We need more Governors like Arizona Governor Jan Brewer!

[bsb]

"Are you answering by saying you don't now good from bad?"

Not at all. However I now know what you meant by the question though. I think anyway. You're asking me that if I don't buy the god and bible thing how do I know right from wrong? Is that it? Therefore are you saying by asking that question that the only way to know right from wrong is to buy into the bible and god? I want to make absolutely sure that's what you're asking and therefore saying before I reply.

bsb

[Amianthus]

It`s the same reason we`re taught only to eat porkchops well done to avoid parasites. despite modern farming should make them fairly safe to eat medium

You were taught incorrectly. Pork only needs to be brought to 140 degrees briefly (1 minute) to kill trichinosis - and when cooked that way, it is still pink in the middle. Also, freezing pork for 5 days or so before cooking will kill the parasite, regardless of the cooking temperature. I frequently ate rare (or raw) pork when growing up.

[Plane]

"Are you answering by saying you don't now good from bad?"

Not at all. However I now know what you meant by the question though. I think anyway. You're asking me that if I don't buy the god and bible thing how do I know right from wrong? Is that it? Therefore are you saying by asking that question that the only way to know right from wrong is to buy into the bible and god? I want to make absolutely sure that's what you're asking and therefore saying before I reply.

bsb

Oh, you are so cautious with me!

I do not know what the Godless method for recognising wrong is or what it is like.You might tell me something I am unfamilliar with ,I hope so.

Of course, if I am able, I plan to debate whatever you state even if I do understand it quite well, If you want to avoid that, say so and I will just read for information.

[bsb]

Well, why don't we open this debate by you telling what the method of knowing right from wrong is for people like you. Is it just the bible? Does god send you this is right, this is wrong, messages? Does your preacher help you? What exactly goes on?

bsb 

[kimba1]

I love eating pork chop rare.

But I spent  30+ years of my life eating dry tough porkchops. I still see people eating it that way. I only discovered it because I have a bother in-law who cooks everything rare,he will never say it`s underooked.
I`m so happy alton brown said it`s ok to eat.Alton even qouted the exppression about cooking it well done.

[Plane]

Primary is the attempt to understand the will of God .Study of scripture , prayer and discussion in comunity are tools in this effort. Being sensitive to Gods voice is the ideal.

Since I am not equal to God, perfection is not expected , improvement is the aspiration, forgiveness is the grace of God.

The story of Adam and Eve , I understand to be allegorical and an explanation of mans nature , that we have both an impulse to sin and an instinct to understand that sin is wrong.These are inborn qualities that develop into the nature of a person as they grow , does a person allow his sin nature to rule or does he hearken to his sense of right and wrong ? Does a person nourish his sinfullness or seek wisdom to build his righteousness?  None of us escapes this struggle even though for each of us the manner of the struggle is diffrent , for some the struggle is very painfull , for some surrender to error brings on pain, the natural aversion to suffering is often a pothole in the path , just as often an instructive goad onto the right path.


As children we are taught to be sensitive to our own conscince and to understand the basic instructions of Gods word, as life becomes more complex this process should always continue so that increasing maturity is marked by decreasing confusion. That confusing circumstances continue to occur I understand to be part of the testing and instructional nature of our existence on Earth.


The basic difference between a right thing and a wrong thing  is understanding the thing in the way that God does . God understands completely , God loves Justice and also loves Mercy.
Only God will perform this discernment with perfection.

A Christian is encouraged to understand deeply, to value Justice and Mercy , the default position for discernment of the difficult is study of scripture , Prayer and discussion in community.

[bsb]

Plane

It won't let me post what I wrote, cut, and pasted. It keeps telling me "The message body was left empty". I get that problem in here off and on. I'll try again latter. I'm looking forward to the back and forth, it's a good topic.

bsb

[bsb]

>>The basic difference between a right thing and a wrong thing is understanding the thing in the way that God does.<<


Ok, so this for you is why you can't understand how a non-believer, a non-christian, a non-person of god, can get his/her grounding? You feel that if a person isn't trying to understand right from wrong through the eyes of god he, or she, has nothing else to fall back on? Is that it? God, for you, is the right from wrong decider? 

Now, you mentioned that I was being very cautious with you. What I'm doing is trying to make sure I understand where you're coming from. If I start jumping to conclusions it isn't fair to either one of us, or to the debate. I'd just be wasting my time and yours.

So, is my 1st paragraph correct?

bsb

[bsb]

Ok, got it posted.

[kimba1]

In my observation the all groups do not strictly follower thier own rules of whats right or wrong.

ex.Allowing a child to hold a ratllesnake is considered wrong but some christians allow it.

[Plane]

In my observation the all groups do not strictly follower thier own rules of whats right or wrong.

ex.Allowing a child to hold a ratllesnake is considered wrong but some christians allow it.

The ones that allow that consider it right.

I am not one of these, I think that this is an abuse of promised protection. That these services have survivors is testiment either to the liberal grace of God or to an amazeing tolerance by rattlesnakes.

[Plane]

>>The basic difference between a right thing and a wrong thing is understanding the thing in the way that God does.<<


Ok, so this for you is why you can't understand how a non-believer, a non-christian, a non-person of god, can get his/her grounding? You feel that if a person isn't trying to understand right from wrong through the eyes of god he, or she, has nothing else to fall back on? Is that it? God, for you, is the right from wrong decider? 

Now, you mentioned that I was being very cautious with you. What I'm doing is trying to make sure I understand where you're coming from. If I start jumping to conclusions it isn't fair to either one of us, or to the debate. I'd just be wasting my time and yours.

So, is my 1st paragraph correct?

bsb

I don't even know what mechanism or signpost or yardstick for the measurement of Evil , ungood or whatever you have got.

Yes I do plan to pick at it , but where can I start?

[bsb]

Well for me god never entered into it. I mean I went to Sunday school, I knew of the 10 commandments and all, but I never used those, or the bible, or the thought of god as a barometer for knowing the difference between good and bad. For me it was all about the other people in my life. You didn't harm them physically because you just didn't do it. If you did you were estranged either by your own mental instability, or by members of the group. The same thing would apply to steeling. Steeling upsets the apple cart. Where would we be if everyone went around taking things from each other? It's just obvious.

Now, as we grow up and our relationships become more complex, and others depend more on us, and we on them, you need to acquire wisdom. You need to be able to look down the road. You need to be able to understand the ramifications of your discissions. It's not easy. We all make mistakes. But we learn from them and get better and better as we go along and gain experience.

Frankly I'm baffled by the thought of not just having a moral compass on tap without even having to look for it. For me its always been there, I've just had to refine it.

[Plane]

I love eating pork chop rare.

But I spent  30+ years of my life eating dry tough porkchops. I still see people eating it that way. I only discovered it because I have a bother in-law who cooks everything rare,he will never say it`s underooked.
I`m so happy alton brown said it`s ok to eat.Alton even qouted the exppression about cooking it well done.

http://www.amazon.com/2-Cents-Plain-Harry-Golden/dp/B000OCO8YS/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1293500111&sr=1-3

I read this book years ago and its companion volume (Only in America) I thouroughly loved these books , even though I have precious little in common with the author. There is a timeless and universal quality to the observation of life as people live it , even if they are miles , years and culturally remote from the life I live , it is easy reading and also thought provoking what a combination this is.If you find a copy ,read it , you won't be sorry.

In one of the chapters the author tells his Rabbi that the Mosaic dietary laws must have saved the Jews from a lot of Tricnicosis and other disease over the years.

His Rabbi replied " That is not it!"

I can't remember the beautifull simplicity of Harry Golden's language , so I reccomend looking this up later in the sorce I read it in .

Obeying the laws of Moses in your diet is part of being a Kosher Jew. Kosher is a concept of propriety and the key to the concept is obedience.

If the point of avoiding pork and shellfish is avoiding Helmith infestation then the application of heat is a good substitute for avoidance of the forbidden dish , but this is not Kosher at all. Kosher requires obedience .

[bsb]

Actually there is a school of thought that parasites are good for you. The theory is that worms have a beneficial effect on the immune system. Some things apparently, such as asthma, don't occur in populations that are still infected with parasites.