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[Xavier_Onassis]

Homeschooling is among the least regulated forms of schooling, and consistently produces a higher quality of education.

The allegation is mostly anecdotal. While it is true that SOME homeschooled kids get all manner of scholarships, they are not all tested upon graduation in the same way, and the ones who learned very little don;t even apply to college.

Homeschooling could easily be better. But it could also be a total disaster. We have no figures to prove it is always best, or better.

I am not against it, either. I am sure that I would have been a far better educated hs grad had the Internet existed when I was growing up.

[Amianthus]

The allegation is mostly anecdotal. While it is true that SOME homeschooled kids get all manner of scholarships, they are not all tested upon graduation in the same way, and the ones who learned very little don;t even apply to college.

Most states require the same standardized tests for home schooled kids as for public and private school kids. So, the tests are there, and they seem to show that home schooled kids get a better education in the basics ("3 Rs"). Many claim that this result is skewed because only parents that want their kids to get a good education would go to the trouble and expense of home schooling...

[Michael Tee]

<<Perhaps , but more likely , about halfway into this project there will be a NATZI revival.>>

That's about as likely as another Caliphate.

[Xavier_Onassis]

At that point Turkey might make good use of its close ties with Isreal.

But who would we side with?
====================================================
I don't think the Turkish people favor Israel at all. They just don't like the Arabs.

The Turkish government has been secular for decades, and Turks do not respond to "Muslim Brotherhood" appeals. The government deals with Israel, because Jews have money, and Turkey need capital.

There won't be any war between European Muslims and Christians, because Muslims are rarely any sort od devout beyond th third generation. There aren't many devout European Christians, either.

[Plane]

>> Perhaps , but more likely , about halfway into this project there will be a NATZI revival. <<

That's a distinct possibility. Lots of people are predicting just that.

>>At that point Turkey might make good use of its close ties with Isreal.<<

I'm not sure what you mean.

>>But who would we side with?<<

Considering Muslim's would be an considered an invading force, or at least rebel I can only imagine we would side with our allies. That is if we have any left after this election.

Turks have a good relationship with Isreal , there are even quite a few Turks employed in Isreal.

If Brownshirts start makeing riot against Muslims , we can't side with the brownshirts , but would the Muslims allow us to side with them?

Would we avoid involvement ? I don't think we could avoid involvement because always at least one side will want us.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Would we avoid involvement ? I don't think we could avoid involvement because always at least one side will want us.

==============================
So what?
Committing our troops to die is a big deal. We get involved in far too many wars.

[Cynthia]

DIFFERENCE BETWEEN COMMUNISM AND SOCIALISM: COMMUNIST MANIFESTO
 There’s little difference between Communism and Socialism, let’s look at seven of the ten Communist Manifesto points and consider how it all applies to America today:

Abolition of property
Heavy, progressive taxes
Abolition of inheritance
Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels
Central banking
State-controlled communication and transport
State-controlled education of the children
DIFFERENCE BETWEEN COMMUNISM AND SOCIALISM: COMMUNISM IN AMERICA
Again, there’s little difference between Communism and Socialism. Both are alive and well in today’s America. Just look at the similarities between the above Communist Manifesto points and the reality we live with in America.



It does no good whatever to actually answer the questions that you pose, does it?

I suppose you are against the government running schools and building highways. Who is going to do this otherwise?

No, and I wasn't posting to you anyway, Xavier.

I did not ask you anything, btw. I was replying to Mtee's post. I am posting a thought here...not a question.

Do you believe that the statement I posted is false...if so why?

[Xavier_Onassis]

Abolition of property
Very occasionally, the US government claims the right of pubic domain to take property for public projects. The owner is always compensated. This was never done in the USSR'

Heavy, progressive taxes
This is not something the Communists do: they own everything and everyone is on their payroll, remember? They just pay you whatever they want. They tax liquor and tobacco to discourage smoking and drunkenness in some Communist countries.  At a lower rate than in the US, by the way.

Taxes in the US are not heavy and are not very progressive. Many, like the sales tax, are regressive.

Abolition of inheritance
There were taxes on the first million dollars. The rate was 30% or so. The rest the heirs could keep.

Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels
When has this happened in the US? Give some examples. They confiscate money over $10,000 that has not been declared when one is leaving the country with it. They confiscate drugs and illegal items, like nail clippers and box cutters. After the Civil War, only some plantations were confiscated, none since. There have been no rebels since.

Central banking
You mean the Federal Reserve? It is a privately owned entity. It belongs to the banks.

State-controlled communication and transport
Please. Every modern country has public highways. Buses and trains are public because the cannot turn a profit when privately owned. There are plenty of private schols and tollroads to keep anyone happy.

State-controlled education of the children
There are private schools available to anyone who pays for them. Public schools are a feature of ALL modern countries.


None of this amounts to Communism. Or even Socialism

No one, other than the Socialist Workers Party, actually advocates a Marxist system in the US.

I suspect that you have never read the Communist Manifesto or Das Kapital, which means you really do not have much reason to claim to be an expert.

[Cynthia]

Abolition of property
Very occasionally, the US government claims the right of pubic domain to take property for public projects. The owner is always compensated. This was never done in the USSR'

Heavy, progressive taxes
This is not something the Communists do: they own everything and everyone is on their payroll, remember? They just pay you whatever they want. They tax liquor and tobacco to discourage smoking and drunkenness in some Communist countries.  At a lower rate than in the US, by the way.

Taxes in the US are not heavy and are not very progressive. Many, like the sales tax, are regressive.

Abolition of inheritance
There were taxes on the first million dollars. The rate was 30% or so. The rest the heirs could keep.

Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels
When has this happened in the US? Give some examples. They confiscate money over $10,000 that has not been declared when one is leaving the country with it. They confiscate drugs and illegal items, like nail clippers and box cutters. After the Civil War, only some plantations were confiscated, none since. There have been no rebels since.

Central banking
You mean the Federal Reserve? It is a privately owned entity. It belongs to the banks.

State-controlled communication and transport
Please. Every modern country has public highways. Buses and trains are public because the cannot turn a profit when privately owned. There are plenty of private schols and tollroads to keep anyone happy.

State-controlled education of the children
There are private schools available to anyone who pays for them. Public schools are a feature of ALL modern countries.


None of this amounts to Communism. Or even Socialism

No one, other than the Socialist Workers Party, actually advocates a Marxist system in the US.

I suspect that you have never read the Communist Manifesto or Das Kapital, which means you really do not have much reason to claim to be an expert.

"I suspect that you have never read the Communist Manifesto or Das Kapital, which means you really do not have much reason to claim to be an expert."

ahhh but you would be so wrong there. You are not only wrong about your statement...but you are wrong about your own understanding of the Manifesto.

btw,  You are a patronizing bit of frustration. But, then again, you aren't always right, as I have heard from the likes of Ami and others. I have to say that you almost had my respect with your post here, until you made that comment at the end.

I am done with you. 

////////////////"X",you have crossed into the land of Sirs and his rash spitting comments. Not like you...not like you.///////////////////

[Xavier_Onassis]

So you ARE claiming to be an expert on Communism?  Why do you claim this?

[Cynthia]

So you ARE claiming to be an expert on Communism?  Why do you claim this?
[/quoteI


I have read the manifesto, asshole.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Now read Das Kapital. See you in July.

The various "similarities" between Communism and the US government you quoted are not accurate, as I pointed out. High taxes are not a feature of any Communist society. The state is the only employer and decides everyone's salary.

I don't think much of Communism, and I am not terribly fond of capitalism as practiced in the US, either. I am a pragmatist, and it seems to me that the form of government that provides the greatest good for the greatest number (an ideal of Jeremy Bentham's I think is a valid goal) seems to be the governments of the Scandinavian countries, especially Denmark, and the Netherlands. Each of these provides for a multiparty, elected democratic government (the presence of a king in some Sweden, Denmark, and the Netherlands, and a republic in Finland and Iceland makes little difference), and a stable, comfortable society where everyone has a place and poverty of the nasty sort I see every day in Miami does not exist. The name for this is mixed-economy Socialism or Social Democracy.

Iceland recently made a fatal flaw of exploiting its semi-membership in the EC in the banking mess, and that was a really bad idea. Of course, in Iceland keeping warm and transportation are not the major problems they are in the US, as geysers and geothermal provides electricity and steam heat for all, and the inhabited area of the island involves little travel.

If your comparison of the two systems is what you have gleaned from reading the Communist Manifesto, perhaps you should at least give it another look. because your comparison is just wrong about both systems. I don't think this would be too necessary, because we will never have a Communist government in the US. A Socialist government does seem possible, and that is no danger, as there is not a single casae in history where a Democratic Socialist government has reverted to a non-elective Communist one.

I think there was some government in the tiny Republic of San Marino and the City of Bologna in Italy that claimed to be Communist that was elected, but both places have never ceased to be democratic.

You can continue to call me an asshole, but keep in mind that this is unlikely to make your perceptions correct, if indeed that is your goal.

[Cynthia]

Now read Das Kapital. See you in July.

The various "similarities" between Communism and the US government you quoted are not accurate, as I pointed out. High taxes are not a feature of any Communist society. The state is the only employer and decides everyone's salary.

I don't think much of Communism, and I am not terribly fond of capitalism as practiced in the US, either. I am a pragmatist, and it seems to me that the form of government that provides the greatest good for the greatest number (an ideal of Jeremy Bentham's I think is a valid goal) seems to be the governments of the Scandinavian countries, especially Denmark, and the Netherlands. Each of these provides for a multiparty, elected democratic government (the presence of a king in some Sweden, Denmark, and the Netherlands, and a republic in Finland and Iceland makes little difference), and a stable, comfortable society where everyone has a place and poverty of the nasty sort I see every day in Miami does not exist. The name for this is mixed-economy Socialism or Social Democracy.

Iceland recently made a fatal flaw of exploiting its semi-membership in the EC in the banking mess, and that was a really bad idea. Of course, in Iceland keeping warm and transportation are not the major problems they are in the US, as geysers and geothermal provides electricity and steam heat for all, and the inhabited area of the island involves little travel.

If your comparison of the two systems is what you have gleaned from reading the Communist Manifesto, perhaps you should at least give it another look. because your comparison is just wrong about both systems. I don't think this would be too necessary, because we will never have a Communist government in the US. A Socialist government does seem possible, and that is no danger, as there is not a single casae in history where a Democratic Socialist government has reverted to a non-elective Communist one.

I think there was some government in the tiny Republic of San Marino and the City of Bologna in Italy that claimed to be Communist that was elected, but both places have never ceased to be democratic.

You can continue to call me an asshole, but keep in mind that this is unlikely to make your perceptions correct, if indeed that is your goal.

No, I was just a bit overly sensitive, Xavier. Sorry.
You're not an asshole.

I'm enjoying a four day respite, so I am back to my softer" self.....
I was stressed a bit when I wrote that. My father and I sat down together and read the Manifesto together a couple of years ago. I trust my father's analysis of the interpretation he shared with me about the very essence of the document's intention.

The line item step by step proposals written in the gut of the document, appear to equate to an eventual plan to implant communism into a state through socialism ideals. That's all I was saying when I posted the section of the feedback from the website.

I will read more on the subject. I will. I always do, and yet I wonder if there is more to the story than a couple of DHS individual claiming "Say it aint so"...as you and Mtee have in so many words.

[Cynthia]

I know of NO ONE who advocates making private schools illegal. Who did you have in mind?

There have been statements around here about eliminating homeschooling, and making public schools the only form of education.

All schools need to be regulated in some way to assure that students are learning basic skills. Do you think private schools should be entirely unregulated?

Homeschooling is among the least regulated forms of schooling, and consistently produces a higher quality of education.

"There have been statements around here about eliminating homeschooling, and making public schools the only form of education."

 I can't recall anyone saying blatantly that homeschooling should be completely eliminiated. ..and that public schools should be the ONLY form of education. Well, perhaps someone said that....but I sure hope you didn't mean me.

I do have to say this, public schools should be priority one when it comes to receiving support, as well as a desperate overhaul. Sometimes I feel as though people want to throw the PS OUT with the bath water. I am not saying that you believe this to be true...so not talkin' about you here. The NCLB act has finally stepped up to the plate as a vehicle on the path to improvement. As I see things as a PS teacher, the individual districts, within the individual States are clearly responsible for the punitive actions against teachers and children in the end. That's sad. We have to collect data at least four times a week now! More data collection less time for teaching.

But, the act  is a good thing, it is. Someday the States and districts will catch up with the actual premise of the NCLB act. One would think that the administrators involved at every level in the process would get a clue...nope....it's the teachers who have to walk in the muck, at the cost of children's very right to learn. Shameful.

So, I predict that someday the very administrator who is responsible for cracking the whip will find her/his butt on the frontline of being FIRED...I can only hope. In the meantime, I say let's not bash any source of education.....be it Homeschooling, Public School, Private School. The standardized tests aren't to blame either. It takes six years to see progress 'on paper' when a new program has been implemented in the curriculum. Those programs are research based, and proven to work. The bad news is that it takes time to see the "best practices" goal come to fruition. Time is of the essence according to the ACT's demands. We have been at this for several years already, and lucky us ..we have a few more years to get those ducks in a row. (in a perfect world). The problem is the world isn't perfect. I do have to say that the time constraints of the NCLB act set things into an uphill battle- motion, imo. But, I do believe HONESTLY I DO...that the premise fo teh act is a great thing for the public school system. If the act helps revive the PS systems across this nation, then I hope someday to be a part of a system that sits next to the quality homeschooling/private institution systems in the land called education in this country.