DebateGate

General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: ZoSo on August 08, 2008, 03:32:41 PM

Title: Post Modern McCain : Phoenix New Times News
Post by: ZoSo on August 08, 2008, 03:32:41 PM
Postmodern John McCain: the presidential candidate some Arizonans know — and loathe

By Amy Silverman
Published on August 07, 2008

I've been a writer and editor at [the Phoenix] New Times for 15 years. For much of that time, I wrote about Arizona politics, which is to say that I wrote about John McCain. It's still odd to see the guy in the spotlight, because for quite a while, I was pretty much the only one covering him. I never did fall for him in the way reporters fall for politicians, probably because he wasn't much to fall for back in the early 1990s. In those days, McCain was still rehabilitating the image he'd later sell to the national media. He was known then for cavorting in the Bahamas with Charlie Keating, rather than for fighting for campaign finance reform and limited government spending.


http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2008-08-07/news/postmodern-mccain-the-john-mccain-some-arizonans-know-and-loathe/%20/2 (http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2008-08-07/news/postmodern-mccain-the-john-mccain-some-arizonans-know-and-loathe/%20/2)
Title: Re: Post Modern McCain : Phoenix New Times News
Post by: BT on August 08, 2008, 03:50:38 PM
Apparently Arizonans loathe him so much they keep re-electing him. Go figure.

Title: Re: Post Modern McCain : Phoenix New Times News
Post by: Amianthus on August 08, 2008, 03:55:42 PM
Apparently Arizonans loathe him so much they keep re-electing him. Go figure.

I guess they loathe him so much, they elect him just to get him out of the state...

;)
Title: Re: Post Modern McCain : Phoenix New Times News
Post by: Michael Tee on August 08, 2008, 04:27:47 PM
The heading of the post was:

<<Postmodern John McCain: the presidential candidate some Arizonans know — and loathe>>

SOME Arizonans, gentlemen.  Not ALL Arizonans, not even MOST Arizonans.  Just, presumably, the more perceptive Arizonans.
Title: Re: Post Modern McCain : Phoenix New Times News
Post by: Amianthus on August 08, 2008, 04:40:03 PM
Just, presumably, the more perceptive Arizonans.

The elite, huh?
Title: Re: Post Modern McCain : Phoenix New Times News
Post by: ZoSo on August 08, 2008, 04:57:27 PM
I guess they loathe him so much, they elect him just to get him out of the state...


The reason Arizona has become a battleground state isn't because voters there want to keep him all to themselves.

 McCain's flip flopping on immigration issues is givng Obama  the Hispanic vote.


In a "strategy briefing" video posted Saturday on the McCain campaign website, Rick Davis, the campaign manager, did not include Arizona as one of the 17 "historically Republican states" -- though Arizona has voted Republican in every presidential election but one since 1952. In that one election, of 1996, Bill Clinton carried Arizona by a 2.2 percent margin over Sen. Robert Dole.
Title: Re: Post Modern McCain : Phoenix New Times News
Post by: BT on August 08, 2008, 05:01:40 PM
What's Obama's position on immigration?
Title: Re: Post Modern McCain : Phoenix New Times News
Post by: Plane on August 08, 2008, 06:27:49 PM
What's Obama's position on immigration?


Change?
Title: Re: Post Modern McCain : Phoenix New Times News
Post by: sirs on August 08, 2008, 06:29:10 PM
 :D
Title: Re: Post Modern McCain : Phoenix New Times News
Post by: ZoSo on August 08, 2008, 11:04:05 PM
What's Obama's position on immigration?


Mexican rock band Mana is backing Barack Obama, saying a Democrat in the White House would be better for Mexicans on both sides of the border.




What more do you need to know?

Title: Re: Post Modern McCain : Phoenix New Times News
Post by: Cynthia on August 08, 2008, 11:17:43 PM
"McCain's flip flopping on immigration issues is givng Obama  the Hispanic vote."

This is true to a point.

Obama is getting the Hispanic Vote on more than the immigration issue. Hispanics are typically liberal in general. A black man is the closest safety net that the Hispanic can relate to in terms of a respected identity in American culture. A vote for Obama is going to lift the morale and self image of the Hispanic.

Title: Re: Post Modern McCain : Phoenix New Times News
Post by: BT on August 09, 2008, 08:20:08 AM
Quote
What more do you need to know?

Obama's position.

Title: Re: Post Modern McCain : Phoenix New Times News
Post by: ZoSo on August 09, 2008, 10:59:38 AM
Obama's position.




Wouldn't it be more "intellectually stimulating" for you to look it up yourself?


http://www.barackobama.com/issues/immigration/#improve-system (http://www.barackobama.com/issues/immigration/#improve-system)
Title: Re: Post Modern McCain : Phoenix New Times News
Post by: BT on August 09, 2008, 02:40:48 PM
Not a dimes difference between Obama's and McCains plan

http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/68db8157-d301-4e22-baf7-a70dd8416efa.htm (http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/68db8157-d301-4e22-baf7-a70dd8416efa.htm)
Title: Re: Post Modern McCain : Phoenix New Times News
Post by: Cynthia on August 09, 2008, 11:22:31 PM
:D

With all due respect...Sirs, why the  :D ?

Change?


Shed light, please on your response.
Title: Re: Post Modern McCain : Phoenix New Times News
Post by: sirs on August 10, 2008, 02:57:32 AM
Basically Cynthia, is in acknowledging Plane's little jab at Obama....in how his platform & pledges hold very little specifics, but is huge on "change"
Title: Re: Post Modern McCain : Phoenix New Times News
Post by: Plane on August 10, 2008, 05:28:23 AM
:D

With all due respect...Sirs, why the  :D ?

Change?


Shed light, please on your response.

As I understand it "change " is the only position BHO has that is not extremely flexable.
Title: Re: Post Modern McCain : Phoenix New Times News
Post by: Cynthia on August 10, 2008, 12:31:50 PM
:D

With all due respect...Sirs, why the&nbsp; :D ?

Change?


Shed light, please on your response.

As I understand it "change " is the only position BHO has that is not extremely flexable.
Change is the only constant.
You still have not shed light on what you meant by :D You are not being very flexible to explain your stance.
Rockin' down the house (http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/08/10/arch.collapse.ap/index.html)
Title: Re: Post Modern McCain : Phoenix New Times News
Post by: Cynthia on August 10, 2008, 12:35:02 PM
Not a dimes difference between Obama's and McCains plan

http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/68db8157-d301-4e22-baf7-a70dd8416efa.htm (http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/68db8157-d301-4e22-baf7-a70dd8416efa.htm)

SO perhaps McCain should not have run for president at all...., instead he could have been a contender as Obama's vice prez.  ;)
Title: Re: Post Modern McCain : Phoenix New Times News
Post by: BT on August 10, 2008, 01:22:34 PM
Quote
SO perhaps McCain should not have run for president at all...., instead he could have been a contender as Obama's vice prez. 

Don't see why.

American's know fluff when they see it. I wouldn't bank on an Obama victory quite yet.

Title: Re: Post Modern McCain : Phoenix New Times News
Post by: Cynthia on August 10, 2008, 03:01:45 PM
Quote
SO perhaps McCain should not have run for president at all...., instead he could have been a contender as Obama's vice prez. 

Don't see why.

American's know fluff when they see it. I wouldn't bank on an Obama victory quite yet.



So, if you are saying that McCain and Obama's policy thus far as so similar, then one would have to say....a dimes difference..that indeed McCain is fluff! ;)
Title: Re: Post Modern McCain : Phoenix New Times News
Post by: BT on August 10, 2008, 03:29:34 PM
Perhaps you might want to go back and follow the thread. There isn't a dimes difference between McCain and Obama's Immigration Policy. McCain's is a bit more specific. Walls equals Obama's infrastructure and drones equals Obama's technological advances.

And therein lies the diference between the candidates. Obama leans towards generic and vague. McCain doesn't.

Title: Re: Post Modern McCain : Phoenix New Times News
Post by: Cynthia on August 10, 2008, 04:53:42 PM
Perhaps you might want to go back and follow the thread. There isn't a dimes difference between McCain and Obama's Immigration Policy. McCain's is a bit more specific. Walls equals Obama's infrastructure and drones equals Obama's technological advances.

And therein lies the diference between the candidates. Obama leans towards generic and vague. McCain doesn't.



"Not a dimes difference between Obama's and McCains plan"

I have followed the thread.

McCain's is a bit more specific. Walls equals Obama's infrastructure and drones equals Obama's technological advances.

So you are admitting at this point, that there IS a difference, as I see it.
You didn't say that when you compared them on the dime. You intimated that they were too close to bother debating the issue.
 I believe that McCain is more "left" in his policies than most Republicans. Too bad they aren't running on the same ticket.....One would get the best of both worlds? ..but then again the severe right would be "left out" ;)
 

 
Title: Re: Post Modern McCain : Phoenix New Times News
Post by: sirs on August 10, 2008, 05:13:10 PM
You expect a candidate to be able to appease the entire electorate, Cynthia??     ???
Title: Re: Post Modern McCain : Phoenix New Times News
Post by: BT on August 10, 2008, 06:42:41 PM
If their plans were exactly the same i would have said not one red cents difference.

.
Title: Re: Post Modern McCain : Phoenix New Times News
Post by: Cynthia on August 10, 2008, 07:14:37 PM
If their plans were exactly the same i would have said not one red cents difference.

.

Your intent spoke otherwise, Bt

No biggie...just an observation.
Title: Re: Post Modern McCain : Phoenix New Times News
Post by: Plane on August 10, 2008, 07:32:13 PM

Rockin' down the house (http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/08/10/arch.collapse.ap/index.html)

Woould it be unfair to reassemble the arch?

There are modern adhesives that could make the arch stronger than it was at first.
Title: Re: Post Modern McCain : Phoenix New Times News
Post by: Plane on August 10, 2008, 07:43:48 PM
:D

With all due respect...Sirs, why the&nbsp; :D ?

Change?


Shed light, please on your response.

As I understand it "change " is the only position BHO has that is not extremely flexable.
Change is the only constant.
You still have not shed light on what you meant by :D You are not being very flexible to explain your stance.
Rockin' down the house (http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/08/10/arch.collapse.ap/index.html)

BHO might be wise to withold the details of his thinking , knowing the truth in detail might drive off voters who are happy as clams now, being kept in the dark.

I remember that Richard Nixon had a secret plan for ending the war in Vietnam , I bet he would have lost quite a few votes if he had told us that his plan was to bomb the Northern citys and mine the seaports of Vietnam , while sending Henry Kissenger behind the scenes to work out a deal for withdrawal under what ever best could be had fron the Vietnameese communists generosity. That plan might have struck some people funny if it weren't secret.

There are a lot of things in which Barak H. Obama holds his cards close to his chest , garrunteeing that there will be a lot of people vote for him who will be dissapointed later .

The solution for this?

Mind reading.

Let me try .....


Hmmmmmmmm...

 Hmmmmmmmmmm....

       Hmmmmmmmmmmm....

  I have one !

    Barak H. Obama plans to change the "No Child Left Behind " program by increasing the frequency of nationwide testing!


      Accuracy not garrunteed for my prognostications based on mind reading.


               Accuracy definately not garrunteed for your prognostications based on mind reading either , but if you are dissapointed in the guy you vote for you have voted already .
Title: Re: Post Modern McCain : Phoenix New Times News
Post by: BT on August 10, 2008, 08:15:09 PM
Quote
Your intent spoke otherwise, Bt

You are now the authority of my intent?
Title: Re: Post Modern McCain : Phoenix New Times News
Post by: Plane on August 10, 2008, 08:25:27 PM
Quote
Your intent spoke otherwise, Bt

You are now the authority of my intent?



Time again for mind reading....


   Hmmmmm...


       Hmmmmmmmm.....

          Hmmmmmmmmmmm......


          BT is thinking about the city water system.
Title: Re: Post Modern McCain : Phoenix New Times News
Post by: Cynthia on August 10, 2008, 08:34:28 PM
Quote
Your intent spoke otherwise, Bt

You are now the authority of my intent?


Yes ;D
Title: Re: Post Modern McCain : Phoenix New Times News
Post by: BT on August 10, 2008, 08:35:54 PM
pffft
Title: Re: Post Modern McCain : Phoenix New Times News
Post by: Cynthia on August 10, 2008, 09:28:45 PM
pffft

Teehee