desperate housewives and Al Queda

[Michael Tee]

<<The primary purpose behind carrier task forces is to PROJECT POWER, so that is why we have so many of these.  . . .  Even if we withdraw from many overseas commitments, it is still an excellent to way to "show the flag".>>

I don't get it, Professor.  Are you saying that power is projected for the sake of projecting power?  That the flag is shown for the sake of showing the flag?  No ulterior reason beyond that?

[Plane]

<<The primary purpose behind carrier task forces is to PROJECT POWER, so that is why we have so many of these.  . . .  Even if we withdraw from many overseas commitments, it is still an excellent to way to "show the flag".>>

I don't get it, Professor.  Are you saying that power is projected for the sake of projecting power?  That the flag is shown for the sake of showing the flag?  No ulterior reason beyond that?

My ship had "show the flag" as a mission several times.

The primary point was to pull into port looking good and being friendly.

Secondarily it was good for recruitment and retention to have the sailors take liberty in nice places.

I highly reccomend Mombasa Kenya , not right now , after the civil unrest calms down ad they are back to their normal friendliness.

[Michael Tee]

<<Does Haliburton or Betchell hve more than 5% of their resorces in Iraq?

<<Has either one of them actually made a profit there?>>

All the better for them if the enormous profits they have been realizing required the deployment of only 5% of their resources.  I don't know about you, but if I could figure out a way to make a 23.35% positive change in my 52-week income by deploying only 5% of my resources, I'd fuckin jump at it.

But with all due respect, plane, you're barking up the wrong tree.  Landmark profits are clearly demonstrated for the two prime contractors of the invasion.  The only meaningful question you should be asking is, Is there any factor, OTHER than the invasion of Iraq, which could realistically account for the enormous profit increase over that particular time frame?

[Plane]

<<Does Haliburton or Betchell hve more than 5% of their resorces in Iraq?

<<Has either one of them actually made a profit there?>>

All the better for them if the enormous profits they have been realizing required the deployment of only 5% of their resources.  I don't know about you, but if I could figure out a way to make a 23.35% positive change in my 52-week income by deploying only 5% of my resources, I'd fuckin jump at it.

But with all due respect, plane, you're barking up the wrong tree.  Landmark profits are clearly demonstrated for the two prime contractors of the invasion.  The only meaningful question you should be asking is, Is there any factor, OTHER than the invasion of Iraq, which could realistically account for the enormous profit increase over that particular time frame?

Is there any factor, OTHER than the invasion of Iraq, which could realistically account for the enormous profit increase over that particular time frame?

Yes ,the good economy that the other 95% of their resorces are involved in.

I have seen her evidence that Halliburton has made a profit, not evidence that they made that profit in Iraq.

[Michael Tee]

<<I highly reccomend Mombasa Kenya , not right now , after the civil unrest calms down ad they are back to their normal friendliness.>>

How long was your ship in Mombasa and how much of that time was shore leave for you?  What was the longest continuous period of time that you were allowed to be away from the ship during shore leave?  Did you encounter any anti-Americanism in Mombasa?  Why was Mombasa so highly recommended, i.e., what did it have that the other ports did not?  And what other ports did you partcularly like?

In Alfred Hitchcock's Fireside Book of Suspense there's a short story set in the 1930s called The Idol.  An English tourist steps off a cruise ship in Mozambique to buy some souvenirs in the town, purchases an odd little idol, intervenes in a spat between an absolutely gorgeous local girl and some thugs, winds up getting chased by the thugs over the roof-tops , is rescued by the girl, fucks her brains out [reading between the lines,] in a temporary hide-out, kills some bad guys in hand-to-hand (the girl got one of them by throwing a knife into his back from across the room) and the next morning is recognized in the street, a little rougher for wear, with the adoring girl clinging to him like moss, by a party of English tourists who were combing the streets for him.  He shakes hands with the girl and thanks her, straightens his tie and returns to the ship with the other English tourists, with his little idol still wrapped up in brown paper.  Anything like that ever happen to you in Mombasa?

[_JS]

Does Haliburton or Betchell hve more than 5% of their resorces in Iraq?

Has either one of them actually made a profit there?


Ideology is indeed closer to the reason , our attitude  is what it was that made elections necessacery .

Have either of them made a profit in Iraq? Are you asking, seriously?

"Iraq has been good," was the quote made when Halliburton announced their highest quarterly earnings ever in October 2006 ($611 million). It coincided with what was then the bloodiest month for both American soldiers and Iraqi civilians.

Halliburton has made $20 billion in revenues from Iraq alone, which has comprised a great deal of their profits since 2003.

You think they are losing money on these contracts? You think Bechtel is over there spending more than they can recover? You clearly have a low opinion of their contract negotiators and their ability to fleece this war for all it is worth.

The answer to your questions is a that yes, both companies have done very well in Iraq. Bechtel pulled out in 2006. They'll be back.

[Plane]

<<I highly reccomend Mombasa Kenya , not right now , after the civil unrest calms down ad they are back to their normal friendliness.>>

How long was your ship in Mombasa and how much of that time was shore leave for you?  What was the longest continuous period of time that you were allowed to be away from the ship during shore leave?  Did you encounter any anti-Americanism in Mombasa?  Why was Mombasa so highly recommended, i.e., what did it have that the other ports did not?  And what other ports did you particularly like?

In Alfred Hitchcock's Fireside Book of Suspense there's a short story set in the 1930s called The Idol.  An English tourist steps off a cruise ship in Mozambique to buy some souvenirs in the town, purchases an odd little idol, intervenes in a spat between an absolutely gorgeous local girl and some thugs, winds up getting chased by the thugs over the roof-tops , is rescued by the girl, fucks her brains out [reading between the lines,] in a temporary hide-out, kills some bad guys in hand-to-hand and the next morning is recognized in the street, a little rougher for wear, with the adoring girl clinging to him like moss, by a party of English tourists who were combing the streets for him.  He shakes hands with the girl and thanks her, straightens his tie and goes right back to the ship with the other English tourists and his little idol still wrapped up in brown paper.  Anything like that ever happen to you in Mombasa?

I was in Mombasa for two weeks , I got drunk for the first time in my life on Tusker Beer , which is unpredictable in strength.I met British guy who worked in S.Africa and vacationed in Kenya , he wasn't Hitchcockesque, much, but told me how he missed his hometown here he would cheer for some team he called "Pompy" I still haven't figured out what sport he was referring to. Of course I didn't intend to get drunk and I haven't been since then. Lucky the "Pompy " fan could find my way for me  elese I mght still be there.

On another day I met a group of Indians who invited me in to their compound where I had some really bland food and talked with an American who was there on some mission that the HariChrishna had sent him on.

I met a local guy and discussed his hopes of working his way to the US , he had a good start , he as hired by the US to paint a few voids in our ship. I wish I had kept up with him , but I have lost correspondence with him in the shuffle .

A lot of my crewmates bought wood carvings, they traded for clothes and cassettes when they ran low on money , I didn't like the carvings and I was bemused as every locker and closet available was stacked with carvings like chordwood. I was much less bemused when we got back to Charleston and it turned out that those cheap carvings were very popular and no longer cheap at all.

Taking a tour of Tzavo park was very exhausting and exciting, our guide was so eager to please that when a lion was spotted in a little corpse of trees he got out of the van and threw sticks into he bush to flush her out , we wanted a picture of a lioness but not a picture of a lioness eating our driver so we asked him to quit that.

I never ran into any Anti-Americanism in Kenya ,  small amount in Djibouti but not serious  , even in Sudan I had no problem finding friendly faces. Much later tho I bought a book titled "A Primate's Memoir" and the author mentons one of the hotells I stayed in on Tzavo park contemporary to my being there, and he accused them of serving tainted meat. Perhaps hey didn't really love me?

Mombasa is one of the healthyest citys in Africa , with large supplys of clean water from nearby Mzima Springs. They are geared up to acomadate tourists and make good business of it . Djbouti is beautifull but harsh , Sudan is not always open and welcoming to Americans I was lucky to be there during a thawing period. I didn't visit much elese in Africa.

I would also reccomend Malaga Span ,Halifax Canada, San Juan Puerto Rico and rideing the railroad in Italy, I haven't traveled much since I left the Navy. But ifI get the chane to travel again these are the places I would like to return to.

I also had a good time in the southern Carribbian o an Island called Monserat , but it has since burned down.



  "http://www.amazon.com/Primates-Memoir-Neuroscientists-Unconventional-Baboons/dp/0743202414"

[Michael Tee]

So Bechtel's 25.7% rise in revenues and Halliburton's 23.5% rise in (I think it was stock prices) are allj just explained by the fact that the economy was very good over that time.  And how exactly is the "good economy" responsible for them outperforming the market ?  Apparently the "good economy" didn't benefit the others to the same extent that it did Halliburton and Bechtel.  And what a coincidence that BOTH Halliburton AND Bechtel, the principal contractors of the invasion, should be the ones outperforming the market. 

Ha, ha, ha, thanks for the "explanation," plane, but it just won't wash.  Think I'll stick with the original explanation after all - - the astonishing and market-beating performance of the two leading contractors of the invasion during the invasion period was in fact due to their profits on the invasion, NOT on the "good economy" which for some unknown reason and by some unknown mechanism would have singled out (according to your theory) both of these companies for extraordinary benefits far over the market average.

[Plane]

Does Haliburton or Betchell hve more than 5% of their resorces in Iraq?

Has either one of them actually made a profit there?


Ideology is indeed closer to the reason , our attitude  is what it was that made elections necessacery .

Have either of them made a profit in Iraq? Are you asking, seriously?

"Iraq has been good," was the quote made when Halliburton announced their highest quarterly earnings ever in October 2006 ($611 million). It coincided with what was then the bloodiest month for both American soldiers and Iraqi civilians.

Halliburton has made $20 billion in revenues from Iraq alone, which has comprised a great deal of their profits since 2003.

You think they are losing money on these contracts? You think Bechtel is over there spending more than they can recover? You clearly have a low opinion of their contract negotiators and their ability to fleece this war for all it is worth.

The answer to your questions is a that yes, both companies have done very well in Iraq. Bechtel pulled out in 2006. They'll be back.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1559574

I gotta admit I am surprised that there is indeed a profit being made. I was getting the wrong impression somehow.

I have been looking at it , I was wrong bout the 5% guess I made ,  it amounts to something like 15% of the company.

[Plane]

So Bechtel's 25.7% rise in revenues and Halliburton's 23.5% rise in (I think it was stock prices) are allj just explained by the fact that the economy was very good over that time.  And how exactly is the "good economy" responsible for them outperforming the market ?  Apparently the "good economy" didn't benefit the others to the same extent that it did Halliburton and Bechtel.  And what a coincidence that BOTH Halliburton AND Bechtel, the principal contractors of the invasion, should be the ones outperforming the market. 

Ha, ha, ha, thanks for the "explanation," plane, but it just won't wash.  Think I'll stick with the original explanation after all - - the astonishing and market-beating performance of the two leading contractors of the invasion during the invasion period was in fact due to their profits on the invasion, NOT on the "good economy" which for some unknown reason and by some unknown mechanism would have singled out (according to your theory) both of these companies for extraordinary benefits far over the market average.

Wern't there lots of companys doing just as well , but not involved in Iraq at all?

[Michael Tee]

Thanks, plane, that was really interesting.  I've always wanted to visit Mombasa but now I'd be scared to go there.

[Michael Tee]

<<Wern't there lots of companys doing just as well , but not involved in Iraq at all?>>

Sure, but if they were beating the market average, they couldn't explain it as "the good economy."  The AVERAGE companies were all beneficiaries of the good economy, the market-beaters had to have an explanation for why they were beating the average.

I'd never argue that it was impossible to do as well as Bechtel and Halliburton without being involved in Iraq, but it's a legitimate question to ask WHY they are (in a "good economy") beating the market average by so much, and if no other reason but Iraq presents itself, then the logical conclusion is that they made a shitload in Iraq.

In any event, JS has made this whole conversation sort of academic.  $20 billion is one heck of a lot of profits for anyone, and that is just one Iraq war contractor we are speaking of.  If anyone made $20 billion for any company you work for, your bosses would probably want to give the guy the Nobel Prize.  Somebody just made Halliburton $20 billion, and all it cost were the lives of 4,000 ignorant hillbillies, 150,000 ragheads and $500 billion U.S. dollars, none of it belonging to Halliburton.  Could any deal be sweeter?  And you wanna know if there's any profit to be made in this business?  Come on, get real.

[Plane]

<<Wern't there lots of companys doing just as well , but not involved in Iraq at all?>>

Sure, but if they were beating the market average, they couldn't explain it as "the good economy."  The AVERAGE companies were all beneficiaries of the good economy, the market-beaters had to have an explanation for why they were beating the average.

I'd never argue that it was impossible to do as well as Bechtel and Halliburton without being involved in Iraq, but it's a legitimate question to ask WHY they are (in a "good economy") beating the market average by so much, and if no other reason but Iraq presents itself, then the logical conclusion is that they made a shitload in Iraq.

In any event, JS has made this whole conversation sort of academic.  $20 billion is one heck of a lot of profits for anyone, and that is just one Iraq war contractor we are speaking of.  If anyone made $20 billion for any company you work for, your bosses would probably want to give the guy the Nobel Prize.  Somebody just made Halliburton $20 billion, and all it cost were the lives of 4,000 ignorant hillbillies, 150,000 ragheads and $500 billion U.S. dollars, none of it belonging to Halliburton.  Could any deal be sweeter?  And you wanna know if there's any profit to be made in this business?  Come on, get real.

It is a pleasant surprise to me.

I thought we were haveing too much troubble to expect profit.

[Amianthus]

the market-beaters had to have an explanation for why they were beating the average.

An average implies that some do better than average and some do worse. Beating the average just means that you were in the roughly 50% of the companies that beat the average.

[Michael Tee]

<<An average implies that some do better than average and some do worse. Beating the average just means that you were in the roughly 50% of the companies that beat the average.>>

Correct.  But beating the average by a wide margin (as was the case with Bechtel and Halliburton) indicates that you were in a much smaller cohort of above-average performers.  It's not around 50% any more and depending on the width of the margin, it could be the top 1% or 2%.