Author Topic: Sex thoughts lead to trial  (Read 2533 times)

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Richpo64

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Sex thoughts lead to trial
« on: July 17, 2007, 12:34:24 PM »
Original Story URL:
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=633030
 
Sex thoughts lead to trial
Court to decide if deviant imaginings make man a predator
By DAVID DOEGE
Posted: July 15, 2007

Waukesha - When Michael Monyelle stands trial next month, prosecutors aim to show that he is among the state's most dangerous sexual predators and should be committed - perhaps for the rest of his life - for treatment as a "sexually violent person."

But what landed Monyelle in hot water wasn't anything he did.

It was what he thought.

He told his parole agent that he was having deviant thoughts about children, and his disclosures are being used against him by prosecutors who contend he is apt to act on his thoughts.

"I started to look at the shoes and I saw a little girl about 7, I think," Monyelle told his agent of his visit to a thrift store shortly after his release from prison for having consensual sexual contact with two underage girls when he was 19 and 20, according to court records. "I couldn't get a good look, so I went around to the other side to get a better look.

"That is all I did. . . . Sometimes I have thoughts of kidnapping kids, too.

"I see kids on the street and I look and I have (deviant) thoughts. But I keep on going to where I was going."

Because of his sexual contact with the girls a decade ago and with a 9-year-old boy when he was 16, Monyelle's thoughts show he is a danger, according to a commitment petition.

Monyelle "is dangerous to others because his mental disorder makes it likely he will engage in acts of sexual violence," the petition says.

The 1994 law that enables authorities to commit sex offenders to secure inpatient treatment as "sexually violent persons" typically is used when they are about to be released from prison and are considered a risk to re-offend because of inadequate treatment while incarcerated.

Monyelle, however, finds himself facing possible commitment under the law primarily because he shared disturbing thoughts with his agent while he was under supervision in the community.

A 'judgment call'
Linda Morrison, executive director of the Wisconsin Coalition Against Sexual Assault, termed the decision to seek a commitment under such circumstances "a judgment call."

"These cases are very complicated," Morrison said. "You've got to start somewhere to look for markers that are indicators of possible future violence.

"The judgment here is that the thoughts he is expressing are indicating what is in his head and what could lead to violence."

Monyelle, 30, of Waukesha, was placed on 10 years of probation in 1997 on two counts of second-degree sexual assault of a child for relationships he had with two girls, one 16 and the other 14. Both girls willingly participated in the sex but were legally underage.

In 1999, Monyelle had his probation revoked and was sent to prison because of inadequate participation in a treatment program for sex offenders.

In 2004, he was paroled with a requirement that he participate in treatment. The following year, he was taken into custody three times, according to court records, for having deviant thoughts about children that he did not report to his treatment group and delayed reporting to his agent.

Kids trigger thoughts
Some of the thoughts, he said, concerned his sister's young children, whom he encountered at her home.

"I haven't told her that I'm sexually attracted to the kids," he said in the statement. "I have sexual thoughts about all the children."

He also reported having sexual thoughts while at work, once when a woman with an infant child walked past.

"I have sexual thoughts about little and older girls and boys, anything sexual," he wrote in the statement.

His parole was revoked in June 2005 after he provided the statement, and he has been in custody since. In April 2006, the state attorney general's office filed a petition to have Monyelle committed indefinitely for treatment under the sexually violent person law.

The three standard assessments used in such cases set Monyelle's potential for re-offending in the years ahead between 49% and 70%. The results, according to psychologist Anthony Jurek, indicate "that it is likely (more likely than not) that (Monyelle) will engage in sexually violent behavior in the future."

The prosecutor in the case, Assistant Attorney General Jeffrey Gabrysiak, has indicated in a motion that he intends to use Monyelle's remarks to his agent about his deviant thoughts in his upcoming trial.

Monyelle's attorney, R. Steven Prifogle, could not be reached for comment. However, court records indicate that a psychologist retained by the defense, Luis Rosell, has concluded that Monyelle "does not pose a serious risk for sexual violence" and can be safely returned to Waukesha on parole, which would expire in August 2008.

If prosecutors convince a jury that Monyelle is a danger to act out on the thoughts he expressed, he will be committed indefinitely for treatment and can petition once a year for a supervised release.

Michael Tee

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Re: Sex thoughts lead to trial
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2007, 01:23:48 PM »
Interesting values question - - who does society  protect, and at whose expense, the children or the sexual deviants?

 In this case, the lines aren't as clearly drawn as they could be, but what if you had three shrinks all swearingg that in cases like this, there is a 99% likelihood of a sexual assault on a child?  A 70% likelihood?  66 2/3 % likelihood?  50% likelihood?

Amianthus

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Re: Sex thoughts lead to trial
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2007, 01:32:44 PM »
Interesting values question - - who does society  protect, and at whose expense, the children or the sexual deviants?

 In this case, the lines aren't as clearly drawn as they could be, but what if you had three shrinks all swearingg that in cases like this, there is a 99% likelihood of a sexual assault on a child?  A 70% likelihood?  66 2/3 % likelihood?  50% likelihood?

Sorry, thought police are anathema to me.

Until a person is harmed, any person should be free to think what he likes.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Michael Tee

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Re: Sex thoughts lead to trial
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2007, 01:39:42 PM »
<<Sorry, thought police are anathema to me.

<<Until a person is harmed, any person should be free to think what he likes.>>

My sentiments exactly.  I was merely pointing out the societal dilemma and the clash of values.  Sometimes innocent life (and what life could be more innocent than a child's?) is the price society pays for its freedoms.

In the real world, once the guy has offended, I see nothing wrong with forcing him to wear electronic homing devices and keeping him on a very tight parole leash (as the alternative to a life sentence for a first offence) just to make sure nobody else gets hurt.

kimba1

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Re: Sex thoughts lead to trial
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2007, 01:42:06 PM »
tricky

I have no doubt his guy needs to be under observation.
but this case may deter other people wanting treatment if they have those very same thought.
one of the reason very few people seek therapy is the fear they will be taken away.
by the time they don`t care anymore the condition can be too severe to treat.
I just don`t know if this makes things worst or better.
at least he admitted it
we need to encourage folks to do this more often
the only reason we only recently been catching these guy is because they`re getting blatant
what the russian guys do is just beyound scarey evil




Plane

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Re: Sex thoughts lead to trial
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2007, 04:50:00 PM »
It is a matter of time , there will someday be a tecnical means of determineing the thoughts of a person with certainty , it may not be very long.


What will become of our fifth admendmendment then?

Michael Tee

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Re: Sex thoughts lead to trial
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2007, 04:57:43 PM »
<<It is a matter of time , there will someday be a tecnical means of determineing the thoughts of a person with certainty , it may not be very long.


<<What will become of our fifth admendmendment then?>>

It'll be protected by laws similar to the wiretap laws.  Whoever has the technology still would need a judge's permit to apply it.

Amianthus

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Re: Sex thoughts lead to trial
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2007, 05:01:57 PM »
It'll be protected by laws similar to the wiretap laws.  Whoever has the technology still would need a judge's permit to apply it.

The wiretap laws were pretty well gutted during the Clinton Administration.

Hopefully, they'll be better laws than the wiretap laws.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Plane

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Re: Sex thoughts lead to trial
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2007, 05:03:40 PM »
<<It is a matter of time , there will someday be a tecnical means of determineing the thoughts of a person with certainty , it may not be very long.


<<What will become of our fifth admendmendment then?>>

It'll be protected by laws similar to the wiretap laws.  Whoever has the technology still would need a judge's permit to apply it.


How strong is the Canadian version of the fifth admendment?

kimba1

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Re: Sex thoughts lead to trial
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2007, 06:40:52 PM »
I can`t believe I`m doing this.
should we be concentraiting on dealing with this situation than rights?
the guy admitting thinking this
shoudn`t we focus on how to handle this
meaning to get more of these guys to seek treatment or help before any harm is done.
this guy did by telling his parole agent.
we should be doing something to makle this happen more often
I would be more worried of his rights if this was info taken from a private conversation
but if was him telling a somebody required to turnin such info to the authority


Michael Tee

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Re: Sex thoughts lead to trial
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2007, 10:13:48 PM »
<<How strong is the Canadian version of the fifth admendment?>>

I think now it's about comparable to the U.S. Fifth.  I'm not sure if it's been around all that long.  It's in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which is a bargain-basement and highly inferior knock-off of the Bill of Rights enacted in the early 1980s when Canada finally  became fully and legally independent from Great Britain.  But before that it was available in restricted form in Provincial and Federal statutes and before that I think in English common law but I'm not sure to what extent.

Plane

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Re: Sex thoughts lead to trial
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2007, 12:29:06 AM »
I can`t believe I`m doing this.
should we be concentraiting on dealing with this situation than rights?
the guy admitting thinking this
shoudn`t we focus on how to handle this
meaning to get more of these guys to seek treatment or help before any harm is done.
this guy did by telling his parole agent.
we should be doing something to makle this happen more often
I would be more worried of his rights if this was info taken from a private conversation
but if was him telling a somebody required to turnin such info to the authority




I guess he ought to be warned about what the consequence of acting out this fantasy would be.

If we lock people up for ther fantacys Stephen King will never get out .

You are right tho he is telling his parole officer this , why he would choose to reveil this to the one person mot likely to take action against his freedom makes me wonder if the guy really wants to be free.

kimba1

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Re: Sex thoughts lead to trial
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2007, 01:41:02 PM »
that`s the point
isn`t this a good thing if we people starting getting help before something happens.
stephen king is most likely not bothered by his thoughts and hasn`t been compelled by his thoughts to do harm.
this guys acknowledge he has thoughts and talked to somebody.


Plane

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Re: Sex thoughts lead to trial
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2007, 03:57:24 PM »
that`s the point
isn`t this a good thing if we people starting getting help before something happens.
stephen king is most likely not bothered by his thoughts and hasn`t been compelled by his thoughts to do harm.
this guys acknowledge he has thoughts and talked to somebody.



Yes as far as we know Stephen King hasn't caused any harm , he just thinks in terms of horror.

A lot.

What this guy said about his thoughts might be reson to look into his case closely and determine whether he is being harmfull , but although the suspicion he is getting seems deserved , I don't think he can be locked up just for haveing an indecent thought .

Won't the Parole officer be able to refer this to a qualified psycotherapist who can help determine the mans relationship with reality and his level of responsibility and self controll ?

He may be comitted for treatment if he is leagally insane and deemed a threat by authority , but this is more than just admitting to an evil thought.

kimba1

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Re: Sex thoughts lead to trial
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2007, 04:48:57 PM »
He may be comitted for treatment if he is leagally insane and deemed a threat by authority , but this is more than just admitting to an evil thought.

this is what`s going on with him
they did  determine he maybe a danger
I`m just pointing out he didn`t do anything and he admitted to those thoughts to the right person to handle this.
it`s not the thoughts thats the problem
it`s his response to those thoughts
remember he never really had to say this.
and the real scarey thing is most don`t
I know some really really bad guys out there.
they truely don`t know right from wrong.
reality is a slipery slope to alot of folks.