Author Topic: Let the arms race begin.  (Read 3399 times)

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Plane

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Let the arms race begin.
« on: July 15, 2015, 08:05:25 PM »
http://news.yahoo.com/iran-deal-obama-sees-validation-diplomatic-gamble-164420085.html

According to the president this deal is better than war with them , better than an arms race in the region.

Lets observe , does this treaty have features that really do more to prevent war and inhibit a regional arms race than continued or increased sanctions and embargo?

sirs

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Re: Let the arms race begin.
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2015, 08:22:34 PM »
Right, because flooding Iran with Money & ability to procure weapons, that they aren't already developing themselves, is the perfect recipe to "peace"       :o
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Let the arms race begin.
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2015, 08:34:47 PM »
There is no alternative to negotiations than war.

We are not going to fight a war with Iran.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: Let the arms race begin.
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2015, 08:37:14 PM »
SANCTIONS........AND THEY WERE WORKING.  All this "deal" accomplished was to give Iran a flood of money and weapon aquistions, to better launch a war on their terms & timetable
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: Let the arms race begin.
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2015, 08:50:23 PM »
  Chamberlain made this mistake .

    A treaty does not bind a belligerent to much .

    Molotov also made this mistake.

  If this treaty has a feature that makes the potential of war less I would like to discuss that feature.

     But if the Iranians want war then the war is best postponed with measures that make them weak and sap their confidence, if they are determined to make war , and a peace treaty makes them stronger and bolder the war might be all the sooner and all the worse for the treaty.

sirs

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Re: Let the arms race begin.
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2015, 09:29:19 PM »
  Chamberlain made this mistake .

    A treaty does not bind a belligerent to much .

    Molotov also made this mistake.

  If this treaty has a feature that makes the potential of war less I would like to discuss that feature.

Barak Chamberlain

We awoke Tuesday morning to learn that history had indeed repeated itself. The lessons of Neville Chamberlain’s failed diplomatic effort were not studied nor learned by President Barack Obama and Secretary of State John Kerry. The claims of “peace in our time” are empty if dependent upon the goodwill of despots, dictators, theocrats, and autocrats – of which the Iranian regime can be classified.

There are those who seek to compare this agreement to President Reagan’s with the Soviet Union. There is a major difference. The Soviet Union was not a theocracy run by clerics who embrace the necessity of an apocalyptic event spurring the return of the 12th Imam, the Mahdi. With the Soviet Union there was always a standing MAD theory – mutually assured destruction. That is not a viable consideration with Iran. Reagan also believed in the mantra “trust but verify.” How can we ever trust the Iranian regime, which has been at war with America since 1979 and has not changed its belligerent behavior since?

President Jimmy Carter gave us the Ayatollahs, President Obama just solidified their power.

Amazingly enough, it was during the Carter administration that Americans were taken hostage, and history again repeats itself as four Americans are held today by Iran – Amir Hekmati, Saeed Abedini, Jason Rezaian, and Robert Levinson. President Obama announced the signing of an agreement with a regime that chants “Death to America.” What more disqualifying evidence does one need? Not to mention the plethora of human rights violations of which Iran is guilty.

Economic sanctions are lifted which means the world’s lead sponsor of Islamic terrorism will receive billions of dollars. And, in the case of violations, the restoration of sanctions requires a committee to “snapback” these sanctions – a committee of which Iran is a participant. The agreement only delays uranium enrichment for ten years, and Iran has seen a 20% increase of enriched uranium during these negotiations. For fifteen years, there are to be no new nuclear reactors.

Therefore, in the short term, Iran will be able to heighten its support of terrorism. In the long term they will reach a threatening nuclear capability.

The agreement states that Iran must continue to live under the UN weapons embargo for another five years for conventional arms and eight years for missiles. Funny, that embargo has not stopped Iran from supplying the deadly EFP (explosive force penetrators) to Islamic jihadists responsible for the deaths and maiming of thousands of U.S. troops. As well, this embargo does not preclude Iran from supporting Hezbollah, Hamas, and the Houthis with weapons.

What should we have done or should we do?

- First, realize that Iran is our enemy, one that is holding Americans hostages and demand their release.
- Second, economic sanctions should be increased. The world failed to isolate and prevent the economic restoration of Germany in the 1930s and witnessed a full bore investment into one of the greatest war machines the world would come to know. We should implement a naval blockade against Iran and shrink the ability of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards’ naval forces from adversely influencing the sea lanes of commerce in the Persian Gulf.
- We should be enabling a deterioration of the stranglehold of the crazed clerics that control the Iranian people.

Some will decry fear mongering and castigate anyone opposing this agreement as seeking war. Such were the claims against Sir Winston Churchill, who warned that history has a way of punishing those who pay it no attention.

And history certainly remembers Churchill in a far more esteemed status than Chamberlain.
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Let the arms race begin.
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2015, 01:38:25 PM »
Iran is clearly not Nazi Germany.
Iran is not demanding territory of any other country.
 Blathering constantly about Chamberlain is really, really stupid. People who parrot this deserve to be slapped upside the head with a large mackerel.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: Let the arms race begin.
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2015, 05:34:46 PM »
So, the lesson here is to ignore history, and allow Iran to become the next Fascist Germany?? (or in this case, Islamofacist Iran)  Sorry too many lives were lost, when not exterminated in mass, to follow that path again.  Oh wait, Neville Obama skipped History.....as well as when it came to educating the class on the Constitution.  His legacy, preserved. 

As Plane pointed out, hopefully that piece of paper that was signed by Iran, had some tangible value to it.  Perhaps some goldleaf along the edges?   
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Let the arms race begin.
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2015, 07:20:04 PM »
We could easily bring Iran to it's knees with a Bill Clinton no-invasion type Kosevo War.
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

sirs

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Re: Let the arms race begin.
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2015, 07:43:16 PM »
I go sanctions 1st.....then more sanctions.   I'd hold the military air for more isis-centric activities,  until Iran flagrantly defies any arrangements
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: Let the arms race begin.
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2015, 09:09:30 PM »
We could easily bring Iran to it's knees with a Bill Clinton no-invasion type Kosevo War.
This might be the point of developing atomic weapons.

hnumpah

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Re: Let the arms race begin.
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2015, 09:12:17 PM »
SANCTIONS........AND THEY WERE WORKING.

Flashback to 2002. Deja vu. Repeat as necessary, lol.
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Plane

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Re: Let the arms race begin.
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2015, 09:17:29 PM »
Iran is not demanding territory of any other country.
 

  Not that you would notice, but in Lebanon , Syria and Iraq there are a lot of people who know .

  Hezbollah is their catspaw, they have been taking over Lebanon for years, the government of Syria is their sept and Iraq's Shia parties have been getting Iranian aid and arms since Saddam was fighting them. 

sirs

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Re: Let the arms race begin.
« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2015, 09:33:28 PM »
SANCTIONS........AND THEY WERE WORKING.

Flashback to 2002. Deja vu. Repeat as necessary, lol.

You're gonna have to clarify a better, I'm afraid H
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Let the arms race begin.
« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2015, 10:45:22 PM »
Flashback to 2002. Deja vu. Repeat as necessary, lol.

Actually I agree.

Probably for 100% different reasons from hnumpah.

I now believe we should have never invaded Iraq.

President Bush should have recognized the "5th Column" a.k.a the Left
and the mainstream media were never going to allow Iraq to be a success.

President Bush should have known the Left and their cohorts in the media
were going to sensationalize every minor poor result and sabotage the entire
post-combat operation every chance they got. The Left was also not going to
allow the US Military to do what it would have had to do to stabilize and bring security to Iraq.

Even US Civil War General William Tecumseh Sherman in his "march to the sea"
that many think was the deciding factor in ending the Civil War had to keep his
plans secret from the press, the public, and even high gvt officals because of
the ruthlessness that needed to be carried out to finish off an enemy.

Yes as painful as it is...we and the Iraqi people would be better off
today if Saddam was still in power....we shouldn't have been there
knowing we were not going to be allowed to finish the job.
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987