Author Topic: personal thoughts on the Jena 6  (Read 9486 times)

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Universe Prince

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Re: personal thoughts on the Jena 6
« Reply #60 on: September 23, 2007, 08:31:43 PM »

Apparently it is ok for a gang of six to kick the snot out of a  boy because six months earlier someone hung a noose on a tree.


I don't believe anyone is arguing that. The nooses in the tree was one incident of many according to the reports I've read. If the racist incidents had stopped with the nooses in the tree, you might have a point, but they didn't and you don't.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
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BT

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Re: personal thoughts on the Jena 6
« Reply #61 on: September 23, 2007, 08:38:53 PM »
Let's review.

Nooses hung from tree. No one physically harmed.

Snot kicked out of a kid.

Nooses trump the snot kicking.

God bless america.


Universe Prince

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Re: personal thoughts on the Jena 6
« Reply #62 on: September 23, 2007, 08:42:19 PM »

are the nooses something for the jury to consider or the DA, when setting charges?


Seems to me evidence of the factors leading up to the beating would be something for the jury to consider, yes. Isn't the motivation for a crime relevant information? Is it not relevant that this beating took place after some six months of racist insults and actions including nooses in a tree?
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Universe Prince

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Re: personal thoughts on the Jena 6
« Reply #63 on: September 23, 2007, 08:52:35 PM »
Let's review.

Nooses hung from tree. No one physically harmed.

Snot kicked out of a kid.

Nooses trump the snot kicking.

God bless america.


I repeat: If the racist incidents had stopped with the nooses in the tree, you might have a point, but they didn't and you don't. And I'm not arguing the nooses trump the beating. I'm saying the racism is relevant to understanding what happened and why. You may want to simplify this into beating versus nooses, but I don't believe the situation is that simple. The sequence of events was not nooses in tree and then nothing for six months and then suddenly out of the blue some African-American teens beat the snot out of a white student. During that six months there was, according to the reports I've read, a lot of racist talk and actions. Does that excuse the beating, no. But it should be considered as relevant to the situation. But if all you want to see is "Nooses trump the snot kicking", well, frak you.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

BT

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Re: personal thoughts on the Jena 6
« Reply #64 on: September 23, 2007, 09:04:49 PM »
Go frak yourself.

I have no problem with the nooses being introduced in the trial phase of this incident. And if the nooses are a mitigating factor so be it.

I don't have a problem with the noose incident being reported.

But many of the emotional and or logical supporters of the Jena 6 are asking that the charges be dropped to the level of a schoolyard brawl because of the nooses and the back and forth of racial taunts leading to the incident. And that is just wrong.




Michael Tee

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Re: personal thoughts on the Jena 6
« Reply #65 on: September 23, 2007, 11:57:05 PM »
I think you gotta look at the nature of the assault itself.  How serious was it, what degree of violence was employed by the perps and what was the actual damage done to the victim?  Those are the only considerations that should determine what charges are laid because no matter what kind of ass-hole racist pig the victim was, the assailants had no right to take the law into their own hands.  Provocation IMHO is no defence at all because any of the assailants could have just walked away from the provocation - - there was no need to respond with violence because as I understand it, self-defence was not an issue. 

However when the sentence is considered, I think provocation might be a mitigating factor.  Personally in crimes of violence I don't much believe in provocation as a major mitigating factor, I think the state has a much bigger interest in punishing violent crime by setting examples of harsh punishment than it does in discouraging assholism or even  racism.   I think if the state wants to actively discourage racism (and recognizing the First Amendment factors in such a decision, I'm not even sure if the state should get into that business) I'd say that IF they are going to use the criminal law to discourage racism, they should think about introducing new criminal law to penalize racist comments that provoke violence - - that way the racist who is also a victim can be punished for his racism, discouraging others, while at the same time the power of the law to discourage ALL violence is not weakened so that no one is encouraged even marginally to commit violence on his own against racist provocateurs.

Henny

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Re: personal thoughts on the Jena 6
« Reply #66 on: September 24, 2007, 07:43:51 AM »
the boy was egging it on by calling the other boys "niggers."

Source?

I haven't read that at all.

I've read that in several places and also saw it referenced on a couple of the national news networks. I already had a source in here - go back to where I posted from colorofchange.org.

Henny

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Re: personal thoughts on the Jena 6
« Reply #67 on: September 24, 2007, 07:47:08 AM »
Quote
Probably it should be. But I think that the actions on both sides (including previous fights and incidents) were all hate based crimes - it's kind of a wash.

Should previous activity be pertinent in hate crime adjudication?

Or is that for a jury to decide?

Tthis whole thing is about arbitrary decisions by the DA.



I absolutely believe that previous activity should be pertinent, or at the very least all relevant facts leading up to the fight should be presented to the jury. This fight did not happen in a vacuum, nor should it be examined in one.

Henny

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Re: personal thoughts on the Jena 6
« Reply #68 on: September 24, 2007, 07:48:18 AM »
Quote
"He was taken to the hospital, but was released and was well enough to go to a social event that evening."

So, if I take a shot at you during an armed robbery, and miss, I can't be charged with attempted murder simply because you're able to go to a party later that evening? It is the act that is charged, not necessarily the outcome.

Strawman. There was no gun involved here.

Amianthus

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Re: personal thoughts on the Jena 6
« Reply #69 on: September 24, 2007, 08:03:17 AM »
I've read that in several places and also saw it referenced on a couple of the national news networks. I already had a source in here - go back to where I posted from colorofchange.org.

I have not seen it on any of the national news sources.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Henny

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Re: personal thoughts on the Jena 6
« Reply #70 on: September 24, 2007, 08:25:09 AM »
I've read that in several places and also saw it referenced on a couple of the national news networks. I already had a source in here - go back to where I posted from colorofchange.org.

I have not seen it on any of the national news sources.

OK... (what should I say here?)

Ami, go watch more TV.

Amianthus

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Re: personal thoughts on the Jena 6
« Reply #71 on: September 24, 2007, 10:45:28 AM »
Ami, go watch more TV.

I use TV mostly for entertainment. I prefer to get my news from online feeds like AP, Reuters, etc.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

hnumpah

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Re: personal thoughts on the Jena 6
« Reply #72 on: September 24, 2007, 12:40:19 PM »
Quote
Strawman. There was no gun involved here.

No, it isn't - the premise is the same. If I try to kill you during a robbery, and fail, should I not still be charged with attempted murder?
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kimba1

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Re: personal thoughts on the Jena 6
« Reply #73 on: September 24, 2007, 03:13:12 PM »
here`s a bigoted thought on my part
if those kids go without punishment ,wouldn`t this bring the correct message that it`s ok to commit assault if somebody say something that`s insulting to you.
but only if you belong to a privledged to group
I don`t recall folks in that group saying the assault was wrong
I`ll take the hit in being called a bigot
I`m canadian I think I`ll be shielded from most of the blows

Henny

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Re: personal thoughts on the Jena 6
« Reply #74 on: September 24, 2007, 03:26:48 PM »
here`s a bigoted thought on my part
if those kids go without punishment ,wouldn`t this bring the correct message that it`s ok to commit assault if somebody say something that`s insulting to you.
but only if you belong to a privledged to group
I don`t recall folks in that group saying the assault was wrong
I`ll take the hit in being called a bigot
I`m canadian I think I`ll be shielded from most of the blows

No, it's not bigoted on your part. I don't think anyone believes it should go unpunished - they did, after all, commit a crime. It's just the severity of the charges that are in question.