Author Topic: Uh-Oh, Press beginning to link Obama to Farrakhan  (Read 2831 times)

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yellow_crane

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Re: Uh-Oh, Press beginning to link Obama to Farrakhan
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2008, 07:29:26 PM »
Does the Nation of Islam have a positive or negative impact on the black community?


I probably have emotional issues that always seem to land me defending anything that can be in the same ballpark as Robin Hood or Zorro, the righteous defender of the underdogs, specifically political oppression; its my nature, and admitting it retrieves it from pathology.

That said, I do not not Farrakhan as nutsy as most.  First of all, the Black Muslim movement in this country is simply the history of a religion--new, yes but born of legitiment cause--political, economic and racial oppression, and this religion, given a sounding by a neutral mate, can be argued to be far more beneficial to its believers than many of our own highly curious religious enterprises, many of which have more infamily bookkeepers that bona fide chelates.

In those regards, America's Black Muslims are most like the Mormons and Seventh Day Adventists, who forbid drinking and smoking, and encourage the eating of a sensible diet, and not one the grease peddlers like Twinkies promote.  Little Debbie Cakes, for instance, deals almost exclusively in debilitating, disease encouraging junk food that only a Borkian Republican could deny; Little Debbie cakes is owned by the Baptists, Southern, I believe.

The Black Muslims through Elijah M., Malcolm and Louis Farrakhan have been arguably far more effective in truly changing the hearts of criminals in prison than Colson has.  Whites hate and fear the race element in the Black Muslims, but Colson's ranks have few Blacks because, well, wink wink.  Of the two, operating on different frequencies of politics, I would say Colson is the more political.

I won't even mention the effects the religion has on the self-esteem, specifically, of Black males, because it takes somebody free of racist tendency who has read some on the subject from BLACK authors to understand how, in so many ways, the Whites have castrated the Blacks.

Farrakhan does not need to be locked in an unforgiving iron cage like Ezra Pound, but many Whites, relying only on input from their fear, would like him to be.

Oh, and Toms won't speak up for him, but they are under the thumb.

And if anybody is bothered by the fact that Farrakhan and all the Muslims are not for Jesus, you might ask yourself whether or not those who carry the banner for Jesus, at least, have failed them.



    

Michael Tee

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Re: Uh-Oh, Press beginning to link Obama to Farrakhan
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2008, 07:56:52 PM »
I don't understand how one can devote as much space as crane did to Farrakhan without even mentioning once his vicious, Hitler-like attacks on the Jews.  His recruiting of convicts is about as innocent as Hitler recruiting war vets - - every fascist needs a hard-core army of violent men who aren't afraid of jail time; if there aren't many vets ready to convert to Islam and kill for Farrakhan, there are plenty of black convicts to take up the slack.  I'm not impressed by Farrakhan's dietary theories either.  Hitler was a vegetarian and prided himself on it.  As ffor raising the self-esteem of black men, I don't understand why this has to be done at the expense of tearing down the Jews.

But my point isn't really that Farrakhan is a worthless piece of shit with no real accomplishments to point to.  If all his accomplishments had been positive and real, how could they be meaningfully assessed without considering at the same time his race-hatred and his vicious anti-Semitism?  Even real accomplishments would have been over-balanced by his promostion of race hatred and anti-Semitism.

modestyblase

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Re: Uh-Oh, Press beginning to link Obama to Farrakhan
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2008, 08:35:27 PM »
<<Obama is a good church-goin' guy, as he has sold himself. Active in his church, etc.>>

There's a lotta ways anyone can be active in his church.  Where's the proof he picked the preacher or vetted his sermons or got to exercise control over the contents of the preacher's daughters' magazine?

He picked the preacher when he picked the church. He underlined, highlighted, and bolded that when he went public about Wright being his "spiritual mentor". Guilt by association is still guilt.

Whether he had control over the contents or not is not the issue. Personal responsibility for the issuance of the award itself is not what was posed by Cohen; an answer as to if he supports what his mentor supports(a fair question given that his mentor does) is all that has been raised.

BT

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Re: Uh-Oh, Press beginning to link Obama to Farrakhan
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2008, 08:44:18 PM »
Cohen feels the same way about Farrakhan as Mikey does.

And because of that this is more about them than it is Obama.

Hate begets hate.


modestyblase

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Re: Uh-Oh, Press beginning to link Obama to Farrakhan
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2008, 08:51:47 PM »
So what if I were running for office and it came out that my spiritual mentor supported, awarded, and went on international political travel trips with David Duke?

BT

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Re: Uh-Oh, Press beginning to link Obama to Farrakhan
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2008, 09:01:50 PM »
What of it?

I was raised Catholic. Why is it on me that some of my classmates took birth control?

Why would it be on me that one of the priests in the diocese may or may not have molested altar boys.

And why would it be their failure if i no longer practice brand name religion?


The more i look at this the more i think dems still have a negro problem.


modestyblase

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Re: Uh-Oh, Press beginning to link Obama to Farrakhan
« Reply #21 on: January 27, 2008, 09:06:51 PM »
BT - It isn't on you by law except as in your church, its not on you at all, and its not.

But if any practicing catholic told me they were loyal to their church above all, yes, I would ask, particularly if they were running for public office, if the loyalty to their church and its laws outwieghed their loyalty to America and the best interests of their heathen neighbours.

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The more i look at this the more i think dems still have a negro problem.

Some may. Most don't in a public setting. I really don't want to reargue the War of the States, though  ;)

Amianthus

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Re: Uh-Oh, Press beginning to link Obama to Farrakhan
« Reply #22 on: January 27, 2008, 09:18:16 PM »
I don't understand how one can devote as much space as crane did to Farrakhan without even mentioning once his vicious, Hitler-like attacks on the Jews.

Errr, there are quotes from Farrakhan about how great a man Hitler was...
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

yellow_crane

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Re: Uh-Oh, Press beginning to link Obama to Farrakhan
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2008, 09:33:02 PM »
I don't understand how one can devote as much space as crane did to Farrakhan without even mentioning once his vicious, Hitler-like attacks on the Jews.  His recruiting of convicts is about as innocent as Hitler recruiting war vets - - every fascist needs a hard-core army of violent men who aren't afraid of jail time; if there aren't many vets ready to convert to Islam and kill for Farrakhan, there are plenty of black convicts to take up the slack.  I'm not impressed by Farrakhan's dietary theories either.  Hitler was a vegetarian and prided himself on it.  As ffor raising the self-esteem of black men, I don't understand why this has to be done at the expense of tearing down the Jews.

But my point isn't really that Farrakhan is a worthless piece of shit with no real accomplishments to point to.  If all his accomplishments had been positive and real, how could they be meaningfully assessed without considering at the same time his race-hatred and his vicious anti-Semitism?  Even real accomplishments would have been over-balanced by his promostion of race hatred and anti-Semitism.


"The Anti-Defamation League of B'nai B'rith and other reactionary Jewish groups who want to maintain control of Black organizations by trying to tarnish independent Black voices who challenge their control, only prove the point when they hurl the same, tired invectives at leaders like Min Farrakhan whenever he is critical of, or raises questions about Jewish conduct."     --Final Call, newspaper of the Nation of Islam

"Is Israel surrounded by armies now?  These Neocons and Zionists have manipulated Bush and the American government and our boys and girls are dying in Iraq and Afghanistan for the cause of Israel, not for the cause of America.  Israel is the tail wagging the dog, which is America.  You may not like me, and I really don't give a damn.  I'm throwing down the gauntlet down today."  --Louis Farrakhan, 2/26/06

"(John) Kerry said we should have been focusing on Iran.  Now, what do you mean by that, Mr. Kerry?  See, Iran, Syria, Iraq are enemies of Israel because they do not believe that the stealing of Palestinian lands is justified by Bible or Qu'ran.  And there are some orthodox Jews who share that view.  I listen to George Bush talk to AIPAC, and I listen to John Kerry talk to B'nai B'rith, the Anti-Defamation League.  Both of them talking the same thing.  They're sworn to protect Israel."  --Louis Farrakhan


I am surprised at the venom in your post, Tee.  

First of all, your bile seems to suggest that the only consideration to be made about Farrakhan is the Jewish connection.  Farrakhan seems used to that angle.

Lots of "fascist" and "Hitler" nomenclature in your rant.

You been sucking on the B'nai B'rith tit?

I know enough about the B'nai B'rith to know that they attack like guard dogs whenever any criticism of Jewish concerns are raised, and that they label even the slightest, even inferred criticism as a remark from a anti-Semite.  They label anybody an anti-Semite who merely dares to criticize them.


The_Professor

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Re: Uh-Oh, Press beginning to link Obama to Farrakhan
« Reply #24 on: January 27, 2008, 09:41:34 PM »
Just a simple question: is the position of the NOI a racist one?
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Michael Tee

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Re: Uh-Oh, Press beginning to link Obama to Farrakhan
« Reply #25 on: January 27, 2008, 09:42:20 PM »
<<He underlined, highlighted, and bolded that when he went public about Wright being his "spiritual mentor". >>

Well, I don't like to say it, because I liked everything about Obama, but it looks like Obama has a Farrakhan problem.  He'd better prepare a statement that indicates where he stands on Farrakhan, what it was about Wright that made Obama make him his spiritual mentor, and what Obama knew about the Farrakhan-Wright connection when he claimed him as a spiritual mentor.

The problem I see here is that you don't pick a spiritual mentor because you saw his picture on the side of a bus.  Some familiarity with the man's life, works and opinions is required before you can truly say that the man is your mentor.   So did Obama know of Wright's admiration of Farrakhan or did he not?  I would think it would be very, very hard to know enough about Wright to claim him as a mentor and yet not know enough to realize where he stood with respect to Farrakhan.  It would strain credulity.

This is becoming very disappointing.  My own guess is that Obama latched onto Wright and didn't think too much about the Farrakhan connection in the beginning.   When Wright was The Man, and Obama was the neophyte on the rise.  Wright might have had so much to offer that Obama didn't want to rock the boat by objecting to Wright's support of Farrakhan for fear that Wright would respond by dropping him.  His judgment was faulty.  Didn't realize the significance of Farrakhan; or maybe Farrakhan was just one of Wright's wider connections, and not one of stars, Obama may simply have been careless - - overlooked that Wright was even connected to Farrakhan when he made his mentoring statment, not realizing at the time that he was tying himself not only to Wright but to Farrakhan. 

(Kinda like you're out with Dick and Jane and you tell them what an ass-hole Bob is, only realizing once you've said it that Bob is Jane's brother.  Slips like that happen.  Shouldn't in something as important as a political career, but that's what separates the sheep from the goats.  Some guys are just plain careless or stupid, and that is NEVER rewarded in a political career.)  So Obama blurts out without thinking that this guy is his mentor and realizes two seconds later, Holy shit!  that "mentor" and Farrakhan had their dicks up each other's ass five times a week for the past 20 years - - only now it's too late and there's no way he can take back those words.  Dumb, dumb, dumb.

yellow_crane

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Re: Uh-Oh, Press beginning to link Obama to Farrakhan
« Reply #26 on: January 27, 2008, 09:49:20 PM »
Just a simple question: is the position of the NOI a racist one?


Only if Jerusalem's position on Roman rule was racist.

Amianthus

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Re: Uh-Oh, Press beginning to link Obama to Farrakhan
« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2008, 09:52:10 PM »
Errr, there are quotes from Farrakhan about how great a man Hitler was...

Quote
Here the Jews don't like Farrakhan and so they call me 'Hitler'. Well that's a good name. Hitler was a very great man. He wasn't great for me as a Black man but he was a great German and he rose Germany up from the ashes of her defeat by the united force of all of Europe and America after the First World War.
Quote from Louis Farrakhan
Gardell, Mattias, In the Name of Elijah Mohammed: Louis Farrakhan and The Nation of Islam, Duke University Press (1996) ISBN 978-0-8223-1845-3
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Michael Tee

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Re: Uh-Oh, Press beginning to link Obama to Farrakhan
« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2008, 10:29:18 PM »
<<I am surprised at the venom in your post, Tee. >>

I'm a venomous guy, crane.  I don't like Nazis and I don't like people who admire Nazis.  I don't like Hitler and I don't like people who admire Hitler.  I don't like people who make the kind of venomous anti-Semitic remarks that Farrakhan made about the Jews.  Fortunately, I'm not a Christian and don't have to love my enemies.  I can be as venomous as I like about them.

<<First of all, your bile seems to suggest that the only consideration to be made about Farrakhan is the Jewish connection.  Farrakhan seems used to that angle.>>

I don't say it's the only consideration but I take racism seriously.  I took Trent Lott's racism seriously.  I took Senator Macacawitz's racism seriously.  But it looks like a one-way street.  I can only take racism seriously when it's directed against black people?  I can't take it seriously when it's directed by Farrakhan against me?  Why is that?  Aren't I important?  It's terrible for Senator Macacawitz and Trent Lott to direct their racism against blacks, but it's OK for Farrakhan to make racist remarks against me and my family?  Why is that?

<<Lots of "fascist" and "Hitler" nomenclature in your rant.>>

Well, why not?  Who do you think wrote a book about how the Jews should be wiped off the face of the earth?  Albert Schweitzer?  Mother Teresa?

<<You been sucking on the B'nai B'rith tit?

<<I know enough about the B'nai B'rith to know that they attack like guard dogs whenever any criticism of Jewish concerns are raised, and that they label even the slightest, even inferred criticism as a remark from a anti-Semite.  They label anybody an anti-Semite who merely dares to criticize them.>>

Yeah, that's right.  B'nai B'rith are a bunch of ass-holes.  I agree with everything you said about them.  I'm not B'nai B'rith and I call Louis Farrakhan a racist and an anti-Semite.  This time, for this guy, B'nai B'rith got it right too.  If Farrakhan had wanted to take a shot at B'nai B'rith, he'd have been entirely justified.  But B'nai B'rith doesn't speak for me and my family and doesn't speak for a lot of Jews.  It's just a cop-out to use B'nai B'rith to justify what Farrakhan says about the Jews.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Uh-Oh, Press beginning to link Obama to Farrakhan
« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2008, 11:30:53 PM »
Farrakhan, above all, likes the publicity. There is no better way to get mentioned in the press than to attack the Jews. The NOI originally seems to have considered all White folks evil. They were selectively bred to be evil, like pit bulls, according to Elijah Mohammad. But since Farrakhan took over the NOI, most of the dislike of White folks has been concentrated on Jewish White folks, and not because of Zionism, either.

But Obama is not a member of NOI, only a member of a group that called Farrakhan in some way admirable. Farrakhan, as I said, has expressed a variety of NOI ideas that can only be called nutty as the proverbial fruitcake.

It does not seem to me that a President Obama would be in any way anti-Semetic, but if he expresses a desire to not favor Israel as every US president has done, I am sure he will be accused of this.


I suppose we shall have to wait and see where this tale leads.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."