothbrush/
(http://www.dzimba.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/toothbrushsmjpg.jpeg)
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Islamic Society of North America
* Enforces extremist Wahhabi theological writ in America?s mosques
Established in 1963 by the by the Saudi-funded Muslim Students? Association of the U.S. and Canada, the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) calls itself the largest Muslim organization on the continent. Its annual convention draws more attendees -- usually over 30,000 -- than any other Muslim gathering in the Western Hemisphere. ISNA?s mission is to function as ?an association of Muslim organizations and individuals that provides a common platform for presenting Islam, supporting Muslim communities, developing educational, social and outreach programs and fostering good relations with other religious communities, and civic and service organizations.?
ISNA focuses heavily on providing Wahhabi theological indoctrination materials to a large percentage of the 2,500+ mosques in North America. Many of these mosques were recently built with Saudi money and are required, by their Saudi benefactors, to strictly follow the dictates of Wahhabi imams -- an edict that affects the tone and content of the sermons given in the mosques, the selection of books and periodicals that may be read in mosque libraries or sold in mosque bookshops, and the policies governing the exclusion or suppression of dissenters from the congregations.
Through its affiliate, the North American Islamic Trust -- a Saudi government-backed organization created to fund Islamist enterprises in North America -- the Saudi-subsidized ISNA reportedly holds the mortgages on 50 to 80 percent of all mosques in the U.S. and Canada. Thus the organization can freely exercise ultimate authority over these houses of worship and their teachings.
Writes Kaukab Siddique, the editor of New Trend, an Islamic periodical of extremist views that is nonetheless opposed to Wahhabi domination of American Islam: "ISNA controls most mosques in America and thus also controls who will speak at every Friday prayer, and which literature will be distributed there."
Islam scholar Stephen Schwartz describes ISNA as "one of the chief conduits through which the radical Saudi form of Islam passes into the United States."
According to Sufi leader Sheikh Muhammad Hisham Kabbani?s testimony before a State Department Open Forum on January 7, 1999, extremists have taken over ?more than 80 percent of the mosques in the United States ... This means that the ideology of extremism has been spread to 80 percent of the Muslim population, mostly the youth and the new generation.? Kabbani based his statement on his personal investigation of 114 American mosques. ?Ninety of them,? he said, ?were mostly exposed, and I say exposed, to extreme or radical ideology, based on their speeches, books and board members.? This is largely due to the efforts of ISNA.
According to terrorism expert Steven Emerson, ISNA ?is a radical group hiding under a false veneer of moderation?; ?convenes annual conferences where Islamist militants have been given a platform to incite violence and promote hatred? (for instance, al Qaeda supporter and PLO official Yusuf Al-Qaradhawi was invited to speak at an ISNA conference); has held fundraisers for terrorists (after Hamas leader Mousa Marzook was arrested and eventually deported in 1997, ISNA raised money for his defense); has condemned the U.S. government?s post-9/11 seizure of Hamas? and Palestinian Islamic Jihad?s financial assets; and publishes a bi-monthly magazine, Islamic Horizons, that ?often champions militant Islamist doctrine.?
Adds Emerson: ?I think ISNA has been an umbrella, also a promoter of groups that have been involved in terrorism. I am not going to accuse the ISNA of being directly involved in terrorism. I will say ISNA has sponsored extremists, racists, people who call for Jihad against the United States.?
WTHR, an Indianapolis television station located close to ISNA?s Plainfield, Indiana headquarters, said it had found ?about a dozen charities, organizations and individuals under federal scrutiny for possible ties to terrorism that are in some way linked to ISNA.?
In December 2003, U.S. Senators Charles Grassley and Max Baucus of the Senate Committee on Finance listed ISNA as one of 25 American Muslim organizations that ?finance terrorism and perpetuate violence.? ISNA is known to have permitted the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development (and a number of other Islamic charities with terror connections) to set up booths at its conventions, and in some cases has helped raise money for them.
Upon learning of the arrest of Sami Al-Arian, the University of South Florida computer science professor eventually found guilty of conspiring to fund the terrorist organization Palestinian Islamic Jihad, ISNA issued a statement criticizing the U.S. government for its prosecution of Al-Arian.
ISNA was a signatory to a February 20, 2002 document, composed by C. Clark Kissinger?s revolutionary communist group Refuse & Resist, condemning military tribunals and the detention of immigrants apprehended in connection with post-9/11 terrorism investigations. In ISNA?s estimation, the Patriot Act constitutes an assault on the civil liberties of Muslim Americans and ought to be repealed.
ISNA endorses the Immigrant Workers Freedom Ride Coalition, which seeks to secure amnesty and civil liberties protections for illegal aliens, and policy reforms that diminish or eliminate restrictions on future immigration.
ISNA chose not to endorse or participate in the May 14, 2005 "Free Muslims March Against Terror," an event whose purpose was to "send a message to the terrorists and extremists that their days are numbered . . . [and to send] a message to the people of the Middle East, the Muslim world and all people who seek freedom, democracy and peaceful coexistence that we support them."
Among ISNA?s more prominent members and affiliates (past and present) are Mohammed Nur Abdullah, Muzammil Siddiqi, Siraj Wahhaj, Ihsan Bagby, Jamal A. Badawi, Abdullah Idris Ali, Hadia Mubarak (a former President of the Muslim Students? Association who now sits on ISNA's Board of Directors), and Omar J. Siddiqui (the Muslim Youth of North America Chairman who is also a member of the ISNA Board).
ISNA's current President is Ingrid Mattson, professor of Islamic Studies at the Macdonald Center for Islamic Studies, and of Christian-Muslim Relations at Hartford Seminary in Connecticut.
Also affiliated with ISNA is Abdurahman Alamoudi, who in 1982 founded the Islamic Society of Boston under ISNA?s tax-exempt umbrella.
In July 2006, ISNA Secretary General Sayyid M. Syeed joined Sojourners leader Jim Wallis and National Council of Churches (NCC) General Secretary Robert Edgar in opposing any U.S. military action against Iran?s nuclear weapons program -- instead advocating "direct negotiations" with Tehran.
At ISNA's 44th annual convention (held in Rosemont, Illinois) in August 2007, NCC's Interfaith Relations office sponsored an Ecumenical Study Seminar for ?reflecting and learning together.?
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=6178 (http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=6178)
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I really like the" Frisk me I'm Muslim " Tee , I don't think I will wear it to work though.
*snicker*.......seriously though, this is no different than frisking someone who's acting suspicious, and doing so in a questionable area, yet giving law enforcement grief when asked what they're doing and why they're there.
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http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=6178 (http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=6178)
You know, I'm thinking that this website has a definite bias.
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>>You know, I'm thinking that this website has a definite bias.<<
I'm thinking the same thing about you.
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>>You know, I'm thinking that this website has a definite bias.<<
I'm thinking the same thing about you.
I can't disagree with you. Well, I could disagree with you just to be a pain in the ass, but I know you're right. I am biased.
However.
The article I posted came from the New York Times. That's pretty mainstream. Your article... well, just look at the website. It says a lot about the group and their agenda.
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What the hell has happened to you Henny? The New York Times ... mainstream? Have you drank the Kool-Aide?
As for the website I posted, your admitted bias precludes you from an honest assessment.
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What the hell has happened to you Henny? The New York Times ... mainstream? Have you drank the Kool-Aide?
As for the website I posted, your admitted bias precludes you from an honest assessment.
The New York Times is a newspaper that can be purchased all over the country. It is leftist, but it is mainstream.
Here is the mission statement from the website you are referencing:
What This Site Is About
(The resources on this page are devoted to defining the left, which is one of the purposes of this website. For additional conceptual articles about the left, see ISSUES: "Progressive" and "Liberalism," and particularly the articles by Barry Loberfeld and David Horowitz.)
Welcome to DiscoverTheNetworks. This site is a "Guide to the Political Left." It identifies the individuals and organizations that make up the left and also the institutions that fund and sustain it; it maps the paths through which the left exerts its influence on the larger body politic; it defines the left's (often hidden) programmatic agendas and it provides an understanding of its history and ideas.
The site is made up of two principal data elements along with a powerful search engine to locate and explore the information stored. The first of these elements is a database of PROFILES of individuals, groups and institutions, which can be accessed through the heptagram on the home page, or the DTN DIRECTORY on the navigation bar. The PROFILES provide thumbnail sketches of histories, agendas and (where significant) funding sources. More than 1,500 such groups and individuals have already been delineated in the PROFILES sections of this base. The information has been culled from public records readily available on the Internet and other sources, whose veracity and authenticity are easily checked.
The second data element of this site consists of a library of articles, which analyze the relationships disclosed in the database and the issues they raise. These analyses are drawn from thousands of articles, both scholarly and journalistic, that have been entered into the base and linked in the RESOURCES columns that appear on the PROFILE pages. The judgments that inform these analyses are subjective, reflecting informed opinion about the matters at hand. In every case possible, their authors and sources are identified so that users of the database can form their own judgments and opinions about the reliability and value of the analyses.
DiscoverTheNetworks is an ambitious undertaking that would not have been possible before the creation of the Internet with the storage capacities and data linkage features that digital space affords and that such an undertaking requires. As a result of the information that these technologies make available, a user of this site can follow the networks described in the database to arrive at a new understanding of the forces that define our social reality and shape our collective futures.
The database will readily answer many questions that previously would have required volumes of printed text to establish. The primary question is: "Is there a left?" Since the early 1970s, radical activists began referring to themselves as "liberals" (in part to distance themselves from their failures as a socialist left. A sympathetic media culture went along with this deception, with the result that the word "left" has all but disappeared from the political lexicon. The spectrum of views is now regularly described in the media culture as extending from "liberal" to "moderate" to "conservative" or right, as though a left did not exist or was so marginal as not to matter.
Thus Howard Kurtz, the media critic of the Washington Post explains in his 1997 book Hot Air: All Talk, All The Time: "There is... no real left wing in today's talk show environment largely because the left has faded as a political force in America." Former Clinton Labor Secretary Robert Reich agrees that there is no significant left in American politics. In his book Reason: Why Liberals Will Win The Battle for America, Reich claims: "Now it's hard to find any Sixties lefties, except maybe in the rarefied precincts of a few universities where aging radicals still debate Marxism and deconstruction. Most of the political passion and intensity these days are on the radical conservative right."
These words were written in 2004 well after Sixties radicals like Leslie Cagan (head of the coalition United For Peace and Justice) organized the anti-war demonstrations in which a million protesters with publicly articulated leftwing agendas participated, and which fed the anti-war Presidential campaigns of Sixties veterans Dennis Kucinich and Howard Dean.
Reich wrote his book as head of the "Social Justice and Policy" program at Brandeis University and is arguably a leftist himself. (The pervasive presence of a political left on the faculties of American universities is documented in the ACADEMIA module of this website).
By browsing this database, and familiarizing oneself with the agendas of the individuals and organizations it contains, with the scope of their activities and with the tens of millions of dollars available to support them, a user of this base will find ample evidence for the existence of this left and for the fact that it is a major player in the political destinies of the nation. (See in particular the organizations and individuals associated with ANTI-WAR groups and The Shadow Party.)
The movement to protest the war in Iraq reconfigured the presidential campaign of 2004 and has affected American policy not only in Iraq but in the War on Terror generally. It has changed the face of the Democratic Party and of American politics in general. What is the nature of this "anti-war" movement, who are its leaders, and what are its agendas? The scope and features of this database allow for definitive answers to these questions.
The database provides a complete guide to all the principal groups responsible for organizing the national protests against the war, their leaders, their core agendas and beliefs. (Follow the guide icon, which is shaped like a heptagram on the homepage, by clicking on GROUPS and then ANTI-WAR). While the database cannot account for the motivations and beliefs of all the individuals who participated in these protests or who came in an unorganized fashion to oppose the war, it can describe with reasonable certainty the identities and agendas of all the principal anti-war groups and leaders who initiated these protests, organized their events and shaped the political debate. Inspection of the database shows that without exception the agendas of these groups and the individuals who ran them were anti-corporate and socialist (often Marxist-Leninist), rather than pacifists and non-violent or merely liberal, as described in the general media. Their opposition to the war went well beyond the issue of the war itself.
The relational aspects of this database reveal the paths by which these radicals were able to influence institutions like the Democratic Party that are not radical (See Shadow Party.) Using the information provided in the base, one can thus trace the progress of a radical menu of leftwing policies and complaints into the heart of the American political mainstream.
The database also provides group profiles of the organizations engaged in organizing opposition to the Patriot Act, as well as to frontline homeland security defenses such as border control (GROUPS/IMMIGRATION) and the linkages between them. Following the network of these organizations and individuals through the base reveals that they have agendas and perspectives that range far beyond the legal issues themselves and are rooted in their radical opposition to the American status quo. These agendas are anti-corporate and socialist.
Another tool of the database is the MAPS feature which provides visual networks of the funding and organizational relations between groups and individuals in the base. To view these networks, click on the MAPS icon in the respective profiles and wait for Java to load.
Each Category of INDIVIDUALS or GROUPS comes with a GUIDE which provides analytical texts and overviews of the subject. Click on the INDIVIDUALS button or the GUIDE button to view this feature.
The Guides are supplemented by an ISSUES module that is designed to provide analytic and historical overviews of key subjects -- the terms "liberalism" and "progressive," for example; or pivotal events like the Vietnam War and the war in Iraq. Like the rest of this website, this module is a work in progress and its database will be expanded over time.
The information entered into the database has been scrupulously assembled. The sources for the facts entered and the interpretations based on them have been made as transparent as possible - and can therefore be checked by users of the base. Textual analyses of the data contained in this site and attached to the profiles, or provided separately under the ISSUES module in the heptagram and in the specific GUIDES provided on each of the search pages, are identified by author and source so that they can be independently evaluated by the individual user.
We are aware that this base may raise legitimate concerns about the effect of categorizing and labeling individuals and organizations, and that such an enterprise entails and the possibility of inaccuracies creeping into the data. We share these concerns and have provided a contact link on the homepage of this site (CONTRIBUTE INFORMATION) where corrections can be submitted. We will take immediate steps to correct any and all factual inaccuracies that are brought to our attention.
Other concerns are certain to be raised that we will not regard as legitimate but rather as veiled expressions of distress over the factual information revealed on the site. A cry of such distress has already greeted a perfectly reasonable database called Campus Watch, provided by the Middle East Forum. This site records and analyzes the views of leftwing academics concerning terrorism in the Islamic world, views that can fairly be described as apologetic and even sympathetic to the radical Islamist cause. Critics of Campus Watch, many of them with views identical to those reviewed on the site, have claimed that the very enterprise of posting such critical reviews is "McCarthyism" and an Internet "witch-hunt." Such responses reflect an anti-intellectual attitude that seeks to embargo the political debate before it takes place.
We are familiar with such attitudes because they have already been directed at DiscoverTheNetworks in advance of its publication on the worldwide web. Almost a year before the official launching, a radical group in Colorado broke into the site under construction and supplied information about it to several journalists. One of them was Gail Schoettler, a former Democratic Lieutenant governor of Colorado and a regular columnist for the Denver Post. In her column for January 11, 2004, following the break in and the article that followed it, Schoettler wrote:
"Attorney General John Ashcroft and right-wing gadfly David Horowitz no doubt share many views. They also have one dangerous common goal: They want to turn us into a nation of snitches. Just like the good old days of ? Senator Joseph McCarthy, they want Americans to spy on one another?. Horowitz is seeking funds to develop a huge database of so-called 'leftist' and 'liberal' individuals and organizations, a massive snitch file."
This bizarre outburst reflects not only the partisan hysteria of the 2004 Presidential year, but also what appears to be a normal hypocrisy of partisans on the left who react with outrage to practices they themselves have pioneered. There are in fact more than a dozen political databases parallel to DiscoverTheNetworks that have been created by the left to map the political right, which have existed for years. Among these the most active are: MediaTransparency, Namebase, SourceWatch (formerly called Disinfopedia) and MediaMatters, a site created by Democratic Party funders and operatives led by George Soros and John Podesta.
These dedicated "watch dog" sites are supplemented by other leftwing sites that post extensive lists of conservative organizations accompanied by profiles designed principally to stigmatize them. People for the American Way (PFAW), for example, is an organization whose principal activity is falsely tarring conservative judicial candidates as "racists" on the basis of their dissent from leftwing positions. PFAW features a "Right Wing Watch" section of its website which applies the same loose principles of characterization to a wide range of conservative organizations and conservative individuals. Thus conservative organizations that oppose racial preferences are tarred as "racist" for disagreeing with a "liberal" political position. People for the American Way also funds the MediaTransparency site.
By contrast, every effort has been made in the creation of DiscoverTheNetworks to avoid conflating subjective judgments about policy differences with factual descriptions of attitudes expressed by the individuals and organizations listed on this site. Individuals and organizations identified as "Marxist" or "socialist," or as having agendas sympathetic to America's adversaries, are so identified on the basis of their explicit commitment to these agendas. Their profiles are generally linked to analytic articles whose authors and sources are clearly identified. If any errors have been made in characterizing individuals or organizations, the editors of DiscoverTheNetworks will correct these as soon as they are brought to their attention. As already noted, a form is provided on the homepage of this site for this purpose.
DiscoverTheNetworks is not by intent or design or consequence a "snitch file," as the former lieutenant governor of Colorado has absurdly proposed. To whom would the site be snitching and about what criminal activity?! Is the lieutenant governor implying that the leftists identified in this site are hiding something that should not be submitted to public scrutiny? Is she aware of some governmental authority with an official list of forbidden viewpoints ready to impose penalties on the subjects in this base for having offensive ideas? How would the lieutenant governor know in advance of examining the site what its nature and intentions might be? Isn't her accusation an example itself of the guilt-by-association and innuendo she claims in her column to fear?
The purpose of the DiscoverTheNetworks site is not to stifle free speech but to clarify it. We recognize that people are not always candid in what they say in public life, particularly in the arena of political discourse. Truth in political advertising would be a more accurate description of our intentions in assembling this data.
The problem of deceptive public presentation is common enough to all sides in the political debate but applies with special force to the left, which has a long and well-documented history of dissembling about its agendas. In the past, the Communist Party, for example, operated through "front" groups which concealed the radical agendas of those who controlled them. In the 1948 elections, the Party created an entire electoral front - the Progressive Party - to run a candidate in Henry Wallace who opposed the Cold War against Stalin. During the congressional investigations into the covert activities of the Communist Party, its leaders appeared before government panels to proclaim their patriotism and to describe themselves as avid defenders of free speech, denying that they had any radical agendas at all. In fact the Communist Party was an organization dedicated to the overthrow of the American political system, the establishment of a proletarian dictatorship, and the elimination of free speech for those whom it regarded as the "class enemy."
The disingenuous tradition of the political left has continued into the present. In the 1960s, the radical organizers of the mass anti-war demonstrations pretended that their only interest was to "Bring the Troops Home," when in fact their agendas embraced a radical menu that was anti-capitalist and welcomed a Communist victory. In the campaign against the war in Iraq, a similar pattern emerged, as the information provided in this database clearly demonstrates (ANTI-WAR).
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Excellent. This site is invaluable for people who want to know the truth about people and groups the leftist media portrays as mainstream.
The truth is like Holy Water to the left, and this site is Holy Water.
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Excellent. This site is invaluable for people who want to know the truth about people and groups the leftist media portrays as mainstream.
The truth is like Holy Water to the left, and this site is Holy Water.
I suppse it is the "answer" to sites like Think Progress, etc. But I wouldn't take a thing from the Think Progress website and call it fact. They are just as biased.
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>> But I wouldn't take a thing from the Think Progress website and call it fact.<<
Let me know if you find something that's incorrect on the discover the network site.
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>> But I wouldn't take a thing from the Think Progress website and call it fact.<<
Let me know if you find something that's incorrect on the discover the network site.
I disagree with their assessment of ISNA. It's pure hysterics. ISNA has been combed through by the Feds countless times since 9/11. As an organization, they stand beyond reproach.
Is it possible that someone within ISNA is radical? Sure. But the entire organization is not the threat that is suggested by Discover the Network site.
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You are of course entitled to your opinion, which you have already admitted is biased.
I suggest those who are interested do some independent research into who this group associates with and where they get their money.
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You are of course entitled to your opinion, which you have already admitted is biased.
I suggest those who are interested do some independent research into who this group associates with and where they get their money.
OK. If what you suggest is true, doesn't that suggest an extreme flaw in our government's ability to crack down on the issues?
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>>OK. If what you suggest is true, doesn't that suggest an extreme flaw in our government's ability to crack down on the issues?<<
Strawman.
I have no idea, nor do you, what the government is doing regarding this group. I only posted the information in the interest of full disclosure.
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Muslim charities to be forum topic
September 3, 2007
BY NIRAJ WARIKOO
FREE PRESS STAFF WRITER
Metro Detroit Muslims and Arab Americans say the government crackdown on Muslim charities has been too tight, ensnaring what they see as innocent efforts to help needy people.
But the federal government says its actions, including raids, are a move to stanch the flow of money to terrorist groups in the Islamic world.
As Ramadan, a time of fasting and giving, approaches, the U.S. Attorney in Detroit, Stephen Murphy, is hosting a forum Tuesday in Dearborn on charitable donations to address concerns of metro Detroit Muslims and Arab Americans.
An official with the U.S. Treasury Department who deals with terrorist financing also plans to attend the forum.
Murphy said in a news release that the forum "should provide helpful information to all those of generous heart who want to make charitable donations without worrying about whether their money is going to some place they really don't want it to go."
During the Islamic holy month of Ramadan, which starts next week, many Muslims donate money to charities to help Muslims in need. The donations, known as zakat, are one of the main religious obligations for many Muslims.
After the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, the U.S. government took a closer look at Islamic charities to examine whether they were financing extremist groups.
In September 2006, federal agents raided the Southfield-based Muslim charity Life for Relief and Development, hauling away documents in an investigation of the group's work in Iraq. And in July, agents raided two Shi'ite Muslim charities in Dearborn, Al-Mabarrat Charitable Organization and Goodwill Charitable Organization. Goodwill's assets were frozen by the Treasury Department; Al-Mabarrat remains open.
None of the charities or their members have been charged with any crime.
But the raids and publicity around them unfairly hurts their reputations, said attorney Shereef Akeel. Akeel represents Life, Al-Mabarrat, and another charity, Islamic American Relief Agency, which was raided in 2004. All three were targeted just before the start of Ramadan, the timing of which concerns Akeel and others. Akeel said the government raids hurt the charity's efforts to help Muslims and damage the United States' image in the Islamic world.
Imad Hamad, regional director of the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee and cohost of Tuesday's event, is calling for the government to come up with clear regulations about how charities can operate.
"There should be clear mechanisms, procedures, and processes in place that are regulated," by the government, Hamad said.
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070903/NEWS05/709030322/1001/NEWS
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>>Metro Detroit Muslims and Arab Americans say the government crackdown on Muslim charities has been too tight, ensnaring what they see as innocent efforts to help needy people.<<
Exactly what I would expect a radical Islamic group to say.
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Honestly Miss Henny, how is America treating "every" American Muslim as suspect?? I do believe that's more hyperbole than substance.
I think those who are considered "suspect" are those acting in a suspicious manner, such as those Muslims on the airline, where they kept changing seats, asking for extra safety belts that they didn't use, all the while publically proclaiming how much they disliked America & Bush.
I think those who are considered "suspect" are those who refuse to acknowledge terrorist actions by Islamic radicals, even going so far as to justify their acts of terrorism, frequently trying to change the subject to Israeli abuses.
I think those who are considered "suspect" are those who support the acts of Muslim extremists & radicals, while denouncing any criticism of such as "sterotyping all Muslims as suspect"
At least, that's what I think
As someone who has a really good Muslim friend, I can tell you that it is pure discrimination. Anytime we went through checkpoints, he got frisked (we both worked for the Government, until he moved recently). People would constantly ask him stupid questions or even send him hateful email.
You don't even want to know how his wife, an alabaster-skinned red-headed American who converted to Islam, was treated by people who found out that she had converted to Islam.
So no, people should think before spouting a lot of the hateful rhetoric I've witnessed, even right here, because such things have recourse in reality.
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>>Metro Detroit Muslims and Arab Americans say the government crackdown on Muslim charities has been too tight, ensnaring what they see as innocent efforts to help needy people.<<
Exactly what I would expect a radical Islamic group to say.
What makes Metro Detroit Muslims and Arab Americans a "radical Islamic group?"
There are a great deal of poor people in nations throughout the Islamic world (and the Christian world as well, or perhaps the world in general is a better way to say it). We shouldn't shut down groups that are honestly trying to help those who are in need. Not all of the Islamic states are oil rich Gulf states.
Just like not all Christian nations are economic powers like the United States. Some, like Haiti or the Phillipines, have monumental poverty (or in fact, parts of the United States itself).
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>>What makes Metro Detroit Muslims and Arab Americans a "radical Islamic group?"<<
Nothing that I know of at this time. I didn't say they were. My point is that what they say regarding the governments efforts to expose terrorist support groups is what I would suspect a terrorist support group to say.
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Nothing that I know of at this time. I didn't say they were.
Yes you did. You just said that you expected no different from a radical Islamic group.
My point is that what they say regarding the governments efforts to expose terrorist support groups is what I would suspect a terrorist support group to say.
Well that's a pointless statement. You might as well be dunking a 16th century "witch" and saying that her denial is proof that she is a witch.
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>>Yes you did. You just said that you expected no different from a radical Islamic group.<<
I thought it was clear enough. I would expect someone who is guilty to deny it. That's not the same as saying they are guilty. I have no idea.
>>You might as well be dunking a 16th century "witch" and saying that her denial is proof that she is a witch.<<
I see you have come to your own pointless conclusion. Oh well.
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As someone who has a really good Muslim friend, I can tell you that it is pure discrimination. Anytime we went through checkpoints, he got frisked (we both worked for the Government, until he moved recently). People would constantly ask him stupid questions or even send him hateful email.
Then those are ignorant, stupid people. My wife and I are as caucasion as one can get, and we are frequently "frisked"
You don't even want to know how his wife, an alabaster-skinned red-headed American who converted to Islam, was treated by people who found out that she had converted to Islam.
See above reference to there's a lot of stupid, ignorant people in this world
So no, people should think before spouting a lot of the hateful rhetoric I've witnessed, even right here, because such things have recourse in reality.
Ummmm, who said people shouldn't think before they speak?? That's a universal courtesy.....except of course on shows like Air America I suppose
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http://www.terrorismawareness.org/islamic-mein-kampf/
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Then those are ignorant, stupid people. My wife and I are as caucasion as one can get, and we are frequently "frisked"
Well, no need to get into personal details. Those "ignorant, stupid people" are the government security officers.
See above reference to there's a lot of stupid, ignorant people in this world
And those "stupid, ignorant people" are voters no doubt.
Ummmm, who said people shouldn't think before they speak?? That's a universal courtesy.....except of course on shows like Air America I suppose
Right...
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I thought it was clear enough. I would expect someone who is guilty to deny it. That's not the same as saying they are guilty. I have no idea.
Well, admitting you have no idea is the first intelligent response you've uttered in this thread.
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Those "ignorant, stupid people" are the government security officers.
explain?
I thought their supposed to frisk people it`s their job
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>>Well, admitting you have no idea is the first intelligent response you've uttered in this thread.<<
You're hardly the best judge of what is and isn't intelligent. I'm sorry if I was speaking over your head. I'll do my best to bring it down to your level next time junior.
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Then those are ignorant, stupid people. My wife and I are as caucasion as one can get, and we are frequently "frisked"
Well, no need to get into personal details. Those "ignorant, stupid people" are the government security officers.
You mean Government security officers were sending the hateful e-mails & asking stupid questions?? What airport you flying out of, so I can try to avoid it.
And those "stupid, ignorant people" are voters no doubt.
And........that has what to do with the price of tea in China??
Ummmm, who said people shouldn't think before they speak?? That's a universal courtesy
Right...
It's not??
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Honestly Miss Henny, how is America treating "every" American Muslim as suspect?? I do believe that's more hyperbole than substance.
I think those who are considered "suspect" are those acting in a suspicious manner, such as those Muslims on the airline, where they kept changing seats, asking for extra safety belts that they didn't use, all the while publically proclaiming how much they disliked America & Bush.
I think those who are considered "suspect" are those who refuse to acknowledge terrorist actions by Islamic radicals, even going so far as to justify their acts of terrorism, frequently trying to change the subject to Israeli abuses.
I think those who are considered "suspect" are those who support the acts of Muslim extremists & radicals, while denouncing any criticism of such as "sterotyping all Muslims as suspect"
At least, that's what I think
As someone who has a really good Muslim friend, I can tell you that it is pure discrimination. Anytime we went through checkpoints, he got frisked (we both worked for the Government, until he moved recently). People would constantly ask him stupid questions or even send him hateful email.
You don't even want to know how his wife, an alabaster-skinned red-headed American who converted to Islam, was treated by people who found out that she had converted to Islam.
So no, people should think before spouting a lot of the hateful rhetoric I've witnessed, even right here, because such things have recourse in reality.
JS: "You don't even want to know how his wife, an alabaster-skinned red-headed American who converted to Islam, was treated by people who found out that she had converted to Islam."
It is digusting that people would treat this person disrespectfully, especially since she is a woman. You must always treat women with respect, even when they make the most hideous of choices.
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Honestly Miss Henny, how is America treating "every" American Muslim as suspect?? I do believe that's more hyperbole than substance.
I think those who are considered "suspect" are those acting in a suspicious manner, such as those Muslims on the airline, where they kept changing seats, asking for extra safety belts that they didn't use, all the while publically proclaiming how much they disliked America & Bush.
I think those who are considered "suspect" are those who refuse to acknowledge terrorist actions by Islamic radicals, even going so far as to justify their acts of terrorism, frequently trying to change the subject to Israeli abuses.
I think those who are considered "suspect" are those who support the acts of Muslim extremists & radicals, while denouncing any criticism of such as "sterotyping all Muslims as suspect"
At least, that's what I think
As someone who has a really good Muslim friend, I can tell you that it is pure discrimination. Anytime we went through checkpoints, he got frisked (we both worked for the Government, until he moved recently). People would constantly ask him stupid questions or even send him hateful email.
You don't even want to know how his wife, an alabaster-skinned red-headed American who converted to Islam, was treated by people who found out that she had converted to Islam.
So no, people should think before spouting a lot of the hateful rhetoric I've witnessed, even right here, because such things have recourse in reality.
JS: "So no, people should think before spouting a lot of the hateful rhetoric I've witnessed, even right here, because such things have recourse in reality."
Is this a type of impiled threat? Speak your peace, man. Spit it out.
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>>Metro Detroit Muslims and Arab Americans say the government crackdown on Muslim charities has been too tight, ensnaring what they see as innocent efforts to help needy people.<<
Exactly what I would expect a radical Islamic group to say.
What makes Metro Detroit Muslims and Arab Americans a "radical Islamic group?"
There are a great deal of poor people in nations throughout the Islamic world (and the Christian world as well, or perhaps the world in general is a better way to say it). We shouldn't shut down groups that are honestly trying to help those who are in need. Not all of the Islamic states are oil rich Gulf states.
Just like not all Christian nations are economic powers like the United States. Some, like Haiti or the Phillipines, have monumental poverty (or in fact, parts of the United States itself).
This is true. There are people in need, regardless their religious affiliation. There are physicans, as an example, who serve the needs of ALL, as it should be. When on humanitarian missions while in the Service, I helped any and all who were within the misison parameters, regardless their ethnic background, etc. As it should be.
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Nothing that I know of at this time. I didn't say they were.
Yes you did. You just said that you expected no different from a radical Islamic group.
My point is that what they say regarding the governments efforts to expose terrorist support groups is what I would suspect a terrorist support group to say.
Well that's a pointless statement. You might as well be dunking a 16th century "witch" and saying that her denial is proof that she is a witch.
If groups like these are found, after thorough investigation, to be terrorist groups, then their financials should be seized and given to the less fortunate or a similar deed implemented and the members subjected to the most severest forms of the criminal justice system or beat senseless, whichever can be gotten away with. :-)
If they are innocent, however, then let them pursue their noteworthy aims, regarldess their religious affiliation.
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>>Metro Detroit Muslims and Arab Americans say the government crackdown on Muslim charities has been too tight, ensnaring what they see as innocent efforts to help needy people.<<
Exactly what I would expect a radical Islamic group to say.
What makes Metro Detroit Muslims and Arab Americans a "radical Islamic group?"
There are a great deal of poor people in nations throughout the Islamic world (and the Christian world as well, or perhaps the world in general is a better way to say it). We shouldn't shut down groups that are honestly trying to help those who are in need. Not all of the Islamic states are oil rich Gulf states.
Just like not all Christian nations are economic powers like the United States. Some, like Haiti or the Phillipines, have monumental poverty (or in fact, parts of the United States itself).
This is true. There are people in need, regardless their religious affiliation. There are physicans, as an example, who serve the needs of ALL, as it should be. When on humanitarian missions while in the Service, I hleped any and all who were within the misison parameters, regardless their ethnic background, etc. As it should be.
Absolutely true, and well said Mr. Perceptive.
I've seen it in action in the Middle East; my Muslim and Arab brother-in-law is engaged to marry an Israeli Jew (Oy! This has the 2 families involved very upset) and she is a Chiropractor participating in Doctors Without Borders in Gaza and the West Bank.
(Although I've joked about the need of a chiropractic care in poverty-stricken areas, she says that I don't understand the entire spectrum of the care involved, and that chiropractors are trained to do general examinations as well.)
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http://www.terrorismawareness.org/islamic-mein-kampf/
Just went to this site. Interesting that such sites exist. I am, however, not sure that what this site displays is really all that important, namely that the President of Iraq is akin to Adolf Hitler.
They are both extremists, so in this they have something in common. But the Presidnet of Iraq is a nincompoop who is mostly hot air in my opinion. Once you identify a blowhard as such, then all dealings with that person can be taken in a more humorous note.
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Those "ignorant, stupid people" are the government security officers.
explain?
I thought their supposed to frisk people it`s their job
I believe it is the profiling that is being addressed here.
I fly frequently and have never been frisked. I must have an innocent face and a calm demeanor. ;D
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I fly frequently and have never been frisked. I must have an innocent face and a calm demeanor. ;D
:P
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However, I did arm-wrestle in a friendly manner with a TSA type at the airport. He turned out to be a friend of one of my recruits several years ago. He mentioned how "atrophied" my muscles looked these days (hell, I'm sixty now but can still bench-press 330 thank you!) and I retaliated that he probably hung small ones (I recognized him and he obviously recognized me) so we arm wrestled right there at the baggage screening area (no one else was around). This was at the Wichita airport in off hours.
I have read of much consternation about these TSA screenings, but I have had no problems at all. I take off my shoes and belt and have never had any problems. They all seemed professional to me.
That being the case, I do agree that the concept of profiling is a valid policy in this era we live in. It should be carefully monitoroied by third party inspection teams, of course, but still a valid technique, at least from the little I have read. As one example, due to 9-11, I certainly would single out people who looked suspicious for special observation and that incldues those who "look Middle Eastern." If a terrorist form Figi had committed 9-11, I would be profiling those who "look Pacific Asian".
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I kinda like those travel restriction
it means I don`t carry all that crap anymore.
it`s down to one carry all now and laptop
no wasting time waiting at the luggage pickup
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Nothing that I know of at this time. I didn't say they were.
Yes you did. You just said that you expected no different from a radical Islamic group.
My point is that what they say regarding the governments efforts to expose terrorist support groups is what I would suspect a terrorist support group to say.
Well that's a pointless statement. You might as well be dunking a 16th century "witch" and saying that her denial is proof that she is a witch.
Denial can't be taken as proof of guilt of course , but neither is it much evidence of innocence.
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In the people responsible for examineing passengers getting on a plane in Israel have a lot of leeway , but are trained well.
They look carefully for people who behave abnormally and do not refrain from looking directly into the eyes of the passengers.
Their success rate is pretty good , is it really hard to hide your heart from your eyes?
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Perhaps an analysis should be conducted as to the success of the TSA officers and approrpiate training taken if it indeed is clear they are substandard. Perhpas setting a standard as high as the Isrealis might be an excellent start.
I always set as an example for my men the highest of the highest. As an example, you can typically tell a lot about weapon quality by looking at what weapons the Isrealis either purchase outright or steal. For example, they dislike the M-16 and its ilk and prefer H&Ks. They patterned the Merkava tank after the Abrams. They don't particularly like the Bradley and so on.
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Perhaps an analysis should be conducted as to the success of the TSA officers and approrpiate training taken if it indeed is clear they are substandard. Perhpas setting a standard as high as the Isrealis might be an excellent start.
From my travel experiences abroad, most countries set a much higher standard than U.S. security. Even after 9/11.
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Back to the thrust of the original post, if the Muslim community is concenred about being stereotyped, why has it taken them this long to "come out of the closet?" Why the belated PR campaign? Why didn't they spout it from the rooftops after 9-11 and continue this PR campaign until actual results were achieved? Why don't they reign in their more radical brethren who apparently are the cause of much of this "sterotyping"? If I read your posts correctly, you are Muslim, so educate us...
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Back to the thrust of the original post, if the Muslim community is concenred about being stereotyped, why has it taken them this long to "come out of the closet?" Why the belated PR campaign? Why didn't they spout it from the rooftops after 9-11 and continue this PR campaign until actual results were achieved? Why don't they reign in their more radical brethren who apparently are the cause of much of this "sterotyping"? If I read your posts correctly, you are Muslim, so educate us...
I am well versed in Islam, lived in Jordan for a year and am fluent in Arabic. I was born and raised in the U.S., and I am Christian and of European descent. My family is Arab and Muslim, so it is a very personal issue for me. I know I am biased, as I have been so often accused, but I've also had a chance to see things and experience things personally that most here haven't, and I try to share that whenever possible. Anyway, enough biography.
I truly don't believe that the PR campaign is belated. I remember seeing it locally, nationally and internationally right after 9/11. Perhaps it is a matter of perception and what people want to see. I know there have been times over the years following 9/11 where I have posted excerpts of that information in this forum (and predecessors). If I have time I'll try to get some of that info again and post it for you.
I don't know how the Muslims of the world can go about reigning in the more radical elements of their religion. But I do think it's unfair to expect them to do so. If so, how should they do that? Keep in mind, we're talking about regular people, just like those of us here, who are trying to live their lives and survive in the world.
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I don't know how the Muslims of the world can go about reigning in the more radical elements of their religion. But I do think it's unfair to expect them to do so.
If the goal is peace, then it's absolutely imperative & a necessary expectation, since this war against militant Islam can't be won by force alone, especially foreign force.