Death Knell for "Don't Ask, Don't Tell"?

[kimba1]

but if this is a issue of morale ,how were we able to allow blacks in the military this long without it being still an issue
I kinda doubt all our soldier today are non racist.

[Plane]

but if this is a issue of morale ,how were we able to allow blacks in the military this long without it being still an issue
I kinda doubt all our soldier today are non racist.

Before you join you need to be aware that you may be sleeping in the same compartment with thirty guys , and that the compartment might be 15' x 30' , this might make a racist very unhappy but generally commanders don't care how racists feel as long as they make no noise , if they make troubble it is going to be cured by the commander.


In the future we may have to tell prospective recruits that they will share showers with people who are openly gay , is this something like removeing the partition to the womens shower?

Before the Women were allowed on combat ships there was no need for partitions , sailors just learned to live with less privacy than civilians generally want.

The racists being bothered turns out to have been a tolerable problem , because after the week the worst of them are either out or grown smarter.

Is the problem of bunking with people who find you sexually attractive, really that simular to bunking that you find repellant?

[fatman]

Is the problem of bunking with people who find you sexually attractive, really that simular to bunking that you find repellant?

So what about the current closeted gays in the service?  Do you really believe that there are no gay people serving their country at this moment?  I don't understand the fuss, it would seem to me that if a gay man were making unwanted advances, that could be dealt with.  Are you saying that there is no current machinery to do this?

The racists being bothered turns out to have been a tolerable problem , because after the week the worst of them are either out or grown smarter.

Why wouldn't/shouldn't this apply to homophobic people as well?

[Plane]

Is the problem of bunking with people who find you sexually attractive, really that simular to bunking that you find repellant?

So what about the current closeted gays in the service?  Do you really believe that there are no gay people serving their country at this moment?  I don't understand the fuss, it would seem to me that if a gay man were making unwanted advances, that could be dealt with.  Are you saying that there is no current machinery to do this?

The racists being bothered turns out to have been a tolerable problem , because after the week the worst of them are either out or grown smarter.

Why wouldn't/shouldn't this apply to homophobic people as well?

If you and I were in ajacent racks we would be sleeping within inches of each other , on my ship I spent five years like this  , if I never knew you thought of me as attractive I wouldn't be bothered , as soon as I know one of us has got to go. Which of us is it going to be?

Women on shipboard are being coped with with a lot of locked doors , this is worth doing even  though on a warship a locked door is liable to kill a sailor trying to flee a fire. Can the Navy produce four diffrent types of bunking to segregate the four diffrent gender preferences?

[fatman]

Can the Navy produce four diffrent types of bunking to segregate the four diffrent gender preferences?

With the money that we pour into defense, why couldn't it?  As Ami pointed out, in conscription based militaries, gays have to serve.  How do those militaries get around the bunking question?

[fatman]

as soon as I know one of us has got to go.

Why is that?

[Plane]

as soon as I know one of us has got to go.

Why is that?

Same reason they never let me into the girls locker room at the gym. I am quite sure that I cold keep my hands to myself , but this seems to not be the only objection.

[Plane]

Can the Navy produce four diffrent types of bunking to segregate the four diffrent gender preferences?

With the money that we pour into defense, why couldn't it?  As Ami pointed out, in conscription based militaries, gays have to serve.  How do those militaries get around the bunking question?

In Isreal? With a tiny Navy .

No , redesigning ships to accomadate women has been a terrible inefficiency and has increased the cost of ship operation a lot , the situation is already hard to tolerate.

[Christians4LessGvt]

what a bunch of BS
political correctness makes us less effective on the battlefield

[fatman]

political correctness makes us less effective on the battlefield

Got something to back that up?

[fatman]

In Isreal? With a tiny Navy .

I may be wrong, but doesn't China have conscription?  And I don't think that their Navy is exactly tiny.  Are you advocating sexual segregation only in the Navy, or in all branches?

[fatman]

Same reason they never let me into the girls locker room at the gym. I am quite sure that I cold keep my hands to myself , but this seems to not be the only objection.

If it were a woman bunking next to you thinking that you were attractive, would you have the same reaction or does that pertain solely to a homosexual?

[Christians4LessGvt]

fatman love affairs & the battlefield dont mix
hetro or homo
if people are sleeping with each other
it makes the team less effective in battle

you cant tell me that if soldiers have their wives on the battle
front with them it would not complicate the mission
#1 allegiances would come into play
you dont want a guy covering your back that is also covering another guys back that he is sleping with
who would get the better "coverage"
yeah sure the lover wouldn't get more attention

you think in an office environment if a male boss is sleeping one of girls in the office
the girl gets the same treatment as the other girls?
yeah sure
at least in an office our national security and freedom are not on the line

if 2 soldiers are trapped and laid down in an alley in Iraq
under heavy fire, maybe wounded
bleak situation, where maybe one is saveable
you dont want any part of the decision as to who to save
come down to because the commander is sleeping with John, so lets save John
and human nature says it will

the military is a killing machine
nothing is more important in the military than winning
political correctness should take a back seat to the military's important mission
we dont need your homo agenda introduced to the arena
play your games elsewhere

[Amianthus]

if people are sleeping with each other
it makes the team less effective in battle

The Spartans and Greeks would disagree with you. As well as quite a few other cultures.

[fatman]

fatman love affairs & the battlefield dont mix
hetro or homo
if people are sleeping with each other
it makes the team less effective in battle

you cant tell me that if soldiers have their wives on the battle
front with them it would not complicate the mission
#1 allegiances would come into play
you dont want a guy covering your back that is also covering another guys back that he is sleping with
who would get the better "coverage"
yeah sure the lover wouldn't get more attention

you think in an office environment if a male boss is sleeping one of girls in the office
the girl gets the same treatment as the other girls?
yeah sure
at least in an office our national security and freedom are not on the line

if 2 soldiers are trapped and laid down in an alley in Iraq
under heavy fire, maybe wounded
bleak situation, where maybe one is saveable
you dont want any part of the decision as to who to save
come down to because the commander is sleeping with John, so lets save John
and human nature says it will

the military is a killing machine
we dont need your homo agenda introduced to the arena
play your games elsewhere

The problem with this argument is that you're assuming that because a serviceman is gay that he'll be sleeping with other servicemen.  I haven't seen anything to lead me to believe that, and I'm gay.  Is sex between co-eds permitted in the military?  I ask because I honestly don't know.  It seems to me to be a bad idea for co-eds to be sleeping together, regardless of their orientation, and it seems even worse to use that supposition (that gays will sleep with their comrades in arms) as a basis to deny people the right to serve their country.

In the case that the 9th circuit ruled on, which the article was about, the servicewoman was having a relationship with a civilian, not a service member.  Nor was that relationship open, someone tipped her commander off as to it.  If the case was about a gay service member sleeping with another service member, I could understand your point, but in this case I can't.  What's next, the military won't allow service members to have friends in their platoon, because by your argument (preferential treatment) that should legitimately be banned.