The Muslim Brotherhood is the enemy

[Christians4LessGvt]

Mark Steyn: 'The guy in charge of U.S. intelligence is an idiot'

[sirs]

I clarified my earlier reference that I heard on the radio, which still remains undebunked.  A group, directly linked to the Muslim Brotherhood, assassinated Sadat

Now, you may ignore at your leisure

When did you do that. Did you take back your assertion that the MB did it?

That was done as soon as Cu4 provided additional sources, that demonstrated the offshoots and the question I added as to when can we see the declaration by MB condemning these independent acts of groups directly connected to them

I think that this board would be better served if the folks who want to damn all muslims as jihadists just admit that they think the only good muslim is a dead one and be done with it.

Ahhhh, there we have it.......Bt's big bugaboo is this ongoing pre-disposed condition that criticizing any Muslim is pretty much criticizing all Muslims.  No wonder there's such a knee jerk reaction to trying to defend the likes of the Imam in NY, and the Muslim Brotherhood.  How dare anyone criticize someone(s) who happen to be Muslim....that's religious intolerance & bigotry, dammit

Personally, I think that this board would be better served if some weren't so close minded as to what others were trying to say.  Especially those in a more leadership-like position.  But that's just me

[Henny]

What part do you want refuted, Sirs? The MB is in every corner of the world and always have been. To be honest, I skimmed this. I've been refuting anti-MB propaganda for the past 3 weeks and I'm tired of it.

I can concede you must be tired of it.  And it then becomes easy to call anything critical of MB as merely propoganda.  By all means, take whatever time you need to rest and go at this article, full boar....if you so want the challenge  My point is that perhaps the MB isn't quite as "innocent" and merely looking for democracy, as you might have me believe.  I didn't realize that they were the ones behind Sadat's assasination, until this AM.  That while Mubarak may have been an oppressive dictator, with horrible conditions in Egypt, is that perhaps better than an organization that has as its calling card references analogus to AlQeada's goals?  The Taliban?

And of course, that's not our call.  It's the people of Egypt, of Jordan, or any other country in the Middle East, to make that call.  That said, allowing things to play out, and potentially producing IranII, or a border country to Israel now bent on its destruction vs a longstanding peace agreement, something that's in the best interests of America's national security?

Sirs, history does not record the MB as being behind the Sadat assasination. It was Tanzim al-Jihad. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_Islamic_Jihad)

They might have been a splinter group, but they sure weren't officially MB.

And the MB denounced violence in Egypt in the 1970s.

I am worried about this focus on the MB to the point where I almost call it a smokescreen - there are many more groups waiting in the wings that I would personally be much more concerned about (in the region as a whole, not necessarily Egypt).

I would also say that what people seem to be overlooking is that there are so many opposition leaders in Egypt - some of them really GOOD - and the MB is really playing a marginal role in Egypt at the moment.

[Henny]

Henny...where are all the examples of Muslim/Arab huge success in the last couple of centuries?
Do we see great innovation coming from those countries?
Do we see multiple breakthrough life-changing medical and drug inventions?
When is Syria going to produce a Toyota Corportion or a Boeing?
Do some people never look in the mirrror & admit a huge part of their failures are their own fault?
Is it always "somebody else's fault"?.....Are they forever gonna blame a boogy-man?
As if had the US not supported Mubarak that Egypt would be creating Apple and Microsofts?
There are pissed off people everywhere....even where the US is not involved
There are people pissed in Russia....China.....life is hell...unless ya got somebody to always blame.

C4, let me get back to you on this. This is something I've been thinking about for a long time, and I have a lot to say on the subject, but I need to get my thoughts together on paper (or screen as it may be).

[Henny]

Yes, we have...via those direct links both I and Cu4 have provided.

Those were splinter groups. Not direct links.

You claimed as did the guest on your radio show that the Muslim Brotherhood killed Sadat.

You have not proven that.

It's kind of like with Fundie Christians. They all go to church together. Then one guy has a different interpretation of some piece of Biblical text and starts a splinter church in his garage because Chuch A didn't represent the faith the way he saw it.

As BT says here, that is no direct link. It means that there was a fundamental difference in the interpretation of laws/teachings and said splinter group seeks something - creates something - that represents what he really believes.

[Henny]

It's kind of like with Fundie Christians. They all go to church together. Then one guy has a different interpretation of some piece of Biblical text and starts a splinter church in his garage because Chuch A didn't represent the faith the way he saw it.

As BT says here, that is no direct link. It means that there was a fundamental difference in the interpretation of laws/teachings and said splinter group seeks something - creates something - that represents what he really believes.

And before someone says that Fundie Christians aren't killing people, I DO realize that. I didn't mean this rough example taken to that extreme!

[BT]

Henny

For all I know the MB could be the devil in disguise. But some "group" is very afraid of them and i sense a smear campaign is in the works where charges are hurled so frequently and so often, you don't have time to answer them all, and some false ones are bound to stick.

Reminds me of what happened after Katrina and Tucson. Blame blame blame.

And i just have a feeling people are being played.

[Plane]

     I think I am ready to denounce the guards of Abu Garab, their conduct reflects badly on all of their countrymen and I am glad that most of them went to prison.

      How does the Muslim brotherhood feel about the more draconian orgasations that justify extreme violence with Islam? Do they teach nonviolence ?

      What happened just now in Egypt is an excellent example of the idea that nonviolence can be powerfull, if the Muslim Brotherhood is responsible for that in some way it would look good on them.

[BT]

I think I am ready to denounce the guards of Abu Garab, their conduct reflects badly on all of their countrymen and I am glad that most of them went to prison.

Denounce away. My point was that you are under no obligation to denounce and your failure to do so should not reflect negatively on your character, nor speak volumes about you.

[Henny]

Henny

For all I know the MB could be the devil in disguise. But some "group" is very afraid of them and i sense a smear campaign is in the works where charges are hurled so frequently and so often, you don't have time to answer them all, and some false ones are bound to stick.

Reminds me of what happened after Katrina and Tucson. Blame blame blame.

And i just have a feeling people are being played.

That's how I feel too. And for all the renunciations of violence, the MB could morph yet again - no guarantees against that. But there are, right now, many worse groups out there that would gladly use this diversion to cause disruption and worse.

All I can think of as a reason for this fuss over the MB is that they would not be Israel's best friend. I DON'T think that they would renounce peace treaties. I believe that their leadership is intelligent enough to recognize that the losses of foreign aid and security of the people wouldn't be worth that. But I do anticipate that they would put pressure on Israel for concessions. They would also not automatically be complicit in whatever Israel wants the way Mubarak was. They would use their own concessions as a bargaining chip.

[Plane]

I think I am ready to denounce the guards of Abu Garab, their conduct reflects badly on all of their countrymen and I am glad that most of them went to prison.

Denounce away. My point was that you are under no obligation to denouncement and your failure to do so should not reflect negatively on your character, nor speak volumes about you.

It might be a good idea without being an obligation, if there was ambiguity working against me.

[Plane]

Henny

For all I know the MB could be the devil in disguise. But some "group" is very afraid of them and i sense a smear campaign is in the works where charges are hurled so frequently and so often, you don't have time to answer them all, and some false ones are bound to stick.

Reminds me of what happened after Katrina and Tucson. Blame blame blame.

And i just have a feeling people are being played.

That's how I feel too. And for all the renunciations of violence, the MB could morph yet again - no guarantees against that. But there are, right now, many worse groups out there that would gladly use this diversion to cause disruption and worse.

All I can think of as a reason for this fuss over the MB is that they would not be Israel's best friend. I DON'T think that they would renounce peace treaties. I believe that their leadership is intelligent enough to recognize that the losses of foreign aid and security of the people wouldn't be worth that. But I do anticipate that they would put pressure on Israel for concessions. They would also not automatically be complicit in whatever Israel wants the way Mubarak was. They would use their own concessions as a bargaining chip.

   Being "played " is embarrassing because it proves ignorance, what should we know ? where are the facts? For most of my life the Muslim Brotherhood got along fine while I knew nothing about them, can I remain ignorant safely now?

[BT]

Being "played " is embarrassing because it proves ignorance, what should we know ? where are the facts? For most of my life the Muslim Brotherhood got along fine while I knew nothing about them, can I remain ignorant safely now?

No, but it wouldn't hurt to do your own homework.

I remember back in 79-80 being on an extended business trip to Baton Rouge, in Sunday night home Friday night. Lot of room service meals. I had an Iranian room service guy one time and we ended up discussing the hostage crisis, and he pointed to the TV and said the inly thing you americans know is what you see on the box, pointing to the TV.

Now that i am older, i think i agree with him. We know what we are allowed to know, unloess we go out of our way to learn more. I'm just saying i want to learn more.

[Plane]

Are Google and Wiki just another Box to tell me an abbreiviated part of the story?

[BT]

Are Google and Wiki just another Box to tell me an abbreiviated part of the story?

Google and Wiki are far less centrally edited.