DebateGate

General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: Universe Prince on June 11, 2010, 11:21:00 PM

Title: Anti-drug war message I guess conservatives won't like
Post by: Universe Prince on June 11, 2010, 11:21:00 PM
Sting, Soros, Montel and More: We are the Drug Policy Alliance.mp4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0A1XTlJAio#ws)

http://reason.com/blog/2010/06/11/sting-cant-be-right-about-the (http://reason.com/blog/2010/06/11/sting-cant-be-right-about-the)
         A rainforest-saving rock star condemning drug prohibition and endorsing an organization funded by leftish billionaire George Soros was an irresistible target for Bill O'Reilly. Last night the professionally indignant populist, whose passionate support for the war on drugs has not driven him to learn much of anything about it, mocked Sting with assistance from Fox News anchor Megyn Kelly. O'Reilly, who apparently has not read John Stuart Mill, began by using his favorite drug-related factoid to rebut Sting's support for individual autonomy:

      O'Reilly: You know what galls me about this? Sting [affecting an effete British accent]: "We have sovereignty over our own bodies." Seventy percent of child abuse and neglect in this country is substance abuse driven, most of it narcotics.

Kelly: Exactly right. They actually say it could be even higher than that. It could be as much as 80 percent.

O'Reilly: You know, what do you have to say about that, Sting? How about the rain forest, putting that aside and looking at child abuse once in a while? Ooh.		      

Far be it from me to contradict what "they" say, but O'Reilly and Kelly seem to have pulled these numbers out of their asses. According to Childabuse.com, "Among confirmed cases of child maltreatment, 40% involve the use of alcohol or other drugs." According to Childhelp USA, "Nearly one-half of substantiated cases of child neglect and abuse are associated with parental alcohol or drug abuse." According to the Child Welfare Information Gateway, "Substance abuse may be a contributing factor for between one-third and two-thirds of maltreated children in the child welfare system." Furthermore, these estimates refer to "substance abuse" generally, the vast majority of it involving alcohol, not "narcotics." Finally, the causal interpretation of these associations remains controversial, so O'Reilly's assumption that more drug use means more child abuse is unsubstantiated.

More fun with fake numbers:

      O'Reilly: The reason we have a war on drugs is to protect people from people who get intoxicated and do terrible, terrible things. We have alcohol, that's legal. You don’t compound the problem.

Kelly: But cocaine is not the same thing as alcohol. [You have a] 75 percent addiction rate on people who try cocaine and 10 percent on alcohol.		      

A 1994 study (PDF), based on data from the National Comorbidity Survey, estimated that 17 percent of cocaine users qualify for a diagnosis of "substance dependence" at some point in their lives, suggesting that Kelly is off by a factor of more than four. The same data indicate a lifetime addiction rate of 15 percent for alcohol. Data from the National Survey on Drug Use and Health also indicate that addiction rates for alcohol and cocaine are similar.		         
Title: Re: Anti-drug war message I guess conservatives won't like
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on June 11, 2010, 11:54:55 PM
The reason to oppose the War on Drugs is that it does not work. Drugs are not a criminal matter, they are a medical and social matter.
Title: Re: Anti-drug war message I guess conservatives won't like
Post by: BT on June 12, 2010, 01:51:05 AM
Didn't hate it.

Pretty much ambivalent about the ad.

Title: Re: Anti-drug war message I guess conservatives won't like
Post by: kimba1 on June 12, 2010, 02:40:08 AM
actually I`ve seen some of the side-effects of our anti-drug culture. twice I`ve seen somebody with major surgury getting thier medications with-held by family members. out of fear of addiction.
one had to to be rehosptalized for such care. alot of people still don`t think pain can be harmful for recovery. come to think of it I remember having pneumonia and never having anything more than tylenol.
the fear of addiction was great in those days. I had to admit I would of prefered  to never take any treatment and just let it do me in. pain can do that to you if last more than 2 weeks.
Title: Re: Anti-drug war message I guess conservatives won't like
Post by: sirs on June 12, 2010, 03:31:31 AM
Why are conservatives not going to like it, again?
Title: Re: Anti-drug war message I guess conservatives won't like
Post by: Kramer on June 12, 2010, 12:33:06 PM
Tony Papa

sounds like a Pizza Place
Title: Re: Anti-drug war message I guess conservatives won't like
Post by: Christians4LessGvt on June 12, 2010, 07:33:06 PM
Quote from: sirs on June 12, 2010, 03:31:31 AM
Why are conservatives not going to like it, again?

Yeah really SIRS. I am pretty much ok with drug legalization across the board.
My only hesitation would be if there is a drug that if you try it once you are totally hooked/addicted.
I am not even sure that exists...but someone told me crack, heroin, meth, & something called "cheese" might be that way.
But weed should be legalized and taxed now!
Title: Re: Anti-drug war message I guess conservatives won't like
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on June 12, 2010, 10:45:26 PM
Why are conservatives not going to like it, again?
=======================================
Ask one. Ask several. I do not think that the typical Republican conservatives are in any way willing to legalize or decriminalize even pot. Ask Orrin Hatch, Jim DeMint, any of those guys.
Title: Re: Anti-drug war message I guess conservatives won't like
Post by: Christians4LessGvt on June 12, 2010, 10:59:50 PM
Quote from: Xavier_Onassis on June 12, 2010, 10:45:26 PM
Ask Orrin Hatch, Jim DeMint, any of those guys.

Ask Barack Hussein Obama, ask Joe Biden, ask Hillary Clinton, ask Al Gore.
Title: Re: Anti-drug war message I guess conservatives won't like
Post by: sirs on June 12, 2010, 11:31:31 PM
And they are by no means, conservative, in any way, shape, or form
Title: Re: Anti-drug war message I guess conservatives won't like
Post by: Universe Prince on June 13, 2010, 01:48:42 PM
Quote from: sirs on June 12, 2010, 03:31:31 AM

Why are conservatives not going to like it, again?


I dunno. Ask Bill O'Reilly. I guess because the ad had George Soros in it, and also Sting, who, as Megyn Kelly pointed out, isn't even an American. Plus, you know, drugs are bad. Megyn said so.
Title: Re: Anti-drug war message I guess conservatives won't like
Post by: sirs on June 13, 2010, 04:56:45 PM
Bill O'Reilly is not a conservative, at least not in conservative circles I'm aware of.  He leans right on many fiscal issues, but is far more moderate, and supportive of various Government intervention, and regulations, than mainstream conservatives would support.

So, why are conservatives not going to like this again?
Title: Re: Anti-drug war message I guess conservatives won't like
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on June 14, 2010, 06:13:08 PM
I would imagine that Orrin hatch would not like it, because the LDS Church would be against it. Observe that neither Utah nor Idaho has decriminalized marijuana, even for medical purposes. In other states, the churches oppose legalization. The cops oppose it, sometimes perhaps because they don't want to eliminate police jobs, sometimes because they believe that potheads are more likely to be criminals, which is a self-fulfilling prophesy. There are a LOT of people against decriminalization,and many are self-identified conservatives. You do not see any signs for legalization at Tea Party rallies, either.

I am sure that there are many who have different [positions, but they are in the minority.
Title: Re: Anti-drug war message I guess conservatives won't like
Post by: kimba1 on June 14, 2010, 06:21:50 PM
I think it`s a trust issue

can people trust a pot user to not drive a car while using,remember alot of pot users thing it`s 100% completely safe to drive while under.

somehow treating like alchohol is not acceptable.

Title: Re: Anti-drug war message I guess conservatives won't like
Post by: sirs on June 14, 2010, 06:23:35 PM
Quote from: Xavier_Onassis on June 14, 2010, 06:13:08 PM
There are a LOT of people against decriminalization,and many are self-identified conservatives. You do not see any signs for legalization at Tea Party rallies, either.

Nor do I see any such signs at DNC meetings.  And...........?

Title: Re: Anti-drug war message I guess conservatives won't like
Post by: Xavier_Onassis on June 15, 2010, 10:16:11 AM
I would imagine that carrying a "legalize marijuana" sign would provke the interest of the police, as well as opposing political factions. The Tea party is an amorphous bunch of people, many of whom only share a dislike of everything connected with the government (except any checks they may be receiving). I do not think that the Democrats or the Republicans would call the cops to investigate a TP'er carrying such a sign, whereas some clown like Tom DeLay would surely do the same should such a sign appear at a DNC meeting. The GOP and the Democrats have a reputation to uphold. The Tea Party has no such reputation, and it is disorganized.

If a large majority of the people favored decriminalization of pot, it would have happened already. I believe that more on the right oppose it than on the left. but there are some on both sides, and the religious factions are at the core of this opposition.
Title: Re: Anti-drug war message I guess conservatives won't like
Post by: sirs on June 15, 2010, 10:36:08 AM
You can believe all you want, like Elvis is alive, or that Tea Parties = hate everything Government.  Point being that many from all ideologies apparently are not supportive of leagalizing pot, so trying to paint this as something largely "conservatives won't like", is disingenuous at minimum