Author Topic: Iran Could Have Nuclear Bomb in Three Years  (Read 3837 times)

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BT

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Re: Iran Could Have Nuclear Bomb in Three Years
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2007, 05:24:36 PM »
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It is pretty damn difficult to carry around an atomic weapon, despite what Hollywood has portrayed. Our trouble in Iraq is to weapons that aren't anything close to WMD. In fact, much of it has nothing at all to do with Iran. Moreover, Iran is not a country with one mindset, there are many in Iran who disapprove of this, including high ranking Muslim clerics.

What does iraq have to do with Iran having nuclear weapons? And what does it matter if pakistan has them when evaluating whether Iran, absent successful diplomatic efforts which the euro's worked at for years, should be allowed to possess the biggest WMD of all, wth their backing of terror in mind.



domer

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Re: Iran Could Have Nuclear Bomb in Three Years
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2007, 05:53:00 PM »
Tellingly, ignoring what should be any wary American's first instinct following the Iraq War debacle, no one has asked whether the referenced Intelligence Assessment is wrong or misleading, and whether CBS News got even their version right. This makes a crucial difference, to me, because the timeline projected in the news article would make the Iran-nuke issue much more immediate and subject to legitimate attention by the Bush Administration. With a longer timeline, much of the heavy-lifting (read: thinking, foremost) could be left to succeeding administrations.

But the report does give us cause to brush off the cobwebs on our brains. Characteristically, JS offers us both insightful and helpful observation, to a minor extent about the global milieu Iran is operating in, but much more profoundly the great potential for internal amelioration that could spread from the crosscurrents of modernization in Iran, which are more like a riptide than a tsunami but are real and potent nonetheless.

With time, we might be able to rely on these political forces, not so much, perhaps, to sandbag the nuclear effort but to see it placed in more responsible hands. (Nuclear proliferation is one of the curses of the modern age, and even now I see no sure way to satisfy the drive short of acquisition.) However, and this is preparing for a worst-case scenario (a self-destructive, omni-destructive, rogue regime), we must "game out" both an air campaign to wipe out the nuclear facilities, with a follow-on ground campaign (if feasible) to hold our gains, or else even a nuclear attack -- the horror of horrors -- but, in our most sober assessment, maybe "less harmful" than a first-strike by an enemy. To fathom such a problem, the thinkers would have to use game theory and utility analysis, but most of all, I suggest, favorable winds from the Almighty.

sirs

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Re: Iran Could Have Nuclear Bomb in Three Years
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2007, 06:18:34 PM »
Just a head's up Domer.....I'm on record as indicating I'd require more "proof" this go around, as a direct consequence of the intel deficiencies regarding Iraq's WMD, before I'd support any military incursion, into Iran by U.S. forces.

Perhaps this could be a question for Pooch, Capt, even Bt or Ami, as it relates to what would be harder evidence than Intel estimates, (outside of a nuclear detonation of course), that could demonstrate the status of an Iranian Nuclear Weapons' program?
« Last Edit: May 01, 2007, 07:27:27 PM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: Iran Could Have Nuclear Bomb in Three Years
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2007, 06:54:03 PM »
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Perhaps this could be a question for Pooch, Capt, even Bt or Qmi, as it relates to what would be harder evidence than Intel estimates, (outside of a nuclear detonation of course), that could demonstrate the status of an Iranian Nuclear Weapons' program?

Ah what the hell let them build the bombs. Sooner or later the situation will escalate and then we will have all the data necessary to place the blame on this or future administrations for not doing anything tp prevent it.

 


Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Iran Could Have Nuclear Bomb in Three Years
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2007, 07:20:35 PM »
Kindly observe that most of this Nervous Nellie crap about Iran's nukes is coming from Israel.

I insist that Israel's interests and those of the US are not one and the same.

Israel is a colony in the midst of people who hate colonialization, and one that has a nasty habit of expanding and treating their minorities like sh*t.

Israel has a right to chatter, but wise Americans should recognize that chatter for what it is.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Michael Tee

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Re: Iran Could Have Nuclear Bomb in Three Years
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2007, 09:27:28 PM »
Does anybody ever wonder whether the criminal aggression of the U.S.A. and Israel might have any relation to the desire of the Iranian leadership to arm itself as rapidly as possible? 

The lesson of Iraq seems to be pretty clear: a U.S. invasion and occupation plunges a Middle East nation into hell.  Iran is a Middle East nation.  Hmmm. 

I say good luck to Iran and its nuclear weapons program.  They will need all the strength they can muster to fight off U.S. and Israeli encroachments on their sovereignty.  The fear that Iran would launch a nuclear strike on Israel is ludicrous.   That would be like signing their own death warrant.

The only REAL thing at stake in this debate is this:  America wants to dictate to Iran and you don't dictate so easily to someone armed with nuclear weapons.  Tough shit.

BT

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Re: Iran Could Have Nuclear Bomb in Three Years
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2007, 12:45:46 AM »
Kindly observe that most of this Nervous Nellie crap about Iran's nukes is coming from Israel.

I insist that Israel's interests and those of the US are not one and the same.

Israel is a colony in the midst of people who hate colonialization, and one that has a nasty habit of expanding and treating their minorities like sh*t.

Israel has a right to chatter, but wise Americans should recognize that chatter for what it is.


So when both countries turn into glass parking lots we can all scratch our head and say we didn't see it coming.


Plane

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Re: Iran Could Have Nuclear Bomb in Three Years
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2007, 01:24:09 AM »
Does anybody ever wonder whether the criminal aggression of the U.S.A. and Israel might have any relation to the desire of the Iranian leadership to arm itself as rapidly as possible? 

Not for a nanoscond, Iran would be more safe from such agression without atomicwepons.
Quote


The lesson of Iraq seems to be pretty clear: a U.S. invasion and occupation plunges a Middle East nation into hell.  Iran is a Middle East nation.  Hmmm. 

I say good luck to Iran and its nuclear weapons program.  They will need all the strength they can muster to fight off U.S. and Israeli encroachments on their sovereignty.  The fear that Iran would launch a nuclear strike on Israel is ludicrous.   That would be like signing their own death warrant.

The only REAL thing at stake in this debate is this:  America wants to dictate to Iran and you don't dictate so easily to someone armed with nuclear weapons.  Tough shit.


How do you old and reoncile these two thoughts?
A)   The fear that Iran would launch a nuclear strike on Israel is ludicrous.   That would be like signing their own death warrant.


and
B) They will need all the strength they can muster to fight off U.S. and Israeli encroachments on their sovereignty. 


These two things cannot both be true can they?

_JS

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Re: Iran Could Have Nuclear Bomb in Three Years
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2007, 10:35:21 AM »
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What does iraq have to do with Iran having nuclear weapons? And what does it matter if pakistan has them when evaluating whether Iran, absent successful diplomatic efforts which the euro's worked at for years, should be allowed to possess the biggest WMD of all, wth their backing of terror in mind.

My point Bt was to show that insurgents and terrorists do not require anything like an atomic weapon to fight their battles. Iraq is a very good example of this. What was so sophisticated about September 11th? Box cutters? A few flight lessons? One of the reasons it was so successful was the simplicity. If you look at some of the most successful terrorist attacks, they were done without James Bond-esque master plots, but with very simple ideas: 9/11, Oklahoma City, Munich (well, it wasn't so much a success), Air India, Lockerbie, Manchester, Indian Parliament, OPEC kidnappings, etc.

The reason to look to Pakistan is to evaluate how to handle a nuclear armed Iran and to see why Iran might wish to have nuclear weapons. In typical American fashion we assume it is for us or Israel. What other reasons might they want it?

You're fighting a losing battle Bt. You want to keep everyone else in the world from using a sixty year-old technology. You think I like it? No. But how do you plan on preventing it? This is 2007, there is no great mystery to nuclear fission anymore. The third world has nuclear physicists just as we do. Each passing year the technology is older and easier to utilise. All that is lacking are the natural resources, but global capitalism and the free market has made that much less difficult to access as well.

So, you can spend your time holding back the tides or trying to bring these nations into a responsible world community.
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Michael Tee

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Re: Iran Could Have Nuclear Bomb in Three Years
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2007, 11:26:20 AM »
<<How do you old and reoncile these two thoughts?
<<A)   The fear that Iran would launch a nuclear strike on Israel is ludicrous.   That would be like signing their own death warrant.


<<and
<<B) They will need all the strength they can muster to fight off U.S. and Israeli encroachments on their sovereignty.

<<These two things cannot both be true can they?>>

The differeince is between (A) needlessly provoking a self-destructive rain of hellfire when the alternative is continuing to plod along with daily life under the Ayatollahs and (B) retaliating once the hell of American/Israeli aggression has already been unleashed upon them, when there is no peaceful existence to be sacrificed.  Since Americans are basically bullies and cowards who attack only those who they think can't fight back, a healthy little nuclear arsenal will go a long way towards making them look elsewhere to find somebody else's oil to steal.  Somebody who doesn't pack a nuclear punch. 

Sure, the Americans could nuke them into oblivion afterwards, but at what cost to themselves?  A nuke or two on American soil wouldn't come close to destroying the country, but it's more damage than they are prepared to absorb.



 
 
 

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Iran Could Have Nuclear Bomb in Three Years
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2007, 12:12:30 PM »
Israel is no threat to the territorial integrity of Iran. Israel is interested in annexing Palestine, and some of Syria, and conceivably pieces of Lebanon and Egypt.

Ahmedinejad is putting forth this campaign to develop nuclear technology to curry favor with the voters. Most Iranians are young people who admire technology greatly. Ahmedinejad is an engineer. Iran is developning modern technology rapidly.

It makes sense to Iranians to have nuclear power. The electrification of Iran has been a major thrust of the Islamic revolution.

Iranians are nationalistic, and do not wish to have their country ordered about by bullies, such as the US and the UK, both of whom have bullied them a lot in the past, and would like to do so in the future. Iranians want nuclear weapons because they will prevent Iran from being bullied about. Observe how hard it seems to be for anyone to bully poverty-stricken North Korea. Nukes make a BIG difference.

Israel is viewed as a surrogate bully of the US and has acted like one in the past. Most Iranians see Israel as a mean local bully and one of the main reasons the US and the UK have bullied Iran in the past. Iranian pilots were ordered by the Shah to bomb Egypt in the Yom Kippur War.

Israeli politicians are always squawlking about the Iranian threat because Iran is the largest and best-armed nation in the area.

Again, US and Israeli interests are not the same.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: Iran Could Have Nuclear Bomb in Three Years
« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2007, 12:19:02 PM »
<<How do you old and reoncile these two thoughts?
<<A)   The fear that Iran would launch a nuclear strike on Israel is ludicrous.   That would be like signing their own death warrant.


<<and
<<B) They will need all the strength they can muster to fight off U.S. and Israeli encroachments on their sovereignty.

<<These two things cannot both be true can they?>>

The differeince is between (A) needlessly provoking a self-destructive rain of hellfire when the alternative is continuing to plod along with daily life under the Ayatollahs and (B) retaliating once the hell of American/Israeli aggression has already been unleashed upon them, when there is no peaceful existence to be sacrificed.  Since Americans are basically bullies and cowards who attack only those who they think can't fight back, a healthy little nuclear arsenal will go a long way towards making them look elsewhere to find somebody else's oil to steal.  Somebody who doesn't pack a nuclear punch. 

Sure, the Americans could nuke them into oblivion afterwards, but at what cost to themselves?  A nuke or two on American soil wouldn't come close to destroying the country, but it's more damage than they are prepared to absorb.



 
 
 



Ok we are cowardly , and you have just made a good argument for attacking preemptively , they will never have less atomic wepon than they do right now. Presuming you right on every point there is no argument for waiting another minute before makeing it impossible for them to recover .