Haditha is on Frountline

[Cynthia]

I didn't say that we don't LIVE for a good reason. I think we decide what our purpose is by ourselves.
I said we DIE for no good reason, other than because we have been designed as mortal.

So, did the Waffen SS die in vain, defending the Third Reich from Slavic and Jewish domination, and creating leibensraum for their fellow Germans?

Ok...refocusing here.....

we die for for no good reason?
I say we die to live with Jesus..but THAT'S my belief..."another thread" someday.

But, to say that any soldier be he/she German Nazi,  SS,  French Bosnian or Iraqi...NEVER DIES IN VAIN.
The reason I feel that way is explained in my previous post. Soldiers are soldiers. I must clarify the definition and make known the distinction between soldier's death and platform of cry. SO, yes, I think that the SS did not die in vain. Human beings do not die in vain. Period. That's my stand.....except for the criminal element ...those who intend to kill for the purpose of greed and self centered hate. Come on, you know the difference....Jesse James, Hitler...died in vain...their life was lived in vain. The men who fight for any cause do not die in vain. XO. that's all I am saying here. ....Ok. you want to know who dies in vain....The day Charlie Manson dies he will have fulfiled his death as a life without purpose..but again Jesus is the one who will judge his soul.

Xavier, "cause" and the plight and fight for a "cause" donates and provides a get out of jail free card.....dying without shame or in vain.

Jesse James died in vain. He died commiting crimes because he was selfish and uncivilized. You might say that the soldier of today is just another Jesse James...but I disagree.

[Rich]

>>Ok...refocusing here.....<<

I think at this point, that's impossible. Well, for some people. The reasons for the war were spelled out specifically prior to action being taken. The leftist anti-Bush/anti-Americans are never going to come to grips with the truth on the subject. They simple refuse to do so. Even if they realize the truth, they continue to lie about it for political gain. So we hear the same ole same ole, and for some people, if you repeat it enough, it becomes the truth. That's just the way it is.

As for dying in vain, I doubt if you could ask Cindy Shemales son how he felt about that, I'd bet he would feel proud of his service and would not believe he died in vain. Saying those kinds of things is just a way for leftists to lie, once again, about the war, and the people fighting it. Really, do you think these leftists really have a clue as to what these soldiers think or what this war is really about? The answer is no. If they gave a damn they'd be happy we're winning. We're the good guys. Well, not to them, and that's the point.

Claiming our brave men and women are dying in vain to protect our freedom is just another insult in the long line of insults leftists direct at our soldiers and our country.

[Cynthia]

Claiming our brave men and women are dying in vain to protect our freedom is just another insult in the long line of insults leftists direct at our soldiers and our country.

...
No, they are simply dying .... but not in vain.....instead in hopes ...hopes to protect our freedoms. The liberals think that is a naive stance to take, but I see it as civil and worthy of honor

..Ok...so,even though we might be losing this war on terrorism (at this point in time), Rich, I do agree that it IS an insult to our soldiers and our country to put them in the grave with a pissy attitude. Shame on the American who does that. . Sorry XO , but I believe that is a shame....my opinion..

. I don't want to be put in a Republican box for that....just a secure nurturing common sense Tiffany blue, thank you very much.

Humanity and self respect for those who step up to the plate, hit a couple of strike outs and then die.

Damn, how can any American not appreciate their efforts?

If they are all leftists, or simply simple minded anti Americans....no mind....it's wrong to consider any person's death in combat as in vain.
My lord.

[fatman]

I think at this point, that's impossible.

You hope, you mean.

Well, for some people.

Like yourself?

The reasons for the war were spelled out specifically prior to action being taken.

I've never had an issue with that.

The leftist anti-Bush/anti-Americans are never going to come to grips with the truth on the subject.

Have you been talking to your psychic again?

They simple refuse to do so.

Think that might have anything to do with the incompetence of the Bush Administration in particular and the Federal Govt in general?

Even if they realize the truth, they continue to lie about it for political gain

And I'm glad to see by that inference that the conservatives are so squeaky clean.  They've never lied about anything have they?  Pssssssst.  Larry Craig?

So we hear the same ole same ole, and for some people, if you repeat it enough, it becomes the truth
Ahhh, so now we know why you post that stuff about Shari'a law every day or every other day.

That's just the way it is.

Well, that's your perception.  Here's mine:  after going into Iraq the Bush Administration exhibited sufficient incompetence to turn the majority of Americans against the war.  Add to that wireless wiretapping, secret courts that aren't even being used, and scandals of abuse and torture and the people get fed up.  They're loathe to throw good money after bad.  They hold the same to lives.  Sooner or later the Iraqi's are going to have to stand on their own, we can't afford to hold their hands forever.

As for dying in vain, I doubt if you could ask Cindy Shemales son how he felt about that,

Great, you've managed to insult hermaphrodites and Cindy Sheehan in the same sentence.  Can you post without insulting someone that you disagree with, or is that your basic debate technique?

I'd bet he would feel proud of his service and would not believe he died in vain

How would you know?  Been talking to your psychic again?  The guy is dead, gone, kaput.  The hypothetical you pose is moot.

Saying those kinds of things is just a way for leftists to lie, once again, about the war,

OOOOH, those wascally weftists!!  Why can't they be just like us wighties?

and the people fighting it.

There's enough lying, misinformation, and spin as far as our military members go, being done on both sides of the political aisle.  Claiming that one side is doing it more is irrelevant when both sides engage in it.

Really, do you think these leftists really have a clue as to what these soldiers think or what this war is really about?

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Antiwar_veterans_group_War_crimes_are_0121.html
http://www.bigcynic.com/2008/01/iraq-veterans-t.html
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/06/29/2194/
http://www.presstelegram.com/news/ci_7400588
http://ivaw.org/index.php

There's five.  I'd guess that soldiers are like any other American, in that they're not united in their ideologies and goals.  To claim that one group of soldiers speaks for another is absurd.

The answer is no.

Do you always talk to yourself like this?  Perhaps you should seek some medical attention.

If they gave a damn they'd be happy we're winning. We're the good guys

Perhaps they give a damn about things other than winning and losing.  This isn't a monopoly game.  As to us being the good guys, some think we're good and some don't.  It's that pesky problem with free will again.

Well, not to them, and that's the point.

There's a point to this banality?

Claiming our brave men and women are dying in vain to protect our freedom

Some people see it as protecting our freedom.  Some don't.  Don't pretend that people have never died in vain in war, the sloganeering doesn't cut it.

is just another insult in the long line of insults leftists direct at our soldiers and our country.

Well, some of those leftists ARE soldiers.  Does that mean that they're self-loathing?  And all American leftists are Americans, perhaps you've lost sight of that in the whole "rights = saints left = evil" scenario.  I know that it's difficult to grasp this, but perhaps the left wants the same thing as the right (peace, freedom, prosperity), only they want to try and achieve it by different means.  That's what our system was built for, not for lining up people into neat little boxes and labels.

On a side note.  I'm tired of this.  You can't seem to debate, only insult, slur, belittle and demean anyone who disagrees with you.  You do this in the place of actually presenting evidence to your point of view, with the exception of some hack piece written in a conservative journal.  You're not able (by the evidence that I've seen anyway) to formulate your own thoughts, you only parrot the latest thing you've read and then proceed to lambast anyone who disagrees with you.  That's not debate, it's recess in second grade.  And it's getting old.

[Cynthia]

Now Now, Hp....I think that if one reads between the lines, Rich is expressing his own thoughts. I wonder why we jump on people for being left of right.....why can't one just debate and move on.
Rich is rich with pissiness, this is true, but I haven't read anytihng in this thread that spells out such as you have accused. Perhaps I am wrong, but he does believe in something in his heart. ....just as we all. I may have to re read his post..but I thought it was just "Richpo's way" of finding that strategy to debate.

I might be wrong.
I'll have to re read both your posts.

[fatman]

Now Now, Hp....I think that if one reads between the lines, Rich is expressing his own thoughts. I wonder why we jump on people for being left of right.....why can't one just debate and move on.
Rich is rich with pissiness, this is true, but I haven't read anytihng in this thread that spells out such as you have accused. Perhaps I am wrong, but he does believe in something in his heart. ....just as we all. I may have to re read his post..but I thought it was just "Richpo's way" of finding that strategy to debate.

I might be wrong.
I'll have to re read both your posts.

Well, I don't know who Hp is    But speaking for me Cynthia, I'm just tired of seeing it.  There are people on the right and left who manage to articulate their views with respect to disagreeing viewpoints, and I respect them for that.  The problem that I have with Rich is this: everything is absolute.  No ifs, ands, or buts.  No room for an opposing viewpoint.  No effort to try and see that viewpoint.  Everything is black and white, cut and dried.

Things don't work that way in the real world, most things are grey.  Even the red and blue states, when taken as a whole, are more purple than anything.  I had a good and respectful debate with Rich awhile back about gay marriage.  I like debates like that.  I don't like debates where people are derided and given malicious nicknames.  It's crude and unworthy of the intelligence of the people here.  My above post is substantial departure from the way that I usually post.  I decided to give him a dose of his own medicine, because I'm sick of seeing it.  Maybe I need to take a break for awhile too, something to think about the next few days.

[Rich]

..Ok...so,even though we might be losing this war on terrorism (at this point in time)...<<

How do you figure we're losing? This is what I mean, it flies in the face of the facts. We haven't been attacked on American soil since 9-11, we've killed thousands of terrorists, taken out the leadership of Al Queda, and Saddam Hussein is boiling in hell and no longer fund terrorists or give them safe haven. How is that losing?

[Rich]

fatman,

If you're tired of it, don't waste my time with your limp wristed lectures. I'm not impressed. I was having a nice little discussion when you felt the need to stick your chubby little nose in and attack me.

Next time, ignore me, or keep your mouth big fat mouth shut.

Understand me Ms. Divine?

[Rich]

>>Rich is rich with prissiness ... <<

Some folks have a difficult time with the truth I guess. I'm going to avoid responding to this kind of thing because I don't feel you are up to the challenge are realize what you're asking for. I'm sorry the fatman is on the rag and felt the need to attack me. Since I can't slap people around after they go after me, I'll just chuckle a bit and consider the source.

I'd be happy to continue our discussion, but take my advice, don't discuss me with other people on the board. I'll eventually start talking about you.

K?

[fatman]

If you're tired of it, don't waste my time with your limp wristed lectures.

Ah, another insult, what a surprise.

I'm not impressed.

Darn, and I was trying sooo hard too.

I was having a nice little discussion

Sorry, but calling Cindy Sheehan "Cindy Shemale" and railing about these mythical "leftists" doesn't constitute a "nice little discussion".  More like a rhetorical propaganda piece.

when you felt the need to stick your chubby little nose in and attack me.

Because I'm tired of seeing you pull the same shit time after time.  I call knute on his shit, I'll call you on yours.  But hey, if you want to be a buffoon, by all means...

Next time, ignore me, or keep your mouth big fat mouth shut.

Point is, I don't have to ignore you.  Ignoring you is allowing you to keep spewing your bullshit all the time.  I won't do it.

Understand me Ms. Divine?

Is this supposed to be some kind of gay slur on your part?  Because if it is, you need to come up with something a little more original than that, or "limp-wristed lecture".  Wait, I forgot, you can't come up with anything original.  Guess you'd better do a quick google search and find something.

Some folks have a difficult time with the truth I guess.

I don't have a problem with the truth.  What I do have a problem with is mean-spirited buffoonery that you try to pass off as the truth.  I note that you didn't try to refute anything that I posted, which btw, in my post I didn't once call you a name (ms. divine, limp-wristed, etc.).  While Ami and sirs have demonstrated that nuance is not beyond understanding to those on the right, it evidently went way past you.

I'm going to avoid responding to this kind of thing

That's funny, I thought that the post you posted referring to me as a limp-wristed lecturing Ms. Divine constituted a response.  Want to clarify?

because I don't feel you are up to the challenge are realize what you're asking for.

Can you clean up your typos so that I can understand what the hell you're trying to say here?

I'm sorry the fatman is on the rag and felt the need to attack me.

Hmmm, I don't have a vagina and thus it's impossible for me to menstruate and be "on the rag".  Perhaps you should enroll in a remedial community college biology course so that you don't make these mistakes.  The need to attack you was derived from your own buffoonery.  I'm not some wild eyed rabid dog that attacks for no reason.  Perhaps you should consider that.

Since I can't slap people around after they go after me,

Two things here.  First, your instinct to escalate to violence after a war of words says a lot about you.  Rather than refute what was said, or even to resort to your standard technique of heaping tired cliches and insults on the person who disagreed with you, your first thought is to "slap people around".  If you can't get past that line of thinking, perhaps you should move on.  Second, I'd like to see the day that you could "slap me around".  While there was a time that I was fat, that day isn't anymore.  My monicker was chosen from the name of the atomic bomb, once again that nuance thing flies right past you.  I'm 30 years old and work out at the gym 5 nights a week.  I can bench press 420 lbs.  In high school I was a second-team all-state defensive tackle, and took the state title in wrestling my junior and senior year in the 190 lb division.  I took tae kwon do classes for 7 years.  So you might want to think twice before you spout off about slapping me around, I'm not some club hopping fairy that wilts under your steely gaze.

I'll just chuckle a bit and consider the source.

Yup, keep on chuckling.  Evidently you haven't considered the source at all, or you would have asked you why I posted the way I did.

But that's not a surprise.

[Rich]

fatman,

I'm not interested.

[fatman]

I'm not interested.

In what?  Is this what you do when you run out of insults and banalities?

[Rich]

Once again fatman, take your fixation elsewhere.

[Xavier_Onassis]

SO, yes, I think that the SS did not die in vain. Human beings do not die in vain. Period. That's my stand.....except for the criminal element ...those who intend to kill for the purpose of greed and self centered hate. Come on, you know the difference....Jesse James, Hitler...died in vain...their life was lived in vain. The men who fight for any cause do not die in vain. XO. that's all I am saying here. ....Ok. you want to know who dies in vain....The day Charlie Manson dies he will have fulfiled his death as a life without purpose..but again Jesus is the one who will judge his soul.
====================================================================================
Hitler dies in vain, but Hitler's soldiers did not die in vain, so long as they were fighting for a more powerful Third Reich and not personal gain. If a

Is that what you are saying?

What I understand as "dying in vain" to mean is that an individual has died in such a way as no worthy cause was advanced. Suppose you are driving a Humvee along a highway in Iraq, and it hits a bomb. Boom! You are dead. You many have had the intent to further the cause of democracy in Iraq, but the truth is, you died because of bad luck.

Had the tire of your Humvee been ten inches to the right or the left of the bomb, you would have been spared, alley, alley oxen free.

But you weren't. You had bad luck and now you are dead.
What did you accomplish by dying?

[Cynthia]

Now Now, Hp....I think that if one reads between the lines, Rich is expressing his own thoughts. I wonder why we jump on people for being left of right.....why can't one just debate and move on.
Rich is rich with pissiness, this is true, but I haven't read anytihng in this thread that spells out such as you have accused. Perhaps I am wrong, but he does believe in something in his heart. ....just as we all. I may have to re read his post..but I thought it was just "Richpo's way" of finding that strategy to debate.

I might be wrong.
I'll have to re read both your posts.

Well, I don't know who Hp is    But speaking for me Cynthia, I'm just tired of seeing it.  There are people on the right and left who manage to articulate their views with respect to disagreeing viewpoints, and I respect them for that.  The problem that I have with Rich is this: everything is absolute.  No ifs, ands, or buts.  No room for an opposing viewpoint.  No effort to try and see that viewpoint.  Everything is black and white, cut and dried.

Things don't work that way in the real world, most things are grey.  Even the red and blue states, when taken as a whole, are more purple than anything.  I had a good and respectful debate with Rich awhile back about gay marriage.  I like debates like that.  I don't like debates where people are derided and given malicious nicknames.  It's crude and unworthy of the intelligence of the people here.  My above post is substantial departure from the way that I usually post.  I decided to give him a dose of his own medicine, because I'm sick of seeing it.  Maybe I need to take a break for awhile too, something to think about the next few days.

LOL...three minutes after hitting the sheets and in the process of sleepyland, I realized all of a sudden my mistake. I was too tired to ge out of bed and fix it, Fatman. Sorry about that...I was so ttired last evening. I had been babysitting my precious niece who is 4 all weekend, and I was plum tired.
I'll get back o you here in a minute...>MY "T" key is not working well....so youa ll will have to read between the t lines. I have to HITTT IT HARD each time. These laptops are a pain.

more later.  . .FM>