When politically correct and culturally diverse societies agree to 'the reasonable' Muslim demands for their 'religious rights,' they also get the other components under the table.
Plane wonders who is saying all Muslims are a threat. Well, there it is. ChristiansUnited4LessGvt and Dr. Peter Hammond are saying it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3_qelW5qp4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3_qelW5qp4)
Can you refute it?
Can you refute it?
Well, one glaring thing I see is the inclusion of Iraq. It was a secular nation. Does the author of the article mean to suggest it was a Muslim theocracy or are we to assume that large numbers of Muslims in and of itself is enough to prompt "State run ethnic cleansing and genocide"? The author also includes in his lists of countries Bosnia, where, as I recall the violent persecution was perpetrated against the Bosnian Muslim population. Is the author suggesting then that the Bosnia Muslims brought the massacres upon themselves by being Muslims and making up a large percentage of the population? Also, I'd say there has been plenty of history of massacres and persecution taking place without Muslims being around.
"Also, I'd say there has been plenty of history of massacres and persecution taking place without Muslims being around."Certainly true , is this the excuse for Islam to retain the characteristic?
Although Iraq's government under Saddam was secular , and the government now is secular , the people there then and now are the same persons.
It is the people that are being discussed , right? A government might be built according to scripture or not , but the government itself has no soul to have a religion with.
Bosnia was complex , but does include massacres as you describe them , the historical reason that the Muslims were present there was Turkish conquest , the hard feelings from which were still ready for use several generations later. The Turks made sure that only Muslims could hold government office so the Muslims were the urban eletes still ,from inherited advantage. I find this persistence of evil feelings dismaying.
QuoteAlso, I'd say there has been plenty of history of massacres and persecution taking place without Muslims being around.
Certainly true , is this the excuse for Islam to retain the characteristic?
Quote
Also, I'd say there has been plenty of history of massacres and persecution taking place without Muslims being around.
Certainly true , is this the excuse for Islam to retain the characteristic?
No. But then I'm not making excuses for anyone.
Neither are you denying that Islam has the characteristic?
| Above all, Wilders missed the opportunity to give Wahhabi sermonizers and sympathizers a real run for their oil money. He could have done so by cutting between their fevered warnings of hellfire on the one hand and, on the other, diverse Muslims reading 2:256 of the Quran: "There is no compulsion in religion." The resulting message is simple yet nuanced: If Saudi-inspired Muslims insist on literalism, then why not take literally the Quran's crystal-clear decree against compulsion? |
Neither are you denying that Islam has the characteristic?
I'm not denying some Muslims do these things. I'm also not denying that plenty of non-Muslims have done these things as well. And while I think it's kinda cute the way ChristiansUnited4LessGvt is supposedly ignoring my posts and yet responding indirectly anyway, I don't plan on jumping on the Muslims are always to blame bandwagon any time soon. For example, the video he posted talks about insurgents in Thailand, well, in addition to Muslims, drug dealers and the U.S. government and communists have all been accused of being behind the insurgent attacks. It's easy to make the Muslims out to be the bogyman behind every bad event, but I'm more interested in discovering the truth than slapping labels.
And by the way, when it comes to talking about Islam, have you noticed how almost no one seems interested in talking about, say, comments like this (http://debategate.com/new3dhs/index.php?topic=6182.0):No, we just talk about how they're all commanded to kill and hate and how they're supposedly out to take over the world. We're not going to talk about people like Nadia Mirad (http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0224/p10s01-woeu.html) who put up with religious discrimination without rioting or resorting to violence. No, we'll just talk about Muslim fifth columns and how Muslims never integrate into Western society, always living separately and always angrily hating the West because apparently their faith demands it. And so we can easily and proudly conclude, they are bad because they are not like us. So when there are insurgent attacks in Thailand or riots in France, why it must be because they're black... I mean, because they're Chinese... oops, I mean, because they're Muslims. I mean, why bother with facts when we "know" it's Muslims, right?
Above all, Wilders missed the opportunity to give Wahhabi sermonizers and sympathizers a real run for their oil money. He could have done so by cutting between their fevered warnings of hellfire on the one hand and, on the other, diverse Muslims reading 2:256 of the Quran: "There is no compulsion in religion." The resulting message is simple yet nuanced: If Saudi-inspired Muslims insist on literalism, then why not take literally the Quran's crystal-clear decree against compulsion?
The video fails to mention that Islam started in 622, and after nearly 1400 years has not come close to conquering the world. It is also a stagnant culture with regard to inventions and innovations. There is not one reason for unrest in the Muslim world, there are MANY reasons, and the war in Iraq, the colonization of Palestine by the Zionists, the overthrow of Mossadegh in 1952, and the fight to control Middle Eastern oil by US and British companies are just a few of these reasons.
There has not been any sort of global jihad going on since 622, as this thing suggests.
How about the theme that Islam is a complete system? It is rightious to them to take over.
Don't forget that there is a struggle within Islam
I don't know why you keep trying to inject other unknown groups into the French riots , the demographic fact is that most of the people availible to the riots are French Muslims the French Chineese are to few to deserve the bandwidth in this discussion.
How about the theme that Islam is a complete system? It is rightious to them to take over.
Them who?
Don't forget that there is a struggle within Islam
Why are you telling me not to forget?
I don't know why you keep trying to inject other unknown groups into the French riots , the demographic fact is that most of the people availible to the riots are French Muslims the French Chineese are to few to deserve the bandwidth in this discussion.
I don't recall mentioning the French Chinese. I believe in relation to the French youth riots, I mentioned some other faiths. The mention of the Chinese in my previous post was an allusion to the Yellow Peril. And I was being sarcastic. I thought that much was obvious, but apparently such was not the case.
"There has not been any sort of global jihad going on since 622, as this thing suggests.Yes there has.
How about the theme that Islam is a complete system? It is rightious to them to take over.
It is a delusion that the Caliphate was ever even half as unified as, say, the Roman Empire.
The video fails to mention that Islam started in 622, and after nearly 1400 years has not come close to conquering the world. It is also a stagnant culture with regard to inventions and innovations. There is not one reason for unrest in the Muslim world, there are MANY reasons, and the war in Iraq, the colonization of Palestine by the Zionists, the overthrow of Mossadegh in 1952, and the fight to control Middle Eastern oil by US and British companies are just a few of these reasons.
There has not been any sort of global jihad going on since 622, as this thing suggests.
How many Empires ever got bigger than the Caphilate?
What was the event that made them give up on the idea?
"So your solution is what?"
Before I answer I would like to also ask you the same question?
JS what is your solution? And please dont say "send them Barbie dolls".
But to your question.
I dont pretend to have the "magic potion" end all solution
It's far more complicated than that.
I do think recognizing the threat is a beginning
Then I suppose this is a start:
(although I dont agree with it 100%...it's a start)
Islam: What Can be Done?
What can we do about Islam and the threat that it poses to Western values?
Our least favorite question is, unfortunately, one that we see quite a bit. Readers who understand Islamic history and teaching, and thus realize the danger that is posed to our future naturally want to know what can be done to prevent this from happening.
Our conclusions are that educating oneself, educating others, and speaking truthfully about "the Religion of Peace" is the best start. Islam is it's own worst enemy in that the more that is known about it, the less attractive it becomes... to everyone.
Islam spreads like a virus. It radiates from Muslim countries that are too diseased to support it and into healthy systems that are that way because they have had the luxury of developing apart from Islam. Once in the host system, the Islam virus uses the existing machinery to make replicas of itself. Over time, the host makes unilateral concessions to the religion, feeding and appeasing it in the vain hope that it can be pacified.
Vital organs are co-opted and eventually shut down as Islam advances. In a matter of time, the entire system groans to an agonizing death and assumes the condition of the diseased nations from which Muslims originally fled. The virus then looks for new hosts to cannibalize.
Some Westerners, particularly those with children (and an investment in the future), are far-sighted enough to see where current trends eventually lead. Though many Muslims are decent people, the religion itself always has a way of bringing the radicals along with it. The radicals then infest and influence the mainstream, and the rest of society pays the cost.
A question that we often hear is, "What can we do about it"?
First, let's go over what shouldn't be done about it.
1) Do NOT hurt Muslims. Westerners generally don't have a problem with this anyway, and have shown remarkable restraint in the wake of horrendous terror attacks. Bottom line: You don't know any terrorists. The Muslims that you know in your private life are not terrorists. Don't harm them or protect anyone who does.
2) Do NOT harass Muslims. The Muslims that you know personally are probably not much different than you are. They have the same concerns for their children?s future and the same interests in getting ahead in life. They do not deserve to be harassed on account of a religion that they probably either don't understand all that well or may not even believe too sincerely anyway.
3) Do NOT vandalize the property of Muslims. (Same reasons. Grow up.)
4) Do NOT desecrate the Qur'an (such as using a piece of bacon as a bookmark). It doesn't accomplish anything other than to give radicals another reason to play the victim, get angry and, perhaps, hurt someone. It?s also juvenile and offensive. Treat the Qur'an the way that you would prefer Muslims treat whatever book that you consider sacred.
If you want to confront Islam, then you must be truthful and objective, rather than rude and slanderous. Don't exaggerate or use absolutes. Don't pretend that all Muslims are bad people, or that everything about Islam is bad.
The key to stopping Islam is education, because the more that is known about this 7th century religion, then the less appeal it has in today's world. Muslim defenders know this, which is why they hide behind censorship and book banning in the Islamic world and desperate but comical appeals to political correctness and multiculturalism in the West. Muslim organizations, such as CAIR, often use outright falsehood to deceive others.
Non-Muslim Westerners should understand that there is no reason to place Islam above criticism, or Muslims above offense merely on that basis. In fact, there is every reason not to do this. Islamic law poses a threat to nearly every liberal value that the West holds dear.
Learn as much as you can about why Islam is dangerous. Understand its history. Learn how thousands of people can do brutal things each year explicitly in the name of Islam and Allah, while a billion others never seem to be terribly bothered about it.
In short, educate yourself. Then you can educate others. And they can educate others as well.
Write to political leaders. Inform them. Make them accountable for each compromised standard and every freedom lost in the name of appeasement to Islam. Expose the lies and double-standards. Denounce the hypocrisy of Muslim nations.
Speak truthfully. Speak tactfully.
If Islam wins, then civilization loses. But at least we will have gone down swinging
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/WhatToDo.htm (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/WhatToDo.htm)
Learn as much as you can about why Islam is dangerous.
Why does it matter that they were not unified?
What they did to Spain was not as nasty as what they did to India , but I don't want to see more of either.
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Spanish were Christians: fellow believers in one God, so they believe at least half of what Muslims believe, to wit "There is no God but Allah, and Mohammad is his prophet". They were to be invited to become Muslims, but were permitted to continue being Christians as were Jews.
Indians were polytheists, and Muhammad sad they should be eliminated or converted.
The Caliphate was a united empire mostly in name alone.
When Spain was conquered in 711-714 the conquering Muslim general (Taric el tuerto, or Tarik the one-eyed, aka Tariq ibn Ziyad, an Algerian Berber was first named governor of Hispania (Al Andalus) but later was ordered back to Damascus by Umayyad Caliph Al-Walid I and was never heard from again.
His name lives on in the name Gibraltar: Jebel-Al-Tarik, formerly known as the Pillars of Hercules. It was on his invasion route from Morocco northward.
Future governors thought twice before returning to the capital. This was after the original Caliphate had already split into several pieces.
I did answer your question, because you dont like the answer does not equate to I didnt answer it.
Isn't it startling to you that someone has made up rules that involve telling people to not harm there Muslim neighbors?!?
No I don't find that startling at all.
Okay, so this is all true. Muslims are supposed to murder non-Muslims, because that is what the Koran tells them to do.
What is your solution?
Rewrite the Koran?
Get all Muslims to swear to ignore this passage?
Nuke then all in a massive pre-emptive strike of over 100 million people?
What do you propose? How are you going to do this with less government? Will Jesus help you?
re: What is your solution?
I don't have the solution.
The umma is the community of Islam. It is what we Christians would call "the Body of Christ." It is not something to be feared nor attack Muslims over. In more practical terms it was very important for Muslims in the early days to be close communities that followed their religion closely. This was true of early Christian communities as well as Jewish communities.
................
The Caliphate has not existed for centuries and even when it did exist it was beset with family in-fighting and was hardly considered an authority in much of the Islamic community.
It is true that the history of the Islamic world is a mixed bag, but the history of the Christian world is as well.
The solutions for pulling angry young Muslims away from terrorism do not lie in attacking their faith, but improving their lot in life.
>>The problem with this entire discussion is that it hinges on the ignorant and the fear of the unknown. Some of the arguments used to attack Islam are drawn from well over a twelve centuries ago. Other arguments come from poor understanding of both history and religion.<<
Nonsense. The Quran is clear, as are the words coming out of the mouths of the radicals. The problem is people who refuse to admit the threat for political reasons. Like you.
Let's see ... implementation of socialism by allowing Islam to destroy the world market?
Is the world market so frail that a religion will suffice in destroying it?