We cant do business in Iraq without our murderous mercenaries. Time to go now?

[Knutey]

Grounded: U.S. Embassy Staff in Iraq Going Nowhere
After Weekend's Blackwater Incident, No Travel for U.S. Embassy Staff in Iraq

By TERRY MCCARTHY
BAGHDAD, Sept. 18, 2007 ?


The United States has grounded all civilian government employees in Iraq after the alleged killing of nine Iraqis on Sunday by Blackwater USA, a private security company.

A warden's message issued by the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad today said: "In light of the serious security incident involving a U.S. Embassy protection detail in the Mansour District of Baghdad on Sunday, September 16, 2007, the Embassy has suspended official U.S. government civilian ground movements outside the International Zone (IZ) and throughout Iraq."

Blackwater contractors were escorting a group of U.S. Embassy employees Sunday when a car bomb went off nearby in western Baghdad. As the Blackwater security team extracted the embassy staff from the location, a firefight developed and nine Iraqis were killed and 15 were wounded. No Americans were injured or killed.

Blackwater in a statement said its "contractors acted lawfully and appropriately in response to a hostile attack." Iraqi eyewitnesses told ABC News that the contractors were firing randomly at civilians on a busy street in the middle of the day.

The Iraqi government reacted angrily to the incident  Prime Minister Nouri Kamel al-Maliki called it a crime and the Iraq Interior Ministry said that it would revoke Blackwater's license to operate in the country and that it wanted the company expelled.

The North Carolina-based Blackwater has about 980 employees in Iraq providing security to the U.S. Embassy. The company, founded by former Navy SEALs, has been involved in a number of controversial fatal shootings of Iraqis in the past, and many Iraqis feel private security contractors are too trigger happy.

Unlike U.S. military personnel, private security contractors appear to fall into a legal gray area. They are not subject to prosecution by Iraqi courts unless the U.S. government hands them over, which is highly unlikely. There is also no clear precedent for prosecuting them in the United States.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=3619098

[Michael Tee]

from today's AP, reporting on a NYT article

. . . Americans and Iraqis have offered widely differing accounts of the Sunday incident, with Blackwater insisting that its guards returned fire against armed insurgents who were threatening American diplomats.

But The New York Times reported that a preliminary review by Iraq's Ministry of Interior found that Blackwater security guards fired at a car when it did not heed a policeman's call to stop, killing a couple and their infant.

The Times report said Blackwater helicopters also had fired ? a finding the company denies. The Ministry of Defense said 20 Iraqis were killed, considerably higher than the 11 dead reported before.

Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki said the Sunday shooting was "the seventh of its kind" involving Blackwater "and these violations should be dealt with."

"We will not tolerate the killing of our citizens in cold blood," al-Maliki said. "The work of this company has been stopped in order to know the reasons."

. . .

"Our information is that there was a violation,'" he said. "We moved to form a committee to reveal to the world whether those killed were armed or innocent."

. . .

Hairdresser Suhad Mirza, who witnessed the shooting, said she heard a "remote explosion sound, then, after about 15 minutes ... sounds of sirens used by police vehicles and heavy gunfire."

"I saw four-wheel drive vehicles opening fire randomly on people and other civilian cars in the street," Mirza said. "After five minutes of that, police and hospital ambulances reached to area to evacuate casualties."
===========================================================================
The contempt for Iraqi life and sovereignty is palpable.  Later on in the article, it quotes some guy in al-Maliki's office, already back-pedalling, to the effect that Blackwater can "make a committment" to "really studying" how it interacts with Iraqis or maybe "changing its name."  Ludicrous.  Maybe they could change their name to MoveOn.org.  The only hope for the Iraqi people is to throw the bums out - - ALL the bums, Blackwater and the ones that brought Blackwater with them.

[BT]

Sounds like an opportunity for another private security firm to fill the breach.

Too bad for Blackwater.

[Michael Tee]

Don't kid yourself.  They're way too invested.  They'll still be in the game in one form or another.  A few cosmetic changes, a little corporate re-organization, and they'll be back in business.  Or more accurately, they'll never have left the business.

[BT]

That may well be so. But then again Knutey's hypothesis that an early withdrawal will be required because of Blackwaters troubles doesn't withstand even cursory examination. Knutey's nuttiness is not surprising, what is,  is your recent tendency to jump on the nonsensical bandwagon without thinking your posts through.

[Michael Tee]

<<That may well be so. But then again Knutey's hypothesis that an early withdrawal will be required because of Blackwaters troubles doesn't withstand even cursory examination. Knutey's nuttiness is not surprising, what is,  is your recent tendency to jump on the nonsensical bandwagon without thinking your posts through.>>

Knute can speak for himself, but you never know what issue can turn into a pretext or a turning point in the war.  I don't believe that it's likely that the U.S. will be forced out early because of this but it is not impossible.

Otherwise, I don't know what "nonsensical bandwagon" or bandwagons you are referring to.

[BT]

Otherwise, I don't know what "nonsensical bandwagon" or bandwagons you are referring to.

We have the Kerry incident. We have the prisoner rehab issue. Need i go on?

[Michael Tee]

<<We have the Kerry incident. We have the prisoner rehab issue. Need i go on?>>

Honestly, you're losing it, BT.

The "Kerry incident" I made some comments, largely a series of questions, indicating that I had not viewed the tape (or which I thought would have indicated that) expressed some opinions - - one of which even Rich could agree with - - and all of which I will still support.

The "prisoner rehab issue" as you call it - - "prisoner brainwashing issue" is probably more appropriate - - was addressed with my usual impeccable logic and I stand by everything I said in it.

If that's your opinion of what's nonsensical, I'm sticking with the nonsense.  Whatever you call your bandwagon, I'm just gonna watch it pass.

[Christians4LessGvt]

it will most likely turn out like most other sensationalized events to make the US look bad
when the facts come out Blackwater will be innocent of any wrongdoing
more killed in one islamist bombing targeting civilians than all of gitmo's history
but all we hear is gitmo bad, gitmo bad, gitmo bad
more killed in one islamist bombing tageting civilians than all of abu ghraib
but all we hear is abu ghraib bad, abu ghraib bad, abu ghraib bad
more killed in one islamist bombing targeting civilians than anything Blackwater has ever done
but all we hear is Blackwater bad, Blackwater bad, Blackwater bad
it's called a distortion of reality
maliki over-reacted, politics is local, pacifist left got their headlines, Blackwater will return to duty
if i was in charge i would give Blackwater a medal of honor for their wonderful work
this is war, people are trying to kill you, to kill american officials, to kill iraqis supporting democracy
fighting iran in a proxy war is not pretty and wont be until we destroy iran's military
for anti-american pacifist leftist sitting in starbucks 2nd guessing is easy
i say the hell with what they think

[yellow_crane]

it will most likely turn out like most other sensationalized events to make the US look bad
when the facts come out Blackwater will be innocent of any wrongdoing
more killed in one islamist bombing targeting civilians than all of gitmo's history
but all we hear is gitmo bad, gitmo bad, gitmo bad
more killed in one islamist bombing tageting civilians than all of abu ghraib
but all we hear is abu ghraib bad, abu ghraib bad, abu ghraib bad
more killed in one islamist bombing targeting civilians than anything Blackwater has ever done
but all we hear is Blackwater bad, Blackwater bad, Blackwater bad
it's called a distortion of reality
maliki over-reacted, politics is local, pacifist left got their headlines, Blackwater will return to duty
if i was in charge i would give Blackwater a medal of honor for their wonderful work
this is war, people are trying to kill you, to kill american officials, to kill iraqis supporting democracy
fighting iran in a proxy war is not pretty and wont be until we destroy iran's military
for anti-american pacifist leftist sitting in starbucks 2nd guessing is easy
i say the hell with what they think

For those who might ponder the comprable tactics and history of Nazi's and Neocons, the main element of issue for Blackwater is the total lack of being held accountable.

When you have a semi-secret, corporational police force that has to account to nobody, how is that police force different from the Gestapo?

[BT]

Blackwater is accountable. Just not to the Iraqi's

[yellow_crane]

Blackwater is accountable. Just not to the Iraqi's

"There is no accountability for the tens of thousands of contractors working in Iraq and abroad.  Private contractors like Blackwater work outside the scope of the military's chain of command and can literally do whatever they please without any liability of accountability of the US Government.  They can also work in countries like Irag, which are not currently capable of enforcing the law and prosecuting wrongful conduct, such as murder.  Therefore, Blackwater can continue accepting hundreds of millions of dollars of taxpayer's money from the government, without having to answer a single question about how its security officers are killed.  It is our understanding that Blackwater has lost more operators than any other security company working in Iraq.

The inherent flaw in the manner in which private contractors are being used is that there is no accountability or oversight.  If the US military was performing the jobs it now farms out to the private sector, there would always be someone to answer to--all the way up to the president of the United States.  More importantly, those in the chain of command would be looking out for the best interests of the soldiers and the country.

In the case of Blackwater, the people making the critical decisions are those in corporate America, whose focus is often on cutting costs and making a profit."



http://oversight.house.gov/documents/20070207112354-05553.pdf

[BT]

"There is no accountability for the tens of thousands of contractors working in Iraq and abroad.  Private contractors like Blackwater work outside the scope of the military's chain of command and can literally do whatever they please without any liability of accountability of the US Government.

If they aren't accountable how can they have their contract yanked?