Author Topic: New York to Tax the Rich  (Read 8723 times)

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BT

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Re: New York to Tax the Rich
« Reply #75 on: December 08, 2011, 11:45:27 PM »
Right now we are spending 24% of GDP Income taxes bring in 14% GDP.

Seems everything i have read says 18% both ways is the right number.

Question which is the best path to get us there and how much time do we have?




kimba1

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Re: New York to Tax the Rich
« Reply #76 on: December 09, 2011, 01:28:25 AM »
Hmm
Maybe spending cuts may not be needed at all. Awhile back i did help a friend of mine get money owed to the city. By checking out a museums expense records and found over 800k hold up in some account that the museum did not know existed. Remember most cases alot of money is not accounted for in government spending so it's very possible money would end up unaccounted for years.

We're all very much aware a lot of money flow into spending but not much oversite is done . But this require the reciever of funding to be fairly incompetent. What are the chances of a government dept. being that bad?

What I'm getting at ,an extensive audit may yeild some serious money and definately close down things
« Last Edit: December 09, 2011, 01:34:36 AM by kimba1 »

Plane

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Re: New York to Tax the Rich
« Reply #77 on: December 09, 2011, 01:34:16 AM »
How much bigger would GDP be if it were fettered less with taxes?

How much would increases in taxes cause the GDP to shrink?

It isn't really like cutting a pie, it is more like harvesting blood from a cow that you want to live through the experience.

The Masi drink blood and milk without reducing their heard, I suppose that after centuries of experience they know how to avoid weakening the cattle .

If I had to live on a blood and milk diet and tend the heard I might not know exactly how much harvesting I could get away with, but I think I would definately want to err on the side of caution and bleed them the least I could .

BT

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Re: New York to Tax the Rich
« Reply #78 on: December 09, 2011, 01:56:09 AM »
Kimba

I agree that a complete federal govt audit needs to happen including the federal reserve, preferably by an outside source.

Plane this chart might prove helpful


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Revenue_and_Expense_to_GDP_Chart_1993_-_2008.png



kimba1

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Re: New York to Tax the Rich
« Reply #79 on: December 09, 2011, 02:13:18 AM »
At least two sources and if any of the dept gets differing results from the two audits gets a complete overhaul. Don't waste money finding the problem. Just start over or get rid of it if deemed unneeded

Awhile back my town has many outreach programs for the homeless, taking massive amounts of tax money. But alot of these programs are empty because no homeless people qualify to be in them so they just draw money for no reason.

i'm willing to bet this is not a rare occurance.

BT

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Re: New York to Tax the Rich
« Reply #80 on: December 09, 2011, 02:35:54 AM »
Quote
i'm willing to bet this is not a rare occurrence.

Of course it isn't. best time to sell stuff to the govt is in sept. They have to spend budgetted funds by the end of the month or they may not get as much the next budget round.


kimba1

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Re: New York to Tax the Rich
« Reply #81 on: December 09, 2011, 02:47:24 AM »
I know a guy who nievely went underbudget. He's not around anymore.

sirs

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Re: New York to Tax the Rich
« Reply #82 on: December 09, 2011, 06:01:50 PM »
The article I was referring to earlier
----------------------------------------------

Are high-income taxpayers the enemy?

....Logically, therefore, those campus demonstrators should be praying for the much-despised one-percenters to enjoy big increases in their taxable incomes so that higher education appropriations could be increased and fees could decline.

Somehow, one doubts that will occur.

and here's another one along that theme of battling insanity

Brown counting on the 1 percent to save California
Governor wants to raise rates on the highest earners, who already pay nearly half of all income taxes and whose incomes can fluctuate wildly


California's budget is in a constant state of peril or, perhaps more accurately, a budgetary inferno, because of, as Gov. Jerry Brown accurately noted in his recent Open Letter to the People of California, "years of failing to match spending with tax revenues as budget gimmicks instead of honest budgeting became the norm." Ironically Brown's new proposal to raise tax revenue employs the same old approach to extract additional dollars from Californians rather than make tough, structural reforms and better steward existing resources.

It's has become almost cliché to say "California does not have a revenue problem, it has a spending problem," but the underlying issue is much more fragile than that. The state has a preferred source of money – high-income earners – but if Brown is successful in raising taxes on the state's wealthiest residents, he runs the risk of milking the source dry. He also rests his hopes for the state's long-term fiscal solvency on the most volatile incomes.

With great fanfare Gov. Brown this week announced his latest quick fix to save the state from further financial ruin with the predictable solution of a ballot initiative next year to raise taxes on residents of the Golden State. The proposal aims to raise $7 billion over five years by boosting the state sales tax for everyone and the income tax on people who make over $250,000 a year. The state may face a budget shortfall of $13 billion in fiscal 2012.

Increasing the sales tax, even modestly, hits consumers in all income brackets, many already reeling from the lagging economy. And raising taxes on the highest-income earners is even riskier business because it further concentrates the source of state income. The top 1 percent of income earners in California already account for nearly one-half of all revenue. And according to the state's nonpartisan Legislative Analyst Office, the portion of state taxes paid by that income bracket has fluctuated "from just above 30 percent in the early 1990s to nearly 50 percent in 2000 at the height of the tech boom."

The top 1 percent's "share of the personal income tax burden rises or falls with their share of taxable income," reports the LAO. "Compared to other taxpayers, this group reports proportionately much more business income and capital gains, which are far more volatile than wage and salary income." Relying so heavily on the highest earners further narrows the tax base and puts the state at the risk of further insolvency. It also makes budgetary planning more difficult.

Brown's proposal has rightly been met with instant opposition from business leaders, taxpayers groups and Republican legislators but governor Brown and his fellow Democrats and union allies have begun, already, stringing their violins claiming that if taxes are not increased schools will suffer and public safety programs will be cut – two arguments that usually resonate with Californians.

For Brown and his ilk the state faces a revenue shortage – that is, the state government is in "need" of more money to spend. But the real issue is that legislators and bureaucrats in Sacramento for too long have been poor stewards of taxpayer dollars.

The Legislature repeatedly has misfired by crafting budget plans based on one-time revenue – windfall tax collections from stock sales – assuming such revenues would continue year to year. The result has been huge budget shortfalls. Earlier this year when the state reported an $11.8 billion windfall, the state's finance director, Ana Matosantos, said the influx of cash was "almost entirely from the top 1 percent of earners," the Wall Street Journal reported.

New York Times bestselling author Robert Frank's book "The High Beta Rich" describes precisely how dysfunctional California's fiduciaries operate. He wrote that "the state would treat each year's windfall from the rich as a reoccurring income stream, allocating the long-term programs in education, health care, pensions or other areas."

But, Frank observed, "When the revenues from the rich dried up, the spending continued, leading to multibillion-dollar budget shortfalls."

Now, Gov, Brown is attempting to continue this dysfunctional tradition.

In the past, as Frank writes, state lawmakers "preferred to spend the money from the rich while they had it rather than worrying about its end." California voters ought to ponder this sad reality when considering the governor's tax plans.

The debate is not an ideological battle over tax increases. Instead it is about failed management of existing resources and poor understanding of the dynamics of state revenue. California legislators – Republican and Democrat – have perpetually failed to budget properly. Gov. Brown's latest proposal continues that legacy.

Article
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

kimba1

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Re: New York to Tax the Rich
« Reply #83 on: December 09, 2011, 11:13:05 PM »
san francisco USED to have alot of big companies headquatered here,but every single one that left did not move to a city in california it`s always to another state. remember california is a green state meaning even the lifestyle is abit more difficult.

I`ll ask again why live here?

BT

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Re: New York to Tax the Rich
« Reply #84 on: December 09, 2011, 11:51:56 PM »
Because for you, that is where home is.


sirs

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Re: New York to Tax the Rich
« Reply #85 on: December 10, 2011, 01:14:54 AM »
Home is where you hang your hat.  And thanks to CA politicians, more and more folks are hanging their hat elsewhere, taking both their businesses, jobs, and $$$'s with them, with more and more of the folks staying depending on that very Government to survive, if not working for them.

Neat little viscious cycle they have going
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: New York to Tax the Rich
« Reply #86 on: December 10, 2011, 01:26:24 AM »
Home is where family is, if memory serves, extended family in Kimba's case. Moving might not be as easy as moving your hat.

sirs

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Re: New York to Tax the Rich
« Reply #87 on: December 10, 2011, 01:34:41 AM »
Merely referencing where home is, that's all
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

kimba1

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Re: New York to Tax the Rich
« Reply #88 on: December 10, 2011, 01:41:34 AM »
I plan to leave s.f. in a few years but stay at a nearby suburb el ceriito.. I have a massive amount of family and friends living there. like everywhere else it has less business restrictions.. and no recycling penalties.but I`ll miss the food but not the big city paranoia. tired of watching myself around people. I`m not saying thiers no crime in el cerrito but you can relax more there than s.f..

oops and the arts. not many big museums in the burbs.

BT

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Re: New York to Tax the Rich
« Reply #89 on: December 10, 2011, 03:16:51 AM »
I lived in Hayward for a couple of years during the early 60's. East Bays OK