Author Topic: Slippery Slope  (Read 3727 times)

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Michael Tee

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Slippery Slope
« on: February 04, 2010, 08:04:29 PM »
http://news.antiwar.com/2010/02/03/blair-us-govt-can-kill-citizens-overseas-as-part-of-defined-policy/

U.S. Director of National Intelligence, Dennis Blair, "reassured" Americans today that the U.S. government will assassinate U.S. citizens abroad only if strict safeguards are followed.

Huh?

Strict safeguards?  I always thought the strict safeguards that prevented the government from offing its own citizens were trial by jury and appellate review. 

Well, looks like THAT'S gone out the window.  What's next?  "Dead is dead," as  BT likes to say.  What's the difference between offing an American citizen in Tijuana or offing him or her in San Diego?  I think we can all see what's coming next if the folks at National Security have their way.

This is out-rucking-fageous.  Don't any citizens speak out?  Or are they too chickenshit to utter a single peep?  This is the story of a lost freedom and as in Nazi Germany, the loss was due to fear.  It looks to me like an irreversible process.  Careful how you respond to this, people, don't say anything you wouldn't want to get back to the FBI.   There are snitches just waiting for that "dangerous" comment.

Plane

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Re: Slippery Slope
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2010, 08:06:34 PM »
There are several American citizens recruited to the Al Queda , if they would like to have a trial they had better make themselves easy to arrest , otherwise they are in combat .

Michael Tee

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Re: Slippery Slope
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2010, 08:09:35 PM »
<<There are several American citizens recruited to the Al Queda , if they would like to have a trial they had better make themselves easy to arrest , otherwise they are in combat .>>

Whatever Mr. Blair's "precautions" are, I don't think the attempted service of an arrest warrant in Yemen is one of them.  Some of these guys they don't WANT to have public trials in the U.S. because they don't like the idea of the U.S. public hearing what they have to say.  Dead men don't talk back to drones.

Michael Tee

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Re: Slippery Slope
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2010, 08:12:52 PM »
<<There are several American citizens recruited to the Al Queda , if they would like to have a trial they had better make themselves easy to arrest , otherwise they are in combat .>>

Besides, how can he be in combat if he doesn't carry a weapon?  What the hell does "in combat" mean?  Anything that the assassins want it to mean?  It's probably the U.S. military's version of the Nazi's phrase, "shot while resisting arrest."

plane are you seriously NOT concerned about these gangster tactics?  You think that the rule of law can be eroded like that, like it counts for nothing?

Plane

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Re: Slippery Slope
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2010, 08:14:42 PM »
<<There are several American citizens recruited to the Al Queda , if they would like to have a trial they had better make themselves easy to arrest , otherwise they are in combat .>>

Whatever Mr. Blair's "precautions" are, I don't think the attempted service of an arrest warrant in Yemen is one of them.  Some of these guys they don't WANT to have public trials in the U.S. because they don't like the idea of the U.S. public hearing what they have to say.  Dead men don't talk back to drones.


Great, then they need to submit themselves to arrest by authoritys that will try them nicely , I suggest the Hague.

Or they can take their chances in combat.


Were there not a few American citizens , British, French and Polish even Soviet citizens who joined the armies of Hitler?  What happened to them ?

Plane

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Re: Slippery Slope
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2010, 08:20:50 PM »
<<There are several American citizens recruited to the Al Queda , if they would like to have a trial they had better make themselves easy to arrest , otherwise they are in combat .>>

Besides, how can he be in combat if he doesn't carry a weapon?  What the hell does "in combat" mean?  Anything that the assassins want it to mean?  It's probably the U.S. military's version of the Nazi's phrase, "shot while resisting arrest."

plane are you seriously NOT concerned about these gangster tactics?  You think that the rule of law can be eroded like that, like it counts for nothing?

Lets look that up.


COMBAT, Eng. law. The form of a forcible encounter between two or more persons or bodies of men; an engagement or battle. A duel.


http://www.dictionary.net/combat


Due to the nature of the organisation and its tactics there is no frount line or DMZ , no holidays and no truces, Al Queda might attack at any time and might be attacked any hour by us , so is always in combat with us.

I hope very much that those tasked with this duty are responsible and carefull, I also hope they are successfull.

BSB

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Re: Slippery Slope
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2010, 08:22:30 PM »
I wouldn't worry about it bin Snowblower. We know you'll never be a member of Al Qaeda or any other group that would cost you you're ability to sit on your ass and play at life.

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Slippery Slope
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2010, 09:23:25 PM »
I dont care if we need to knock off some American that is a traitor.

If a guy is selling nukes to Al-KiLL-Ya who cares if he is American or not
blow his car up or send a snipers bullet dancing through his cerebellum.

"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Michael Tee

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Re: Slippery Slope
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2010, 09:35:05 PM »
<<I dont care if we need to knock off some American that is a traitor.

<<If a guy is selling nukes to Al-KiLL-Ya who cares if he is American or not
blow his car up or send a snipers bullet dancing through his cerebellum.>>

Yeah, but what about the concept of putting the guy on trial first with a judge and jury and the chance to defend himself?  That's an American tradition that's kinda been around awhile, isn't it?

You're for just junking the whole concept?  As of now?  If Dennis Blair says the guy's a traitor, that's good enough for you, just blow his fuckin head off?  Dennis Blair or his nameless underlings become the judge, jury, counsel and executioner all in one?

Inquiring minds need to know.

Plane

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Re: Slippery Slope
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2010, 10:11:53 PM »

Yeah, but what about the concept of putting the guy on trial first with a judge and jury and the chance to defend himself?  That's an American tradition that's kinda been around awhile, isn't it?




This is absolutely availible to the entire Al Queda , including Osama Bin Laden , it only requires that they surrender themselves to responsible authoritys.

I would reccomend US Marshals or RCMP who have a pretty good reputation for holding prisoners in comfort , but these guys are world travelers , so if they preferred a European trial they could turn themselves in at the Hague just as easily as they went to Africa or Asia.


Osama is really missing this trick, his right to a trial would make him a star at the biggest trial ever held in Europe , if only he had the courage to take advantage of it .

Rich

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Re: Slippery Slope
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2010, 10:25:16 PM »
Somewhere in that over flowing toilet of Mike's brain he pictures someone sitting in a cafe' sipping coffee when a smart bomb lands on top of his unsuspecting head. He is of course innocent in the swirling turd of Mike's brain. In reality America is taking out terrorists who threaten America. People like Mike. It doesn't matter if they're American or not. Hell, hopefully some of them are Canadian.

sirs

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Re: Slippery Slope
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2010, 10:32:11 PM »
<<I dont care if we need to knock off some American that is a traitor.

<<If a guy is selling nukes to Al-KiLL-Ya who cares if he is American or not
blow his car up or send a snipers bullet dancing through his cerebellum.>>


Yeah, but what about the concept of putting the guy on trial first with a judge and jury and the chance to defend himself?  That's an American tradition that's kinda been around awhile, isn't it?

See, here's that same disconnect that the current administration has with the rest of reality  (that Prince was somehow trying to allude to something that shall remain a mystery for now).  This is war, combat, bad guys with guns and other weapons trying to kill our guys, including innocent civilians.  If we can target and take a terrorist out, we do.  Be it via sniper or drone, simple as that.  Been doing it in every war & combat zone.  I recall General Yamamoto being shot down from the sky, no judge, no jury, no defense.  The tradition that Tee is talking about is that of CRIMINAL conduct.  NOT to be confused with conduct of enemy combatants in a war zone
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

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Re: Slippery Slope
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2010, 11:01:37 PM »
<<This is absolutely availible to the entire Al Queda , including Osama Bin Laden , it only requires that they surrender themselves to responsible authoritys.>>

Basically, my slippery slope comment referred specifically to the assassination of American citizens abroad by Dennis Blair or his employees.  Technically, the one American citizen who was killed by a drone attack in Yemen was in a car on a highway, driving from point A to point B.  There was no "combat" going on, no evidence even that the guy was armed for combat and it's only by the most twisted and artificial distortion of the plain meaning of words that it could be claimed the guy was in combat or even a "combatant" let alone an "enemy" combatant when he was a citizen of the United States of America.

And this citizen, deprived arbitrarily of a right to be informed of charges against him, of a fair trial and appellate review, was summarily put to death on the say-so of some civil servants who had determined [something] we don't know exactly what, and that he deserved to die. 

So I'll ask again, and hopefully get an answer that does not refer to OBL, does not refer to "enemy combatants" but to American citizens, is this how you think your government should deal with its citizens?  And also, if it can do this to them abroad, how much of a leap is it for them to acquire the power to do this to them within the borders of the U.S.A.?

<<I would reccomend US Marshals or RCMP who have a pretty good reputation for holding prisoners in comfort , but these guys are world travelers , so if they preferred a European trial they could turn themselves in at the Hague just as easily as they went to Africa or Asia.>>

And if you're dealing with domestic American criminals, is it OK to kill them on sight if they are dodging a court summons?  I mean, for people who mistrust the ability of the government to manage Social Security, to administer an efficient public health insurance scheme, to run General Motors, etc., you seem to have a huge amount of faith in these same bungling civil servants to determine life or death for an American citizen on the basis of whether or not he's a terrorist.  So I need to know, how come?  How is it that conservatives who don't trust the government to run an insurance company can entrust the lives of American citizens abroad to it?


<<Osama is really missing this trick, his right to a trial would make him a star at the biggest trial ever held in Europe , if only he had the courage to take advantage of it .>>

Osama doesn't believe in infidel law, only Koranic law.  If he submitted now to infidel law, he'd be betraying everything that he stood for and look like a schmuck to his followers.

Kramer

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Re: Slippery Slope
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2010, 11:03:18 PM »
Mikey, I'm OK with those types of assassinations but only when adults occupy the White House.

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Slippery Slope
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2010, 11:13:44 PM »
You're for just junking the whole concept?  As of now?

Michael are you not aware of Article One, Section 9 of the United States Constitution?

"The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases
of rebellion or invasion, the public safety may require it"


Michael we are at war....do you deny that?

Sometimes one must "junk it" for the time being....during war sometimes ya gotta do "whatever it takes".

On September 24, 1862, President Abraham Lincoln suspended habeas corpus.

In the early 1870s, President Ulysses S. Grant suspended habeas corpus.

« Last Edit: February 04, 2010, 11:15:28 PM by ChristiansUnited4LessGvt »
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987