Author Topic: Solicitor General Elena Kagan  (Read 11736 times)

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sirs

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Re: Solicitor General Elena Kagan
« Reply #60 on: May 12, 2010, 04:28:30 PM »
The Same Phony "Moderate" Baloney

It's more than a little tiresome to contemplate that every current liberal Supreme Court justice was touted by the national media as a moderate or even a conservative when they were originally announced, from John Paul Stevens to Sonia Sotomayor. Dan Rather even claimed the last retiree, David Souter, was dangerously "anti-women's rights" when he was nominated in 1990. So it was less than shocking that the latest liberal nominee, Elena Kagan, drew the same phony "moderate" baloney.

ABC anchor Diane Sawyer greeted the nomination with goo: "She is expected to play a role as somewhat of a conciliator, the bridge across the conservative and liberal wings of the court. In fact, she loves opera, which Justice Scalia loves." What more evidence of her judicial philosophy do we need? CBS reporter Lesley Stahl announced on MSNBC that she was a conciliator that could bring the two parties together, just like Obama, conveniently placing both of them in the political middle. Washington Post editorialist Eva Rodriguez even complained that her terrorist-detention cases as solicitor general might suggest she looks like a "hard-right ideologue who would have fit right in" with Team Bush.

As with Sotomayor & Co., media liberals greeted Kagan's record as a great mystery, and because of that, no one should "pigeonhole" this woman as a liberal. But there it was in black and white in a sympathetic New York Times profile. She spent the summer of 1980 working to elect a left-wing Democrat, Elizabeth Holtzman, to the Senate. "On Election Night, she drowned her sorrow in vodka and tonic as Ronald Reagan took the White House and Ms. Holtzman lost to 'an ultraconservative machine politician,' she wrote, named Alfonse D'Amato."

Maybe she's not a liberal. If she thinks Al D'Amato is an "ultraconservative," then she might just be a radical leftist.

What may be a little more surprising is that liberal reporters were touting Kagan as a centrist before Obama won the White House. On Oct. 30, 2008, National Public Radio legal reporter Nina Totenberg insisted Obama would name a woman to the high court, and "the names mentioned most often as possible Obama appointments tend to the center-left. They include federal Judge Sonia Sotomayor (who has the additional plus of being Hispanic), Harvard Law School Dean Elena Kagan, Michigan Gov. Jennifer Granholm, and some commentators have talked about Hillary Clinton."

There you have it: NPR's definition of a roomful of centrists.

On May 9, 2008, liberal CNN legal analyst Sunny Hostin touted Kagan as an Obama pick: "She was counsel to President Clinton and clerked for Thurgood Marshall. So she would be an excellent choice." Despite these liberal associations, Kagan was not ideological at all, while John McCain would ruin the magic, since he would have picked "a very conservative type of judge." The Republicans are always picking an ultraconservative. The Democrats just have a great eye for quality.

Even back on March 5, 2004, a New York Times op-ed by Chris Sprigman argued that John Kerry should nominate a "shadow cabinet" to show voters how much more moderate and established his team would be. Kagan could have been prematurely declared Kerry's attorney general: "Elena Kagan, the first female dean of Harvard Law School and a former counsel to President Bill Clinton, could be shadow attorney general and draw attention to the worst excesses of John Ashcroft."

Kagan's complete lack of judicial experience would set the stage for controversy if the president were Republican. Remember Harriet Miers? Not even her real moderation helped in their eyes. The media blasted her, insisting there was more cronyism than qualifications there. But on some measures of the real world of lawyering, Miers had more experience than Kagan.

But the media don't question the qualifications of liberals. Anyone who's chosen the liberal side has already proven her intelligence. Anyone who's named dean of the Harvard Law School is "eminently qualified" to tell the rest of America what to think. And anyone who circulated in all the same Ivy League and Upper West Side "progressive" circles can't possibly be controversial.

The entire media jury pool on the matter of Kagan's ideology is galloping in the streets with their own liberal blinders firmly attached, like the New Yorker film critic Pauline Kael, who infamously expressed the thought in 1972 that Richard Nixon couldn't possibly be elected, since "No one I know voted for Nixon."

And then they have the audacity to maintain they are the uniquely "open-minded" ones.
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: Solicitor General Elena Kagan
« Reply #61 on: May 12, 2010, 05:25:55 PM »
Quote
When Kagan argues about the possible "harm" coming from free speech, its generic, and is applicable to anything and everything speech, political speech included, if some higher power deems it "harmful" in some potential form

I think you might want to reread your post and the links that go with it. Hell, just read what she herself wrote instead of relying on other folks to tell you what she said.

If anything her opinion strengthens the first, not weakens or changes it

sirs

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Re: Solicitor General Elena Kagan
« Reply #62 on: May 12, 2010, 05:37:26 PM »
I did, and you'd be wrong.  "Redistribution of speech" were her words.  She specifically referenced if such speech might be "harmful", and where the Supreme Court should step in to largely make new law, in identifying what is to be acceptable speech, and what is deemed "harmful", and thus restricted
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Solicitor General Elena Kagan
« Reply #63 on: May 12, 2010, 05:41:25 PM »
BT....you could be partly right....I suppose with the info shown below
we could probably have got someone much worse....I dont trust
her or Obama...but there are probably much worse SC candidates than Kagan.



May 12, 2010
Elena Kagan's No Liberal

By Ellen Ratner

President Obama has nominated someone he thinks can make it through the confirmation process, not someone who can fill Justice Stevens shoes on the Court.
 
Anyone who thinks that Elena Kagan as a nominee for the Supreme Court is a replacement for Justice Stevens is dreaming. President Obama went for a choice that he knew would make it through the confirmation process. He wanted someone who would not ruffle too many of the feathers of the moderate Republican lawmakers he needs to pass his legislative agenda as well as approve her nomination.

The Tea Party right is already taking aim. They are accusing her of a left-wing agenda since she banned military recruiters on the Harvard Law School campus. They are all over her senior college thesis on the decline of socialism. The problem is that the thesis is not her view, it was an academic exploration on why socialism failed in the early part of the last century. Her thesis adviser said she was the furthest thing from a socialist and always had been.

My concerns have to do with some of her stated positions. When she appeared before Congress at her confirmation hearings to become solicitor general, she was asked if she agreed that we're at war. She said she did. And she stated that indefinite detention without trial could apply even if someone was not picked up on a literal battlefield, such as somebody in the Philippines who might be suspected of financing Al Qaeda terror networks around the world. She agreed with this statement. There isn't a liberal in the world that would agree on indefinite detention, let alone picking up someone not in a battlefield situation.

Her other opinions include a declaration that gay marriage is not a constitutional right. Her views on a strong executive branch fly directly in the face of those who believe in more balance among the three branches of government.

Her hiring record at Harvard Law School is scary. Out of thirty-two tenure and tenure track positions, one was a minority and seven were women. That is not exactly a sterling record for someone whom the right would like to paint as a liberal. She may bring diversity to the Court, but her hiring practices at Harvard Law School certainly did not bring them there.

President Obama has chosen somebody with a scant paper trail, who hired conservatives at Harvard Law School. Elena Kagan is not someone who will fill Justice Stevens' shoes. That time has probably passed and it saddens those of us who hope that the Court remembers Justice Earl Warren and the more liberal interpretation of the law. Elena Kagan just doesn't fit the bill.

Ellen Ratner is Washington Bureau Chief for Talk Radio News Service and a Fox News contributor.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/05/12/ellen-ratner-obama-elena-kagan-supreme-court-stevens-liberal-harvard/
« Last Edit: May 12, 2010, 09:18:22 PM by ChristiansUnited4LessGvt »
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

sirs

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Re: Solicitor General Elena Kagan
« Reply #64 on: May 12, 2010, 06:18:11 PM »
Y tu, Cu4?        ;)
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Solicitor General Elena Kagan
« Reply #65 on: May 12, 2010, 06:22:36 PM »
Y tu, Cu4?        ;)

SPEAK ENGLISH SIRS!
THIS IS THE UNITED STATES
I REFUSE TO "PRESS 3" FOR SIRSISM
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

sirs

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Re: Solicitor General Elena Kagan
« Reply #66 on: May 12, 2010, 06:23:23 PM »
 :D
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Solicitor General Elena Kagan
« Reply #67 on: May 12, 2010, 06:31:41 PM »
plus i heard she opposed late term murder abortion!

we could do worse....and SIRS looking at her...I dont see
her living to be elderly.....so we could do much worse and
she wont serve that long compared to most.
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

sirs

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Re: Solicitor General Elena Kagan
« Reply #68 on: May 12, 2010, 06:39:39 PM »
She's only 50 Cu4.  She'll be there for likely the rest of my lifetime.  and no, I'm not buying the phony "moderate" baloney

Not from what I've read and seen from her so far.  Al D'Amato is an "ultraconservative", in her view??
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Solicitor General Elena Kagan
« Reply #69 on: May 12, 2010, 06:48:25 PM »
i never said she was a moderate
she may be ok on 5 issues in 30
thats still very liberal
but a hell of a lot better than bad on 30 out 30 issues
the point being we could do much worse
we dont hold the cards

and yeah she is 50
but look at her

i assure you she wont see 70...maybe not 60
michelle obama should outlaw Ms Kagan's cookies and ice cream!


« Last Edit: May 12, 2010, 06:55:06 PM by ChristiansUnited4LessGvt »
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Plane

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Re: Solicitor General Elena Kagan
« Reply #70 on: May 12, 2010, 07:49:50 PM »
Quote
So if the military agrees with that, she will then respect them?

I don't see where she has shown disrespect to them, unless disagreeing with policy equals disrespecting those you disagree with.

Have we come to that?


Do you think that she respectfully  banned military recruiters on the Harvard Law School campus?

Do you suppose that she  presented a "clear and present danger" to the government's recruitment efforts for the war?

Harvard lawyers were not being drafted after all , why was it good to shield them from persuasion?


I am thinking that this attitude could be summed up as " All of you bigots are not welcome here , you must go away, with all due respect to each of you.".

BT

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Re: Solicitor General Elena Kagan
« Reply #71 on: May 12, 2010, 08:41:19 PM »
Quote
Do you think that she respectfully  banned military recruiters on the Harvard Law School campus?

Recruiters were effectively banned since 1979 except for a brief period between the 3rd circuits decision and Kagan's decision to rescind the policy prior to the Scotus decision.

Making it sound like the banning was all on her is disingenuous at best.

Quote
Do you suppose that she  presented a "clear and present danger" to the government's recruitment efforts for the war?

That wasn't the issue. The issue was whether Harvard's policy of banning entities that discriminate could be banned from campus and the resulting ban allow for the Solomon Amendment to kick in, defunding Harvard of Federal Dollars. The 3rd agreed they could ban the entity because of discriminatory practices and the Solomon Amendment would not apply. Scotus disagreed and said the Feds would be justified in withholding funding. 

Quote
Harvard lawyers were not being drafted after all , why was it good to shield them from persuasion?

No one was being drafted at the time of the controversy.

But you do bring up a salient point. She allowed the Executive Branch of the government to recruit Harvard Law grads and that branch was as responsible for DADT as the DOD was for implementing it.

Then again often that is the difference between pragmatism and symbolic protest. My guess is more Harvard grads would end up at Justice than they would as JAGS.


Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Solicitor General Elena Kagan
« Reply #72 on: May 12, 2010, 08:54:49 PM »
I do not see any big deal about banning military recruiters at Harvard Law School. It's not like Harvard students were banned from enlisting if they wished.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

BT

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Re: Solicitor General Elena Kagan
« Reply #73 on: May 12, 2010, 08:59:41 PM »
I did, and you'd be wrong.  "Redistribution of speech" were her words.  She specifically referenced if such speech might be "harmful", and where the Supreme Court should step in to largely make new law, in identifying what is to be acceptable speech, and what is deemed "harmful", and thus restricted

From your article and your emphasis:

She argued that government can restrict speech if it believes that speech might cause harm, either directly or by inciting others to do harm.  

Are you aware that that is settled law?

The First Amendment holding in Schenck was later overturned by Brandenburg v. Ohio, which limited the scope of banned speech to that which would be directed to and likely to incite imminent lawless action (e.g. a riot). The test in Brandenburg is the current High Court jurisprudence on the ability of government to proscribe speech after that fact.

Seems her opinion piece specifically says that Obama can't suppress Rush's speech just because he doesn't like what Rush says. Even if Timothy McVeigh had Rush's name tattoed on his butt, Kagan advocated looking into Clinton's motivation when he accuses Rush of inciting violence.

Plane

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Re: Solicitor General Elena Kagan
« Reply #74 on: May 12, 2010, 10:11:30 PM »

Making it sound like the banning was all on her is disingenuous at best.



I know it was not her alone , but when she became cheif she became responsible , even for policys she continued from previous administrators.

Was she just one of the croud or a leader in the situation?

If she takes on a leadership role but does not lead , just follows along , this is a worser problem than merely being wrong.