Author Topic: oh my the left pacifist will love this  (Read 5859 times)

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Christians4LessGvt

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oh my the left pacifist will love this
« on: October 15, 2007, 10:12:05 PM »
which is it?
is hillary lying or would she attack iran?



Clinton would use violence against Tehran

Suzanne Goldenberg in Washington
Monday October 15, 2007

Hillary Clinton today moved to secure her position as the most hawkish Democrat in the 2008 presidential race, saying she would consider the use of force to compel Iran to abandon its nuclear programme.

In an article for Foreign Affairs magazine intended as a blueprint for the foreign policy of a future Clinton White House, the Democratic frontrunner argues that Iran poses a long term strategic challenge to American and its allies, and that it must not be permitted to build or acquire nuclear weapons."If Iran does not comply with its own commitments and the will of the international community, all options must remain on the table," Ms Clinton said.

Elsewhere, Ms Clinton took the edge off her steely posture by saying she would abandon the Bush administration's policy of isolating its enemies, and would deploy diplomacy.

"True statesmanship requires that we engage with our adversaries, not for the sake of talking but because robust diplomacy is a prerequisite to achieving our aims."

She says she would even consider offering incentives to Iran in return for a pledge to disarm. However, she sets out a series of stringent conditions that are virtually identical to current White House policy.

"If Iran is in fact willing to end its nuclear weapons programme, renounce sponsorship of terrorism, support Middle East peace, and play a constructive role in stabilising Iraq, the United States should be prepared to offer Iran a carefully calibrated package of incentives," Ms Clinton wrote.

The article, the latest in a series of position papers from the leading Democratic and Republican contenders for the White House, offers a glimpse at Ms Clinton's efforts to appeal to Democrats seeking a repudiation of the current regime's world view when they begin voting in primaries next January, as well as to the broader electorate that will vote in November 2008.

It arrives only days after Ms Clinton was severely criticised by her Democratic rivals for backing a Senate resolution calling on the US government to declare Iran's Revolutionary Guards, the elite division of Tehran's military, a terrorist entity.

The measure has been argued strenuously by the vice-president, Dick Cheney, and other neocons, but such a sweeping designation does not appear to have the support of the state department.

Ms Clinton was the only Democratic candidate to support the resolution, and her rivals said her vote could help the Bush administration make a future case for war against Iran.

Unlike the five other candidates to sketch out their vision of foreign policy to date, Ms Clinton gave little indication of her comprehensive world view.

However, she pledged to avoid the "ideologically blinkered" policies of the current presidency. "Avoid false choices driven by ideology," she wrote.

On Iraq, Ms Clinton offered a small variation on her promises on the campaign trail, saying she would instruct her Pentagon chief and other military leaders to draw up a withdrawal plan within 60 days of her inauguration. However, she would consider leaving behind a residual force in the Kurdish areas of northern Iraq.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections08/hillaryclinton/story/0,,2191830,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=networkfront


"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

kimba1

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Re: oh my the left pacifist will love this
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2007, 11:41:22 PM »
so
you have something agianst pacifist?
saying christ has wrong to turn the other cheek?

Plane

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Re: oh my the left pacifist will love this
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2007, 11:48:11 PM »
  Historicly some of th most militant leadership humans have ever had were women , so why not?

Michael Tee

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Re: oh my the left pacifist will love this
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2007, 09:10:59 AM »
As a woman, Hillary is perceived in some quarters as weak and so she has to take some pre-emptive action to dispel the negative imagery right from the start. 

Hillary is a bad Democrat, she talks anti-war out of one side of her mouth and pro-war out of the other.  I hope people can see through her but I fear they won't.  Actually the best candidate would be Bush if he could run again.  He's bringing the train wreck on faster than any other politician could do, and when the wreck finally happens, conservatism will be dead for at least 50 years.

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: oh my the left pacifist will love this
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2007, 10:38:28 AM »
"so you have something agianst pacifist?"

no really, more like pity, because i believe most of them suffer from mental illness

saying christ has wrong to turn the other cheek?

exactly the opposite
imo "turn the other cheek" is a challenge to pursue justice rather than take vengeance
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Michael Tee

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Re: oh my the left pacifist will love this
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2007, 10:47:04 AM »

<<imo "turn the other cheek" is a challenge to pursue justice rather than take vengeance>>

imo, pursuing justice is slapping the guy who slapped you, or suing his ass off - - - and turning the other cheek is helping the guy to work off his aggression by offering to serve as his target.  One of the dumbest ideas to come out of the New Testament and it's a veritable fountain of wrong-headed stupidity.  My other favourite, BTW, was ripping out your own eye if it happened to look lustfully at a woman.

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: oh my the left pacifist will love this
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2007, 11:01:20 AM »

more importantly i just hope hillary isn't lying
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

_JS

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Re: oh my the left pacifist will love this
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2007, 11:09:32 AM »
Quote
saying christ has wrong to turn the other cheek?

exactly the opposite
imo "turn the other cheek" is a challenge to pursue justice rather than take vengeance

It must be awesome being a Protestant and just making Christianity up as you go along to suit your needs.

Hitler was fond of the militant Christ as well.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: oh my the left pacifist will love this
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2007, 12:30:50 PM »
"It must be awesome being a Protestant and just making Christianity up as you go along to suit your need, Hitler was fond of the militant Christ as well"

biblical scholars of all faiths that spend their entire lives studying the bible can't even agree
are they all just "making it up as they go along"?
or maybe they just have an honest difference of opinion and translation
without implying the other conclusions are hitler like
you should be ashamed of yourself
as far as i know the bible is not written for you to dictate it's meaning to me
quit trying to be god

again, before leftist try thread drift again: I HOPE HILLARY ISN'T LYING


« Last Edit: October 16, 2007, 12:33:25 PM by ChristiansUnited4LessGvt »
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

_JS

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Re: oh my the left pacifist will love this
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2007, 12:44:11 PM »
Oh, so you're a Biblical Scholar now?

Pray tell, what approach did you use to come to your conclusion?
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: oh my the left pacifist will love this
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2007, 01:44:18 PM »
Historicly some of th most militant leadership humans have ever had were women , so why not?

Really?

I can't think of anyone othjer than Maggie Thatcher.


Jesus was militant in only one scene in the NT, when he threw a hissy fit at the moneychangers in the Temple.

I think he got semi-pissed at a fig tree.

But militant was hardly an accurate description of Jesus.

The Militant Christ exists only in the imagination of militant believers.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: oh my the left pacifist will love this
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2007, 01:55:13 PM »
Oh, so you're a Biblical Scholar now?

what in the world are you talking about?
did you miss the point again?

Pray tell, what approach did you use to come to your conclusion?

i reach my own personal conclusions by reading, listening, and faith just like everyone else
including the bible scholars i referred to that do not agree with each other.

again, I HOPE HILLARY ISN'T LYING WHEN SHE SAYS SHE MIGHT ATTACK IRAN

"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Amianthus

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Re: oh my the left pacifist will love this
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2007, 02:00:12 PM »
I can't think of anyone othjer than Maggie Thatcher.

Cleopatra II, Medb (Maeve) of Ireland, Aife (Aoife) of Alba (Scotland), Queen Scathach of Skye, Queen Boadicea (or Bodiecia, Bouddica, Voadica, Voada) of the Iceni, Queen Aethelburgh, Queen Thyra, Eleanor of Castile, Queen Tamara of Georgia, Empress Maud (also known as Matilda) Germany, Jehanne la Pucelle (better known as Joan of Arc), Graine Ni Maille (also known as Grace O'Malley), Catherine the Great of Russia, Phillipa of Hainault.

Need more?
« Last Edit: October 16, 2007, 02:11:33 PM by Amianthus »
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Lanya

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Re: oh my the left pacifist will love this
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2007, 02:03:25 PM »
Quote
saying christ has wrong to turn the other cheek?

exactly the opposite
imo "turn the other cheek" is a challenge to pursue justice rather than take vengeance

It must be awesome being a Protestant and just making Christianity up as you go along to suit your needs.

Hitler was fond of the militant Christ as well.

Now please, don't think all Protestants believe like that.  I certainly don't. I've never even heard that weird interpretation of "turn the other cheek" before.
 Bush's church, the United Methodist, has spoken out against the Iraq war, as have several others.
Turn the other cheek means just that. 
Whenever I hear talk about a militant Christ, I think of the slavering crowds shouting, "Give us Barrabas!"
Planned Parenthood is America’s most trusted provider of reproductive health care.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: oh my the left pacifist will love this
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2007, 02:19:26 PM »
Cleopatra II, Medb (Maeve) of Ireland, Aife (Aoife) of Alba (Scotland), Queen Scathach of Skye, Queen Boadicea (or Bodiecia, Bouddica, Voadica, Voada) of the Iceni, Queen Aethelburgh, Queen Thyra, Eleanor of Castile, Queen Tamara of Georgia, Empress Maud (also known as Matilda) Germany, Jehanne la Pucelle (better known as Joan of Arc), Graine Ni Maille (also known as Grace O'Malley), Catherine the Great of Russia, Phillipa of Hainault.

==================================================================================
Ami the Medievalist. of course.


These are ancients. Their importance decreases with the square of their antiquity, I am afraid.

For every bellicose woman leader there have been dozens of warmongering men. I find this list unimpressive.

In 2000 years, one will can find so many two-headed calves that a one-headed one will seem like a freak.
-----------------------------------

Hillary is after Jewish campaign contributions from wealthy and bellicose Jews, the ones that would delight in a war with Iran.

One can never be too pro Israeli or pro Jewish when one is a senator from NY.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."