DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Plane on January 26, 2008, 05:17:17 PM
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Does HuffPost's Say No To Pollsters campaign mean we will stop reporting on poll results? No, we will continue reporting them but treat them as lightweight diversions on par with horoscopes and political betting lines. To this end, we are introducing HuffPollstrology.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/
I agree , polls have become a tool for professional politicians to use to manipulate us all , they also use them as a preferable substitute for thought.
There is little origional or new or thinking outside the box when all the decisions are the result of polling.
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Eve worse than polls are the thirty-second ads, all of which suck.
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Eve worse than polls are the thirty-second ads, all of which suck.
I agree .
A truely usefull TV comercial would tell the voter something usefull in makeing his choice.
That seems to be very hard to do , you seldom see it.
Another choice is to make an appeal based on the same propaganda principals tat sell us so much soap.
This must not be too tough , it is commonly seen.
If I was produceing a comercial for a canadate I would make a series of them each one would ask the canadate a question and the rest of the time would be his answer. In the background I would show beautiful or shcking scenes of landscape or people that had something to do with the subject of the commercial queation /answer .
I would want the questins to be pertanant to the common concerns of the people , I would want the answer to be long enough to convey the nuance of the canadates position .
Each commercial just one question , ten diffrent commercials so that the viewing public can see them in rotation and avoid being boerd with them.
BTW
Brassmask is involved in the film business , I really ought to ask him what he thinks would make these things better.
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Plane?
Hello?
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they also use them as a preferable substitute for thought.
One of the most astute observations I've seen in some time.
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In a way it is not really the campaign's fault. Their polls and survyes indicate that people nowadays want sound bites not substance. I beliee this is also a reason why network news is so dumbed down.
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In a way it is not really the campaign's fault. Their polls and survyes indicate that people nowadays want sound bites not substance. I beliee this is also a reason why network news is so dumbed down.
Network news is a "show" these days......I worry that we won't really get truth in news with all the rhetoric in the media.
There's a whole other world out there, and we are so focused on the media news taht we lose sight of what is happening in the world....classrooms, board meetings, etc....it's like going to a restaurant, eating the meal and then taking a sneak peek at the kitchen...the lettuce is on the floor, sweat is dripping from the brow of the chefs/cooks..sloppy and all..and we just thought we had a meal to write home about. ha!
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In a way it is not really the campaign's fault. Their polls and surveys indicate that people nowadays want sound bites not substance. I believe this is also a reason why network news is so dumbed down.
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People do not want "sound bites and not substance". But people do REACT to these emotional and illogical appeals more, and thirty seconds costs more than fifteen minutes.
We have these ghastly awful infomercials that can go on for thirty minutes over some asshole product like a mop or a steam cleaner or a simple cheapo exercise machine- far longer than any sane person would wish to watch them. Most people that buy these things never seem to get the fact that they are sold for years and years , just advertised in different markets, and if you really wanted a Steam Genie or a Gazelle, you could easily snag one on e-bay for a fraction of the advertised price.
But then to decide the fate of the country, we have thrity second ads that tell us to vote for "change". Change from Juniorbush is certainly one description of what we need, but change by itself could mean so many things (a nuclear strike on Nepal, a tax on beards) that the word itself is meaningless.
The airwaves belong to the people, and presumably the broadcast stations are allowed to use them all the time for only a small fee. It would make a lot more sense to REQUIRE that broadcast time be given to candidates for FREE, so that turuly useful campaigns woudl result.
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In a way it is not really the campaign's fault. Their polls and surveys indicate that people nowadays want sound bites not substance. I believe this is also a reason why network news is so dumbed down.
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People do not want "sound bites and not substance". But people do REACT to these emotional and illogical appeals more, and thirty seconds costs more than fifteen minutes.
We have these ghastly awful infomercials that can go on for thirty minutes over some asshole product like a mop or a steam cleaner or a simple cheapo exercise machine- far longer than any sane person would wish to watch them. Most people that buy these things never seem to get the fact that they are sold for years and years , just advertised in different markets, and if you really wanted a Steam Genie or a Gazelle, you could easily snag one on e-bay for a fraction of the advertised price.
But then to decide the fate of the country, we have thrity second ads that tell us to vote for "change". Change from Juniorbush is certainly one description of what we need, but change by itself could mean so many things (a nuclear strike on Nepal, a tax on beards) that the word itself is meaningless.
The airwaves belong to the people, and presumably the broadcast stations are allowed to use them all the time for only a small fee. It would make a lot more sense to REQUIRE that broadcast time be given to candidates for FREE, so that turuly useful campaigns woudl result.
I believe you might be mistaken, XO. People generally by and large DO want soundbites as they report they are too busy for anything else (or at least they THINK they are). And the reaosn why infomercials work is because people purchase their products, so they actually DO serve a purpose.
You said: "The airwaves belong to the people, and presumably the broadcast stations are allowed to use them all the time for only a small fee. It would make a lot more sense to REQUIRE that broadcast time be given to candidates for FREE, so that turuly useful campaigns woudl result."
Gosh, no thanks! Even more feldercarb? I don't think so or make it after midnight. The free market should decide these issues, but if you really wanted it be otherwise, at least place them in some time I don't HAVE to listen to the forked-tongue yakking or put thme on select channel(s). Gosh! Talk about falling to sleep!
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FLASH! you don't EVER have to watch TV. Many people have cable, and the government only owns the AIRWAVES, so this is an increasingly smaller segment.
I don't think anyone wants to watch lousy 30-second commercials about anything.
Useful ads should do one of two things:
(1) Inform you of some previously unknown product or service.
(2) Serve to introduce price competition.
Seeing the same spot of Beyonc? dancing about with an "upgrade' sign in her mouth 500 times in none month about some deceptive crap concerning digital broadcasts on satellite is none of these.
I think an informed public should be able to make better choices for president. I can't imagine a worse choice than goddamned Juniorbush and Cheney. Their ads were ghastly awful for both the last elections, and the Democrats' ads were not much better, all short unformitive crap seeking to scare the voters, or remind us of what the flag looks like.
The Swiftboat ads were the very worst of all, since they had nothing truthful or useful to say at all.
WE only have elections every two years. The stations could easily show a limited number of informative ads. What we have not sucks and could not be worse. It causes all those who campaign to sell their souls to buy horseshit ads that serve no useful purpose.
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The airwaves belong to the people, and presumably the broadcast stations are allowed to use them all the time for only a small fee. It would make a lot more sense to REQUIRE that broadcast time be given to candidates for FREE, so that turuly useful campaigns woudl result.
Great idea...so why don't they do this now?
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Prof says;
And the reason why infomercials work is because people purchase their products, so they actually DO serve a purpose.
I don't think people watch them to buy the product, necessarily, Prof.
Perhaps they watch them because they are too lazy to flip the flipper and change the channel, or they take advantage of the long winded blurbs in order to use the WC, pour a cup of java, mow the lawn..whatever.
Or perhaps they watch them because they feel that someone is taking the time to talk to their lonely souls long enough to pacify a need for a real conversation-- on the tube!
Or could it be that they buy the product, as it satisfies an addictive need----to buy online/on tube--- home TV shopping. Do you Q? I sure don't! But I do online buyline. :-X
As for serving a purpose, Professor, I wonder about that. The only product I've ever purchased that also happens to be sold via an infomercial is Oxyclean.....but here's the story;
When I first moved into my new home 7 years ago with brand new fresh carpet, etc......One of the construction workers tried to show me how to operate the gas nob on the fireplace...kneeling down on ONE knee to demonstrate his expertise.....he consequently left an ugly stain from his grubby knee jean rubbed on the carpet!!
My realtor, who was just down the street in her office, suggested a stain remover that she used once when her inlaw spilled red wine on her white carpet!!
She brought it right over. I could be a spokesperson for that product, today! It worked like butta'.
But, when I try to tell people about the product they react with skepticism as they would never buy such a thing if it was presented on an infomercial! I aint gunna turn into an Oxy salesperson for the sake of debate...ha!
Oxy something? Go figure.
XO says:
I think an informed public should be able to make better choices for president.
I think we must demand such.
Who's to say that Obama is winning in the south for what he represents as a candidate? Could people be voting based on the tit for tat crap that is happening between the two camps.....Clinton 1 and Clinton 2 and Obama?
Sound bites, not exactly. But the reaction to their squabbles has been all over the news. We'll show her....they might be feeling behind the booth. We'll show him....go go go Obama. GO go go Clinton...cheerleaders reacting to the team's position in a race. Run, Barack, Run.
Who knows.....but I find that this country is ill informed. Heck, unless I read what goes on in here on the board, or a publication of worth, such as the Guardian, I am not nearly as informed if I were to soak up a little local color in the bite world.
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I think an informed public should be able to make better choices for president.
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I think we must demand such.
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YES!
how?
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64 thousand dollar question, Plane.
We can send men/women into outa' space....we can invent the fastest, best, well tuned, finely refined.....in this country....and yet we can only use the $ we have to fight wars. Not wise, I say....and still we lack the ability to find knowledge.
Hmmm, something is wrong. NCLB?
We have left more behind in this nation in terms of first responders to news. Media has the power in this world of ours...and you would think that there would be accountablility in terms of such power to couple with points---points that teach. Offer information...as we do in the classroom....provide facts, thoughts, counter thoughts, threads of history etc...and then set up an arena for more time to think.
Do we get a chance to think in this world of ours? Not really...we have to make quick decisions on a dime...lest we fall behind the "other guy". Competition has an ugly element and that is what is driving the nation. So why not take the issue to the grassroot location?
Where?
Congress?
THe classrooom?
The home?
The lawyers?
The law makers?
Yep.....
Somewhere in there is the answer.
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Well, NOT by mandating public air time! Jericho is coming back on! ;D
And, Ami and I are waitng to see B5: TLT on the air, too!
Put it on CPAN. If you want ot see it, then fine, but I've got idiots to laugh at on "American Idol" first! ;)
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Well, NOT by mandating public air time! Jericho is coming back on! ;D
And, Ami and I are waitng to see B5: TLT on the air, too!
Put it on CPAN. If you want ot see it, then fine, but I've got idiots to laugh at on "American Idol" first! ;)
Laughter is one thing we must have. Must do activity.
Still, don't start mandating anything yet......but give options. Who is providing a way to solve any of these critical issues?
Is electing a president like giving birth? Labor and the pain of it all....then we forget becuase out candidate did pretty well, or at best hit the mark?
We forget that every election season there are similar complaints, concerns and rants about those who are running for the office. We are never happy, but we wait for the cycle to bitch again every 4-8 years.
Nothing has changed. . . as long as there have been elections in this country in terms of mud slinging etc..and promised not kept.
We are in the 21st century with information at our fingertips...why can't we find a way to inform citizens for a longer period of time than a mud slinging bite?
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The airwaves belong to the people, and presumably the broadcast stations are allowed to use them all the time for only a small fee. It would make a lot more sense to REQUIRE that broadcast time be given to candidates for FREE, so that truly useful campaigns would result.
Great idea...so why don't they do this now?
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The broadcasters have a lot of influence with the politicians, and they also like money. This would cost them money. They believe that they own the airwaves that they only rent.
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Most products sold on infomercials cost a huge amount more than comparable products sold in other ways. Some are effective, many are not. I doubt that anyone uses a Gazelle after the first month or so., and those TV 'get rich quick' courses are nearly all BS. I see them for sale at yard sales for $5 or $10 pretty much every week.
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so? ban infomercials or what?
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We are in the 21st century with information at our fingertips...why can't we find a way to inform citizens for a longer period of time than a mud slinging bite?
Last time I checked, candidates can still post videos for free on Youtube and other like sites. And they can be any length the candidate chooses.
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so? ban infomercials or what?
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Perhaps they could have a trade off: allow infomericas between 1AM and 6AM in exchange for free ads during election season.
Some infomercials are truly deceptive, especially the ones with get rich quick schemes.
NO one ever learned the three words that made Tommy Vu rich in real estate. He never revealed them, apparently. Of course, I would say that they did not exist.
More or less like Nixon's Plan to end the Vietnam War.
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We are in the 21st century with information at our fingertips...why can't we find a way to inform citizens for a longer period of time than a mud slinging bite?
Last time I checked, candidates can still post videos for free on Youtube and other like sites. And they can be any length the candidate chooses.
Oh yea...gee...I forgot to check my local listings on YOUTUBE and the like.
Post some of the informative mini videos from the candidates, sometime Ami.
Would love to watch what they have to say....
Seriously, if there is an outlet for information, bring it on..fabulous!
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Oh yea...gee...I forgot to check my local listings on YOUTUBE and the like.
Post some of the informative mini videos from the candidates, sometime Ami.
Would love to watch what they have to say....
Seriously, if there is an outlet for information, bring it on..fabulous!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKsoXHYICqU
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We are in the 21st century with information at our fingertips...why can't we find a way to inform citizens for a longer period of time than a mud slinging bite?
Last time I checked, candidates can still post videos for free on Youtube and other like sites. And they can be any length the candidate chooses.
Oh yea...gee...I forgot to check my local listings on YOUTUBE and the like.
Post some of the informative mini videos from the candidates, sometime Ami.
Would love to watch what they have to say....
Seriously, if there is an outlet for information, bring it on..fabulous!
I said that they CAN, not that they HAVE.
Please read for comprehension.
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LOL...I gotta crush on a man...but he aint Obama.....
He's my man.
Plane,
That's funny.
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Last time I checked, candidates can still post videos for free on Youtube and other like sites. And they can be any length the candidate chooses.
Last time I checked, Candidates can still post"......so I say.....good for them. SO, they can.....have they, will they, do they.....Plane was able to show me what one camp has to say, Ami. jezzz
.....yer about a 9 on the hot-under-collar scale there, Ami....don't get so fired up.
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Plane was able to show me what one camp has to say, Ami. jezzz
No candidates, AFAIK, have posted anything to Youtube. Several SUPPORTING GROUPS have done so, however.
It is, however, a great route - and candidates should take advantage of it. I'm actually surprised that they have not. Routes such as these video sites and public forums like this one are the future of campaigning.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FGFeUIj-Cw&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/user/hillaryclintondotcom
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVKSfwfy0h8
Ron Paul
Sort of a commercial
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5h95s0OuEg
Obama fireside chat.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuWUdUDUIDQ
I am not Mike Hucabee and I did not approve this message.
http://www.mikehuckabee.com/?FuseAction=HQs.Home
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Ami,
Sorry, meant to say your're about a 4 on the tension scale...not 9. ha!
Plane, I just saw a 30 second bite on Obama.....on the tv. He approved the message! wow!
He's going to try his best to solve the problems that children face!
Oops, I missed the details. shucks, Going to have to watch You Tube.