No doubt it works

[Richpo64]

>>I seriously doubt that the CIA lacks the expertise to edit the faces and voices of their torturers from these tapes.<<

They could have destroyed them without telling anyone either. They didn't. If they had released the video with the faces obscured, do people from your planet really believe the anti-American left would not squeal for their heads? Of course you would. Since the left believes water boarding is a crime, does any rational person believe they wouldn't plaster their names and faces all over the media? They'd want them put under the jail. Yet the left wants the Bush administration impeached for the Plame debacle.

 

[Plane]

>>I seriously doubt that the CIA lacks the expertise to edit the faces and voices of their torturers from these tapes.<<

They could have destroyed them without telling anyone either. They didn't. If they had released the video with the faces obscured, do people from your planet really believe the anti-American left would not squeal for their heads? Of course you would. Since the left believes water boarding is a crime, does any rational person believe they wouldn't plaster their names and faces all over the media? They'd want them put under the jail. Yet the left wants the Bush administration impeached for the Plame debacle.

 

The administration claims that they wanted the tapes preserved , is this a case of a CIA operateing outside of orders , or a set up of plausible denyability?

I could beleive either one.

[hnumpah]

How do we know that?

Have any charges been filed? Anyone even hint that there might be? Anyone accuse them of any criminal acts whatsoever? If so, what were they?

C'mon, BT, enquiring minds want to know.

[hnumpah]

Waterboarding isn't torture.

Are you sure? Have you tried it? From what I understand right now, the jury is still out on that one.

What torture are you referring too?

Any and all that they might have been stupid enough to commit on tape.

[hnumpah]

I seriously doubt that the CIA lacks the expertise to edit the faces and voices of their torturers from these tapes.

They probably could do just that. However, as was recently seen in the case of the nutjob in Europe that posted videos of himself molesting children, even though he 'masked' his face on the videos, the methods used to do so can be cracked.

I fail to see why the CIA wouldn't keep the tapes, if they were so innocent in nature, and insure they were only seen by, say, members of the Justice Department who might be investigating such claims, or a Congressional committee. If they are - or were - not incriminating, and show no law was broken, classify them appropriately to keep the identities a secret and file them away. If there was criminal activity on them, make them public - it would have been hard to keep the perpetrators identities secret throughout their arrest and trial, but even that could have been done, though if they were convicted, release the tapes.

[Xavier_Onassis]

They might have made the tapes to show to future prospective torturees, to show them that Bubba don't play.

My guess is that they destroyed them because they show severe cruelty and implicate the CIA in it.

Now the same goons can continue torturing, perhaps in Turkmenistan, perhaps on Diego Garcia, and they won't have to ever pay for their crimes.

[Richpo64]

>>The administration claims that they wanted the tapes preserved , is this a case of a CIA operateing outside of orders , or a set up of plausible denyability?<<

I'm sure they would have liked to preserve them, but like we've seen since the beginning of the war, there are people in the CIA and the State Department who are working against the adminstration for political reasons. Destroying these tapes and then leaking it to the press is typical of the adminstrations enemys in these organizations. Bush should have cleaned house in both the CIA and the State Department.

[Richpo64]

>>Are you sure?<<

Yes.

[Richpo64]

>>My guess is that they destroyed them because they show severe cruelty and implicate the CIA in it.<<

Why of course. I'm sure these CIA agents are monsters.  Afterall, they're Americans.

By the way, have you seen the Daniel Pearl tape? Shosei Koda? Paul Johnson? Eugene Armstrong? Jack Hensley? Kim Sun Il? The four Russians? All of these people have had their heads sawn off and it was filmed on video tape. Have you heard about Al Qaeda cooking a families young son and serving him to them?

This bogus concern liberal/anti-Americans claim to have about waterboarding terrorists to save lives is twisted and sick. People who actually think waterboarding is anything like what the enemy is doing to innocent men, women, and children are fucking insane.

[kimba1]

I brought this up last week and got no response
I`ll bring it up again in different words
torture  not only effects the person getting it
it also effect the person doing it and the observer.
people can`t seem to understand that

[Richpo64]

>>torture  not only effects the person getting it
it also effect the person doing it and the observer.<<

How profound.

[Lanya]

I brought this up last week and got no response
I`ll bring it up again in different words
torture  not only effects the person getting it
it also effect the person doing it and the observer.
people can`t seem to understand that

True. Like that Stanford experiment showed, it brings out the worst in us...and is of no benefit.
One article I read, it was a thing from WW2 and the trials of war criminals.  The things they did were not much different from what we are doing, from the photos at Abu Ghraib, etc. The descriptions of water torture were exactly the same as what we're reading in our newspapers now.
 And the people were convicted then and were war criminals.  No civilized society wants them.
I repeat: no CIVILIZED society....wants....them.   

[sirs]

I brought this up last week and got no response
I`ll bring it up again in different words
torture  not only effects the person getting it
it also effect the person doing it and the observer.
people can`t seem to understand that

True. Like that Stanford experiment showed, it brings out the worst in us...and is of no benefit.

     Sad, how very sad.

[Xavier_Onassis]

I'm sure they would have liked to preserve them, but like we've seen since the beginning of the war, there are people in the CIA and the State Department who are working against the adminstration for political reasons. Destroying these tapes and then leaking it to the press is typical of the adminstrations enemys in these organizations. Bush should have cleaned house in both the CIA and the State Department.

==================================================
Yeah. Bush should have cleaned house!

He could have chosen more geniuses like Eliot Abrams, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld. More bungling Neocons, more thieving contractors. If there is one thing that Juniorbush has been bad at it is choosing competent people. He is a bungling, knucklewalking, drooling incompetent fool himsel. He could no more restaff any agency with worthwhile people than my cat.

Being an enemy of this administration is a GOOD THING, because this administration is festooned with incompetent, stubborn morons.

I am sure he could have asked Mossad to send him some spymasters that would have made you scream with orgasmic delight.

[Plane]

You could say Sipowicz eased our acceptance of Tony Soprano by teaching viewers how to love an epicly flawed person and believe it was possible such a man could redeem himself.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/tv/213889_tv01.html

Wvery now and then Sipowicz woud break a nose , thrashing a prisoner while the other officers were fetching coffe. "NYPD Blue" was one of the cutting edge of gritty shows in '93 , back when an eight year old might have been watching it then, and could be a seargent in the Army now.

More recently "24" shows a even greater tolerance for beating the truth out of a prisoner, kids learn a lot about what is and isn't socialy acceptable from their TV.

Sipowicz had somewhat good judgement and got good results from his interogation tecniques , isn't he the guy you waould want on the case if you had been kidnapped?