Author Topic: home school question  (Read 8741 times)

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kimba1

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Re: home school question
« Reply #30 on: September 16, 2007, 08:22:29 PM »
tenure is good ,but it really shouldn`t be so difficult to remove costy non-performing teachers
the real question is how good is the review process
if it`s influenced by parents
you might as well shutdown the schools
if you look at most of the root causes of school problems it`s the parents.

Michael Tee

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Re: home school question
« Reply #31 on: September 16, 2007, 09:36:05 PM »
I think the one great function of the public schools is the socialization of the child and the introduction of the individual on a fairly intimate basis to other individuals from (hopefully) a wide variety of cultural backgrounds.  This is obviously either totally unavailable or at best only partially available under home schooling.  For that reason, I think home-schooling (or private schooling to a lesser degree) is anti-social, destructive of community values and ill-equips the child for interaction with diverse racial and religious groups in the broader community.

My parents, my wife and our kids are all proud products of the Toronto public school system and we all found it to be a wonderful and enriching experience. 

I would think home schooling would be appropriate only in very special circumstances, such as a gross failure of the local public schools, to  the point where the child is physically at risk.

BT

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Re: home school question
« Reply #32 on: September 16, 2007, 10:20:52 PM »
I would think home schooling appropriate if the parents think it appropriate and the curriculum met educational requirements set by the state.


Michael Tee

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Re: home school question
« Reply #33 on: September 16, 2007, 10:39:07 PM »
I think there's a point where the child needs protection from the parents' views on what is appropriate education.  For example, if their views are likely to turn the kid into an anti-social nut.  "Education" in the broadest sense requires that the kid interact with a cross-section of the citizenry of his or her own age, not just with the parents, and if they are going to deprive the kid of that experience, it may not be in the child's best interests to let them get away with it.

BT

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Re: home school question
« Reply #34 on: September 16, 2007, 10:53:40 PM »
I think there's a point where the child needs protection from the parents' views on what is appropriate education.  For example, if their views are likely to turn the kid into an anti-social nut.  "Education" in the broadest sense requires that the kid interact with a cross-section of the citizenry of his or her own age, not just with the parents, and if they are going to deprive the kid of that experience, it may not be in the child's best interests to let them get away with it.

Sounds like you have no faith in the oversight responsibilities of the state. Strange viewpoint for a Commie.

Michael Tee

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Re: home school question
« Reply #35 on: September 16, 2007, 11:03:25 PM »
That's a level of irony I''m not accustomed to from you, BT.  What am I missing here?

BT

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Re: home school question
« Reply #36 on: September 16, 2007, 11:07:03 PM »
Quote
I would think home schooling appropriate if the parents think it appropriate and the curriculum met educational requirements set by the state.

Michael Tee

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Re: home school question
« Reply #37 on: September 16, 2007, 11:15:31 PM »
I stand to be corrected, but I'll take that as pure irony directed at my willingness to let the needs and/or demands of the state (to suppress anti-social education of its citizens) override parental wishes for the education of their children.

BT

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Re: home school question
« Reply #38 on: September 17, 2007, 12:07:58 AM »
I didn't take it as ironic. I took it as your don't really read the osts you reply to. And i certainly don't agree that homeschooling is a de facto anti social institution.

Michael Tee

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Re: home school question
« Reply #39 on: September 17, 2007, 01:13:00 AM »
How so?  I read every post in this thread.

yellow_crane

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Re: home school question
« Reply #40 on: September 17, 2007, 02:18:16 AM »
I think there's a point where the child needs protection from the parents' views on what is appropriate education.  For example, if their views are likely to turn the kid into an anti-social nut.  "Education" in the broadest sense requires that the kid interact with a cross-section of the citizenry of his or her own age, not just with the parents, and if they are going to deprive the kid of that experience, it may not be in the child's best interests to let them get away with it.


It is universally correct and sound to allow any child from any nation the opportunity to escape from bigotry and ignorance--even the bigotry and ignorance of their parents if they so be.  

So often they be.

The state should embrace the responsibility to enable such opportunities and provide a viable apparatus to permit its manifestation whenever necessary.  

Education, employing the principles of liberalism to ensure societal harmony, served this function well until after the sixties in America, when the relentless right wing conspired to kill education in America.  Most of the megaphones were handed out to operatives who were preachers of some note, you might recall.

They have succeeded quite well, in that any real respect for teaching is always now suspended from the frivilous involvement of pumped- up, needlesome parents, who have pestered education into granting almost complete compliance to the notion that the idiot parents, often from the Christian Right, can have their way totally in matters of philosophical approach.  The operating m.o. has a striking similarity reference to 'lunatics running the asylums.'

A teacher today finds it almost impossible to become the least bit controversial, so they stick to a script that is politcally-correct prophylactic.  The students, their minds now dulled with conscripted blandness, become bored and check out completely.

I find it completely in tune with evolutionary law that the outcome and growth and evovlment should sway to the offspring, to correct the errors of the sirers.

Taking kids up and away out of ignorance is the law of education and evolution too.

The polar opposite of this perspective is the perspective of the cultist, wherein instilling and maintaining ignorance is the very meat of  creed.

I went to a high school wherein the principal threw a recalcitrant pupil down twenty concrete steps to the sidewalk; when his father, the long term igniter of his hate, arrived to disagree, the principal threw him down the same twenty steps.

The principal confronted ignorance, benefitting the child with the lesson at the expense of the parent and his ignorance.

Clarity.

I perfer this approach to that of a school riddled with holes from within and out by a hoard of swarming born again Christian parents, ever looking to snarl and yell at the first item, however trivial, that can be dissapproved of from a troubled puritan perspective.

The whole of the war about keeping religion out of schools rests on this border.  Grant them but a foothold (some prayer permitted on school grounds) and they will seek to overtake the whole philosophy.  This is true because their every philosophical approach is one of absolutism.  They are afire with the truth, though they be drenched in ignorance.

And when they can't, they get pissed and take their children home, to teach them themselves, even though their preponderant ignorance shines like the Northern Lights.   This is abuse.






Michael Tee

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Re: home school question
« Reply #41 on: September 17, 2007, 10:40:44 AM »
Excellent post, Crane.  I think there's a case for public education, a case for involved parents through the P.T.A. and school board elections, and that's where it stops.  Abuses in the public schools can be challenged and corrected through the P.T.A./elections route.  Christian Right takeovers of the P.T.A. have to be fought by sane and normal people's participation.  It's like any democracy, the lunatics have a right to take over the asylum if the normal folks don't bother to fight back.   But if for the sake of argument the lunatics DO take over the asylum, I still would want my kids in the lunatics' school, because at that point the lunatics ARE the larger society that my kid has to live in and he needs to know them first-hand (and they, him.)

Mr_Perceptive

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Re: home school question
« Reply #42 on: September 24, 2007, 03:02:07 PM »
Excellent post, Crane.  I think there's a case for public education, a case for involved parents through the P.T.A. and school board elections, and that's where it stops.  Abuses in the public schools can be challenged and corrected through the P.T.A./elections route.  Christian Right takeovers of the P.T.A. have to be fought by sane and normal people's participation.  It's like any democracy, the lunatics have a right to take over the asylum if the normal folks don't bother to fight back.   But if for the sake of argument the lunatics DO take over the asylum, I still would want my kids in the lunatics' school, because at that point the lunatics ARE the larger society that my kid has to live in and he needs to know them first-hand (and they, him.)

Not being part of the Chrisitian Right, I nonetheless do believe there is some justificaiton for their actions. As I mentioned in an earlier post, several of my children were educated in public schools and, generally, the reuslts were good, but only because me and my wife, particularly my wife, were involved intimately.

To even assert, however, that the GOVERNMENT, represented by its school system, take even more major decision making out of the hands of parents is unacceptable. I know what is best for my child, not some feather-chested nincompoop who think they know it all just because they have the position. I have had many lieutenants in my tenure that thought they knew what was the "can", only to get hammered for it. The smarter ones learned from ME and not the other way around. Several of those are now in the General ranks, justifiably so. Just because you have a position of authority, does NOT presume you have the appropriate knowledge, only the means to apply pressure and authority.

In short, most parents know more about the needs of their children than the Government.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2007, 05:03:01 PM by Mr_Perceptive »

kimba1

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Re: home school question
« Reply #43 on: September 24, 2007, 03:23:54 PM »
correction some parents
I have never heard anyone saying having a child increases a persons intelligence or rationality

Mr_Perceptive

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Re: home school question
« Reply #44 on: September 24, 2007, 05:03:56 PM »
correction some parents
I have never heard anyone saying having a child increases a persons intelligence or rationality

This may be true, but to penalize the rest by applying even more stringent requirements is unduly rigid. Hammer THOSE parents)e.g. the subset), not the superset.