Author Topic: Can the West defeat the Islamist threat? 10 reasons why not  (Read 7722 times)

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The_Professor

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Can the West defeat the Islamist threat? 10 reasons why not
« on: October 07, 2006, 03:02:37 PM »
Can the West defeat the Islamist threat? 10 reasons why not.

1. The West lacks the will to survive. We make mountains out of trivial political issues, such as humiliating terrorists, and obsess instead about the rights of people who will cut our throats at the first opportunity. 9/11 has been relegated to historical movie status, not the wake up call it should have been. Too many Americans view the war with radical Islam as an inconvenience or a political problem and not something that concerns and threatens their very existence. A reality check is essential for survival.

2. The West is selfish and divided. Politics and party have become the priority and survival has been relegated to the closet. Politics no longer stops at the waters edge, but war has become a thing to manipulate for political advantage. The voters seem to not care that undermining the war effort for political gain is the order of the day, as long as their lifestyles aren’t compromised or discomfort brought down upon their heads. Our enemies and our politicians play that to their advantage. We have exposed to all our enemies, our soft divided underbelly and naively expect that they will but rub it for us.

3. The West is too open and too naive about war. We have lost our smarts about what a war is. War is not a made for TV movie with a pre-written script. The other side writes its own game plan, while we foolishly and openly talk of withdrawal schedules. The same people who demand such schedules would react in horror were their favorite coach to announce the play he is going to use next. Mistakes are always made in war. It is in correcting and adjusting, that victory comes about, but never without a will to survive, and that means a will to fight and die in the first place. Supporting out troops means stifling our open disagreements about details. Enough with the armchair generals, and the neutral, but biased media - we have lost our sense of the evil of treason.

4. The West is illiterate about faith and martyrdom. It is essential to know your enemy. For liberals to continue to preach multicultural moral equivalency is, but evidence that we act in ignorance of the seriousness of the enemy’s intent and will to die for his cause. Islam, as understood by these radicals, is not a religion of country club requirements and manners. Failing to comprehend what drives this enemy is a guaranteed road to defeat.

5. The West is reactive not proactive. It is failing for reasons of domestic political caution, to prepare for international war. It only looks backward such as the current fascination with who caused 9/11, Bush or Clinton, as if we’re in denial that the simple unaltered fact is that we were attacked not once on 9/11, but many times by radical Islamists. They have openly declared war on our nation and have pledged to eradicate each of us while we lack sufficient concern to prepare to fight the most difficult battle of this country’s existence. We have failed to mobilize the major elements of a society at serious war. For example, we fail, for political reasons, to reinstitute the draft and the types of things necessary to engage the enemy fully, as we go about our daily business wondering, or even actually debating, if attacking the terrorists over there is better than waiting to have them over here.

6. The West refuses to become energy independent. The fuel of radical Islam is our petrol-dollars. No war can be fought successfully when the enemy controls the energy and our economy through our own continued foolish choices - choices we make because of a paralyzing political fear of radicalized environmental worship. Russia, Venezuela, and the Mid-east oil producers can be counted on to close us off in a second should it be thought by them to be to their advantage. Undermining and bringing down super-power America is already their desire. All that is necessary is the minutest turn of events. The eminent war with radicalized Islam offers much more than minute potential, when it comes to affording them opportunity. Energy is victory and lack of sufficient energy is defeat. Our domestic eco-politics have chosen to aid the enemy.

7. Our borders are sieves and remain waiting conduits for subversive entry and terrorist activity. Moats weren’t invented because of curiosity or convention. They were created, because in an evil world, the enemy and the danger he presents needs to be kept out of people’s homes. The Trojan Horse mentality we play with our open borders is suicidal. Again, domestic politics by both parties, not security, is the priority that drives our border policy. A policy, I would predict, that history may very well write in chapter one of, How Great Nations Have Fallen (In Arabic of course).

8. The moral case for war. Though we debate about Iraq and the War on Terror, we really have not as a nation, understood and accepted the moral case to fight radical Islam on the moral level that they fight us. We have lost the concept of it being of the highest morality to defend oneself. In a day where WMDs are available and petrol dollars and sophisticated weaponry are funneled to radical regimes or Jihadists, morality requires that we either surrender or capitulate to radical Islam, or we fight. We have failed to make the case for fighting evil to the nation and we have failed to win agreement by both political parties about that core concept. Instead, we play gottcha politics with details and nuance.

9. Propaganda. We fail to use it to bolster our unity and to undermine our enemy’s unity and cohesiveness. Perhaps we need to use propaganda in Islam to question the goodness of a God that allows for a faith that is spread by the sword, and a faith that chooses such weapons of conversion as dynamite belts on innocent young Muslims. We need to drop our fear of cartoon type reactions and control our multicultural sensitivities when they interfere with our action in this vital area. We need to use propaganda to rally Americans around the need for a common loyalty over and above, lesser things such as ethnicity, class status, and party affiliation, that we may survive as a nation, not a land of competing special interest groups.

10. We lack the decency of a moral society worth fighting for. Beyond the biological urge to survive, there is a moral level that man is able to attain that needs and deserves protection and recognition. When both parties squabble about how much innocent life is moral to take or use for our pleasure, or health, when we laugh at those who believe and live in compliance with nature’s God, we lose our moral authority to fight wars. When we deliberately in the name of liberty, confuse good and evil in order to manipulate and control the minds of the masses, we invite evil and lose the sole basis for fighting any war.

A society that believes man is incapable of evil is in its death throes. A society that fails to recognize evil is already dead. A country that does battle for neither good nor evil is doomed to lose that battle.

If we fight just to protect our culture of death or our radical materialism, be it for hedonist, capitalist, or consumer, we fight for a hollow cause, for mankind chooses to die for great and noble causes. Islamists understand that. We had better learn it or live to regret it.


domer

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Re: Can the West defeat the Islamist threat? 10 reasons why not
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2006, 03:20:32 PM »
Tell me, Professor, how do we fight?

sirs

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Re: Can the West defeat the Islamist threat? 10 reasons why not
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2006, 06:41:08 PM »
Interesting thought provoking piece, Professor.  Thanks for sharing it
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

The_Professor

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Re: Can the West defeat the Islamist threat? 10 reasons why not
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2006, 08:57:50 PM »
Domer, that indeed is na interesting question. Why don't we all think about it and post some suggestions, all right?

Universe Prince

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Re: Can the West defeat the Islamist threat? 10 reasons why not
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2006, 12:31:33 AM »
Who wrote that particular bit of adult male bovine excrement?
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Can the West defeat the Islamist threat? 10 reasons why not
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2006, 01:05:30 AM »
The Islamists have THE SAME RIGHTS to run their own countries as we do ours.

The problem is not that our oil is undert their sand.

It is not the "Liberals" who have kept the US from energy independence, it is Big Oil. Energy independence will no be on oil, but on solar, possibly wind energy for out own individual homes (half the electricity is LOST in the transmission lines).

This war was provoked by the big international oil companies, and they are no more loyal to the US than to any other market.
It was Olebush that stupidly stationed troops in Saudi Arabia, and the dolts in the Defense Dept that allowed military wives and personnel to run about Saudi Arabia passing out Christian testaments and other evangelical nonsense.


Stating that "staying the course" is dumb when it is obvious that said course leads over a precipice is not treason: it is patriotism of the highest order.

Face it: we have been cursed with an administration of profiteering, incompetent, religious nutball, sanctimonious warmongering imperialists; the sooner we throw their sorry asses out in the street, the better. If a gigantic mob of enraged and indignant citizens were to pull Juniorbush, Cheney, Rummy, Condi and the rest of their doltish crew out of their cushy offices and drown them on prime-time TV in the Reflecting Pool, it would improve this country greatly, because never again would cowardly chickenhawk assholes dare to screw over the American people again.
 
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

The_Professor

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Re: Can the West defeat the Islamist threat? 10 reasons why not
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2006, 01:17:13 AM »
UP, I believe I found it in The Times of London.  Why is it bovine exrement?

Michael Tee

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Re: Can the West defeat the Islamist threat? 10 reasons why not
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2006, 02:31:07 AM »
Can the West defeat the Islamist threat? 10 reasons why not.

1. The West lacks the will to survive. We make mountains out of trivial political issues, such as humiliating terrorists, and obsess instead about the rights of people who will cut our throats at the first opportunity.

I thought that a concern for human dignity and human rights was one of the defining characteristics of the West.  If the West junks its basic defining characteristics, it won't have to wait for a conqueror, it will already have ceased to exist.

9/11 has been relegated to historical movie status, not the wake up call it should have been. Too many Americans view the war with radical Islam as an inconvenience or a political problem

Which is exactly what it is . .

and not something that concerns and threatens their very existence. A reality check is essential for survival.

Statistically, you're thousands of times more likely to be killed by a drunk driver than a "terrorist," so maybe those "too many" Americans have it exactly right, whereas the kook (more likely a Mossad operative or dupe) who wrote the article might as well have been smoking dope.

2. The West is selfish and divided.   Politics and party have become the priority and survival has been relegated to the closet.

"Survival" isn't relegated to anybody's closet in real life, but in real life, there's no issue of survival when there's no real threat. 

Politics no longer stops at the waters edge, but war has become a thing to manipulate for political advantage. The voters seem to not care that undermining the war effort for political gain is the order of the day, as long as their lifestyles aren’t compromised or discomfort brought down upon their heads.

"Politics stops at the water's edge" is a maxim that applies when there is a real threat to the country.  Most people instinctively understand that in the wake of one massive attack by about all of twenty fanatics on American soil, the "War of Civilizations" has been a kind of one-sided war of Americans invading Muslim countries, and not the other way round.  In the absence of any real threat to America, politics will continue as usual between, on the one hand,  those who invent spurious reasons to attack Muslim countries to the great joy of the state of Israel and to no other apparent end and on the other hand those whe believe Americans should stop fucking with the Muslim world and let the people of that region solve their own intractable problems
.
Our enemies and our politicians play that to their advantage. We have exposed to all our enemies, our soft divided underbelly and naively expect that they will but rub it for us.

Well, your soft exposed underbelly must be extraordinarily unappetizing, because in the four years since the WTC attacks, nobody has bothered to take a bite out of it.

3. The West is too open and too naive about war. We have lost our smarts about what a war is. War is not a made for TV movie with a pre-written script.

HOLY SHIT!!!  HOLD THE PRESSES!!!  THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING!!!  Who knew?

The other side writes its own game plan, while we foolishly and openly talk of withdrawal schedules.
The same people who demand such schedules would react in horror were their favorite coach to announce the play he is going to use next.


But - - maybe if football players were carried off the field in body bags after every play, the same people who talk about withdrawal schedules from Iraq wouldn't be all that horrified to hear the coach's plan to pull the team out.  Especially if they knew any of the players.  [Hilarious - - one minute the guy is bitching about how "naive" the West is about war, and in the next breath, he's compared it to something as innocuous as a football game.  Un-fucking-believable]

Mistakes are always made in war. It is in correcting and adjusting, that victory comes about, but never without a will to survive, and that means a will to fight and die in the first place.

That's why sane and normal people think that you don't go to war casually in the first place - - you know, like, "ooops!  thought you were hiding weapons of mass destruction on us.  Sorry!"  Sane and normal people go to war as a LAST RESORT, not for hi-falutin' academic nonsense about a "War of Civilizations" ( which turns out to be about a few thousand fanatics on the one hand and the United States of America on the other.)

Supporting out troops means stifling our open disagreements about details.

"Supporting our troops"   Your troops aren't an independent entity with an independent mission of their own choosing, who need your support.  In a democracy, the army is the INSTRUMENT of the people, to be sent where the people tell it to go, to kill whoever the people tell it to kill, and to stop killing and come home whenever the people tell it to do so.  The army doesn't make the policy or choose the objectives.  The army supports the nation, it is not the other way round.  They do what the people tell them to do, and in a democracy, "the people" means the will of the people expressed by their elected representatives, whom the people are perfectly free to petition to change any policy any time.  Whoever wrote this piece of dreck (shit) has NO understanding or concern for democratic principles OR the way things are supposed to be done in America under the Constitution.  But he IS awfully concerned about one thing, and that is to keep America on the attack against the Arab world.  [For whose sake?  America's?  or . . . ?]   He's playing with fire.  In attempting to advance his own hidden objectives (probably those of the State of Israel) he's appealing to the most dangerous element in American life - - fascists and militarists, America's extreme right.  These people are a bigger threat to America and American values than all the "terrorists" in the world.

Enough with the armchair generals, and the neutral, but biased media - we have lost our sense of the evil of treason.

This is exactly what I am talking about.  The day will come - - if people who write this kind of garbage have their way - - when opposition to the war effort will quite simply be characterized as treason.  The penalty for treason is death.  You think "Islamofascism" is the threat to America?  People, you have just SEEN the threat to America.

. . .  well, there's more to the article.  Much, much, much more.  Endless more.  Endless drivel.  Bovine excrement, as one of our more perceptive readers characterized it.   But I've seen enough.  Someone once said, "When you strike oil, stop drilling."  I'm gonna stop drilling.

Amianthus

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Re: Can the West defeat the Islamist threat? 10 reasons why not
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2006, 11:11:37 AM »
half the electricity is LOST in the transmission lines

Is this another one of your "obvious" facts that is incorrect?

Last estimates I heard of power line loss in the US grid was 7.2% - nowhere near 50%.

http://climatetechnology.gov/library/2003/tech-options/tech-options-1-3-2.pdf
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

The_Professor

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Re: Can the West defeat the Islamist threat? 10 reasons why not
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2006, 02:43:43 PM »
1. The West lacks the will to survive. We make mountains out of trivial political issues, such as humiliating terrorists, and obsess instead about the rights of people who will cut our throats at the first opportunity. 9/11 has been relegated to historical movie status, not the wake up call it should have been. Too many Americans view the war with radical Islam as an inconvenience or a political problem and not something that concerns and threatens their very existence. A reality check is essential for survival.

Perhaps hyperbole. It is unclear to me at least that the danger is as severe as portryaed here. That being said, we could disengage in the middle east and then, instead of sitting back and not paying attention, pay close attention and see what happens therein. Watch for any trends, if they exist. Act accordingly.
2. The West is selfish and divided. Politics and party have become the priority and survival has been relegated to the closet. Politics no longer stops at the waters edge, but war has become a thing to manipulate for political advantage. The voters seem to not care that undermining the war effort for political gain is the order of the day, as long as their lifestyles aren’t compromised or discomfort brought down upon their heads. Our enemies and our politicians play that to their advantage. We have exposed to all our enemies, our soft divided underbelly and naively expect that they will but rub it for us.

No question that sometimes we pay too much attention to Party instead of policy. Easy to do as it is the path of least resistance. The author presupposes that a withdrawel from Iraq would cause irreparable harm. I might have said that in the beginning of this "occupation", but now after watching current events, it is simply not so. If we stay one more day or one more decade, the results after we leave will still be the same: anarchy. Therefore, who have we helped?

3. The West is too open and too naive about war. We have lost our smarts about what a war is. War is not a made for TV movie with a pre-written script. The other side writes its own game plan, while we foolishly and openly talk of withdrawal schedules. The same people who demand such schedules would react in horror were their favorite coach to announce the play he is going to use next. Mistakes are always made in war. It is in correcting and adjusting, that victory comes about, but never without a will to survive, and that means a will to fight and die in the first place. Supporting out troops means stifling our open disagreements about details. Enough with the armchair generals, and the neutral, but biased media - we have lost our sense of the evil of treason.

Public discourse about the conduct of the war is one of the greatest benefits of democracy. There are some exceptions, but what really defines "comfort ot the enemy" should be a short list.

4. The West is illiterate about faith and martyrdom. It is essential to know your enemy. For liberals to continue to preach multicultural moral equivalency is, but evidence that we act in ignorance of the seriousness of the enemy’s intent and will to die for his cause. Islam, as understood by these radicals, is not a religion of country club requirements and manners. Failing to comprehend what drives this enemy is a guaranteed road to defeat.

How can ANYONE disagree with this statement? This multicultural feldercarb is just that. I know, I know, you liberals will disagree, but you are also wrong.
5. The West is reactive not proactive. It is failing for reasons of domestic political caution, to prepare for international war. It only looks backward such as the current fascination with who caused 9/11, Bush or Clinton, as if we’re in denial that the simple unaltered fact is that we were attacked not once on 9/11, but many times by radical Islamists. They have openly declared war on our nation and have pledged to eradicate each of us while we lack sufficient concern to prepare to fight the most difficult battle of this country’s existence. We have failed to mobilize the major elements of a society at serious war. For example, we fail, for political reasons, to reinstitute the draft and the types of things necessary to engage the enemy fully, as we go about our daily business wondering, or even actually debating, if attacking the terrorists over there is better than waiting to have them over here.

We should have never stopped the draft, for many reasons. One reason which liberals failed to consider was that a draft subjects ALL to the same conditions and training. In fact, (and I am sure this will stir the pot), I have always advocated EVERYONE should serve two years of universal service after high school. It doesn't have to be military. Go biuild park benches along the Appalachian Trail, work in a Hospital, construct parks for the common good, etc. A side effect of this will be to instill a certain levle of discipline and maturity in young people as well as a sense of "we are all in this together, one society".

6. The West refuses to become energy independent. The fuel of radical Islam is our petrol-dollars. No war can be fought successfully when the enemy controls the energy and our economy through our own continued foolish choices - choices we make because of a paralyzing political fear of radicalized environmental worship. Russia, Venezuela, and the Mid-east oil producers can be counted on to close us off in a second should it be thought by them to be to their advantage. Undermining and bringing down super-power America is already their desire. All that is necessary is the minutest turn of events. The eminent war with radicalized Islam offers much more than minute potential, when it comes to affording them opportunity. Energy is victory and lack of sufficient energy is defeat. Our domestic eco-politics have chosen to aid the enemy.

I totally concur with this. We should immediatley insititute steps to become energy independent, regardless of the short term cost. Go ahead, charge me $50 a gallon as long as steps are taken so we do not have to be dependent upon others for energy.7. Our borders are sieves and remain waiting conduits for subversive entry and terrorist activity. Moats weren’t invented because of curiosity or convention. They were created, because in an evil world, the enemy and the danger he presents needs to be kept out of people’s homes. The Trojan Horse mentality we play with our open borders is suicidal. Again, domestic politics by both parties, not security, is the priority that drives our border policy. A policy, I would predict, that history may very well write in chapter one of, How Great Nations Have Fallen (In Arabic of course).

I concur with the premsie, but the implementation is entirely a different sory. For example, I do not believe it is possible to stop the flow from Mexico. A taller fence with all the technology in the world won't stop 'em. They'll create tunnels, go around in boats, whatever it takes. Does anyone know how to really stop tihs flow? Oh, and do not tell me to create jobs south of the border. Remember that good ole NAFTA? Terrible idea. No positive effect for us.

8. The moral case for war. Though we debate about Iraq and the War on Terror, we really have not as a nation, understood and accepted the moral case to fight radical Islam on the moral level that they fight us. We have lost the concept of it being of the highest morality to defend oneself. In a day where WMDs are available and petrol dollars and sophisticated weaponry are funneled to radical regimes or Jihadists, morality requires that we either surrender or capitulate to radical Islam, or we fight. We have failed to make the case for fighting evil to the nation and we have failed to win agreement by both political parties about that core concept. Instead, we play gottcha politics with details and nuance.

Is there a moral case for preemptive action? Perhaps, but in the case of Iraq....

9. Propaganda. We fail to use it to bolster our unity and to undermine our enemy’s unity and cohesiveness. Perhaps we need to use propaganda in Islam to question the goodness of a God that allows for a faith that is spread by the sword, and a faith that chooses such weapons of conversion as dynamite belts on innocent young Muslims. We need to drop our fear of cartoon type reactions and control our multicultural sensitivities when they interfere with our action in this vital area. We need to use propaganda to rally Americans around the need for a common loyalty over and above, lesser things such as ethnicity, class status, and party affiliation, that we may survive as a nation, not a land of competing special interest groups.

We are simply terrible at using propaganda to our advantage (see Vietnam for example).
10. We lack the decency of a moral society worth fighting for. Beyond the biological urge to survive, there is a moral level that man is able to attain that needs and deserves protection and recognition. When both parties squabble about how much innocent life is moral to take or use for our pleasure, or health, when we laugh at those who believe and live in compliance with nature’s God, we lose our moral authority to fight wars. When we deliberately in the name of liberty, confuse good and evil in order to manipulate and control the minds of the masses, we invite evil and lose the sole basis for fighting any war.

Good point, but so?

A society that believes man is incapable of evil is in its death throes. A society that fails to recognize evil is already dead. A country that does battle for neither good nor evil is doomed to lose that battle.
So true. Fighting for the sake of fighting won't cut it.

If we fight just to protect our culture of death or our radical materialism, be it for hedonist, capitalist, or consumer, we fight for a hollow cause, for mankind chooses to die for great and noble causes. Islamists understand that. We had better learn it or live to regret it.

Who can disagree with this statement?

Universe Prince

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Re: Can the West defeat the Islamist threat? 10 reasons why not
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2006, 04:29:42 PM »

Why is it bovine exrement?


Because it's asinine, self-righteous fantasy. Let us count the ways.


1. The West lacks the will to survive. We make mountains out of trivial political issues, such as humiliating terrorists, and obsess instead about the rights of people who will cut our throats at the first opportunity. 9/11 has been relegated to historical movie status, not the wake up call it should have been. Too many Americans view the war with radical Islam as an inconvenience or a political problem and not something that concerns and threatens their very existence. A reality check is essential for survival.


Where to begin? The "war with radical Islam" does not threaten our very existence. It does, however, threaten our liberty in that it seems to be prompting the government to find new ways to ignore basic rights. And speaking of rights, concern about the rights of human beings, even if they are Islamic fundamentalists, is not trivial. It is one of the things that should be separating us from them, one of the things that makes us the good guys. To toss such considerations aside is not a sign of strength or will to survive, but rather of ignorance and stupidity.


2. The West is selfish and divided. Politics and party have become the priority and survival has been relegated to the closet. Politics no longer stops at the waters edge, but war has become a thing to manipulate for political advantage. The voters seem to not care that undermining the war effort for political gain is the order of the day, as long as their lifestyles aren’t compromised or discomfort brought down upon their heads. Our enemies and our politicians play that to their advantage. We have exposed to all our enemies, our soft divided underbelly and naively expect that they will but rub it for us.


When has war ever not been a thing to manipulate for political advantage? How old is the author of this article that he or she thinks this is new? And this "undermining the war effort" bit, do I even have to explain why that accusation is stupid? I realize some folks would be happier if we had some sort of national cry of bloodlust so that we could all be united in the "war on terror", but expressing concern about the correctness and the morality of our military action is not a bad thing or even a weakness.


3. The West is too open and too naive about war. We have lost our smarts about what a war is. War is not a made for TV movie with a pre-written script. The other side writes its own game plan, while we foolishly and openly talk of withdrawal schedules. The same people who demand such schedules would react in horror were their favorite coach to announce the play he is going to use next. Mistakes are always made in war. It is in correcting and adjusting, that victory comes about, but never without a will to survive, and that means a will to fight and die in the first place. Supporting out troops means stifling our open disagreements about details. Enough with the armchair generals, and the neutral, but biased media - we have lost our sense of the evil of treason.


The author has lost his sense of what treason actually is. Or maybe just lost his sense. Like the bit where the author equates a will to survive with a will to fight and die. As if the only means of survival ever is to fight and die. And if the author is so eager to fight and die, why is he sitting around writing columns for The Times of London? Or wherever you found this list. Anyway, someone should point out to the author that the means of human survival is for people to work together in an environment of liberty and peace, not seeing how many people we can kill. And no, supporting our troops does not mean stifling our open disagreements. Supposedly they're fighting to protect our freedoms. Well, here's a clue: one of those freedoms is the freedom to openly criticize the government. Can you say First Amendment?


4. The West is illiterate about faith and martyrdom. It is essential to know your enemy. For liberals to continue to preach multicultural moral equivalency is, but evidence that we act in ignorance of the seriousness of the enemy’s intent and will to die for his cause. Islam, as understood by these radicals, is not a religion of country club requirements and manners. Failing to comprehend what drives this enemy is a guaranteed road to defeat.


And here all this time I thought the conservative folks held the position that we didn't need to care about why the terrorists are driven to want to kill us. We don't need to understand them, or so I keep hearing. We don't need to know why they hate us, or so people keep saying. But here is the author of this didactic list is saying we need to comprehend what drives the enemy. Anyway, I doubt the West is as ignorant about faith and martyrdom as the author seems to think.


5. The West is reactive not proactive. It is failing for reasons of domestic political caution, to prepare for international war. It only looks backward such as the current fascination with who caused 9/11, Bush or Clinton, as if we’re in denial that the simple unaltered fact is that we were attacked not once on 9/11, but many times by radical Islamists. They have openly declared war on our nation and have pledged to eradicate each of us while we lack sufficient concern to prepare to fight the most difficult battle of this country’s existence. We have failed to mobilize the major elements of a society at serious war. For example, we fail, for political reasons, to reinstitute the draft and the types of things necessary to engage the enemy fully, as we go about our daily business wondering, or even actually debating, if attacking the terrorists over there is better than waiting to have them over here.


More comments that make me wonder why the author isn't busy enlisting or already toting a weapon in Iraq. The most difficult battle of this country's existence? I'd laugh, but I think he really believes it.


6. The West refuses to become energy independent. The fuel of radical Islam is our petrol-dollars. No war can be fought successfully when the enemy controls the energy and our economy through our own continued foolish choices - choices we make because of a paralyzing political fear of radicalized environmental worship. Russia, Venezuela, and the Mid-east oil producers can be counted on to close us off in a second should it be thought by them to be to their advantage. Undermining and bringing down super-power America is already their desire. All that is necessary is the minutest turn of events. The eminent war with radicalized Islam offers much more than minute potential, when it comes to affording them opportunity. Energy is victory and lack of sufficient energy is defeat. Our domestic eco-politics have chosen to aid the enemy.


That is utter nonsense. We have no way to achieve energy independence. And even if we could, that would be exactly the wrong plan. You want to see this country struggle to maintain itself, then by all means, let's throttle our most profitable corporations and drive the cost of fuel, energy and the cost of living sky high. Oh yeah, that's a great plan... (That last bit was sarcasm.)


7. Our borders are sieves and remain waiting conduits for subversive entry and terrorist activity. Moats weren’t invented because of curiosity or convention. They were created, because in an evil world, the enemy and the danger he presents needs to be kept out of people’s homes. The Trojan Horse mentality we play with our open borders is suicidal. Again, domestic politics by both parties, not security, is the priority that drives our border policy. A policy, I would predict, that history may very well write in chapter one of, How Great Nations Have Fallen (In Arabic of course).


You knew from the start of the column that the xenophobia has to make an appearance somewhere. It's like a rule or something, ranting about America's lack of seriousness toward the "war on terror" must include comments about how our open borders are just asking for terrorists to sneak in an kill us all. Again we have a nonsense idea. Shutting down our borders is an almost unachievable goal and entirely short sighted. Not only would it harm businesses, it would damage our relations with other countries. If we are truly in a fight for survival, shutting out our neighbors, particularly when it would have a negative effect on our economy, is not something we need to be doing.


8. The moral case for war. Though we debate about Iraq and the War on Terror, we really have not as a nation, understood and accepted the moral case to fight radical Islam on the moral level that they fight us. We have lost the concept of it being of the highest morality to defend oneself. In a day where WMDs are available and petrol dollars and sophisticated weaponry are funneled to radical regimes or Jihadists, morality requires that we either surrender or capitulate to radical Islam, or we fight. We have failed to make the case for fighting evil to the nation and we have failed to win agreement by both political parties about that core concept. Instead, we play gottcha politics with details and nuance.


Fight the terrorists on the moral level they fight us? One would hope we would maintain a higher level of morality than that. Defending oneself is fine, but attacking other people first is not. Initiating the violence is one of the immoral things the terrorists do that make them squarely in the wrong. If we fight on the same moral level, then we're not fighting a moral war.


9. Propaganda. We fail to use it to bolster our unity and to undermine our enemy’s unity and cohesiveness. Perhaps we need to use propaganda in Islam to question the goodness of a God that allows for a faith that is spread by the sword, and a faith that chooses such weapons of conversion as dynamite belts on innocent young Muslims. We need to drop our fear of cartoon type reactions and control our multicultural sensitivities when they interfere with our action in this vital area. We need to use propaganda to rally Americans around the need for a common loyalty over and above, lesser things such as ethnicity, class status, and party affiliation, that we may survive as a nation, not a land of competing special interest groups.


While I agree that we should find a way to encourage Muslims to question the more militant aspects of the religion, I doubt we're going to get there via Western propaganda. But my major problem here is the notion of propaganda to promote national unity. However fascist the Islamic terrorists might seem, the last thing we need is a campaign to promote people submerging their individuality into the concept of national unity. We need more individualism, not less.


10. We lack the decency of a moral society worth fighting for. Beyond the biological urge to survive, there is a moral level that man is able to attain that needs and deserves protection and recognition. When both parties squabble about how much innocent life is moral to take or use for our pleasure, or health, when we laugh at those who believe and live in compliance with nature’s God, we lose our moral authority to fight wars. When we deliberately in the name of liberty, confuse good and evil in order to manipulate and control the minds of the masses, we invite evil and lose the sole basis for fighting any war.

A society that believes man is incapable of evil is in its death throes. A society that fails to recognize evil is already dead. A country that does battle for neither good nor evil is doomed to lose that battle.

If we fight just to protect our culture of death or our radical materialism, be it for hedonist, capitalist, or consumer, we fight for a hollow cause, for mankind chooses to die for great and noble causes. Islamists understand that. We had better learn it or live to regret it.


And finally we come to the real reason for this list to exist: moralistic condemnation of anyone who does not share the author's apparently religious beliefs. This is the point where, if I were to take the author seriously, the entire list would have become somewhat frightening. He (or she) has talked about the morality of war, the need to oppose evil, and the need for national unity over the desires of individuals. And now we have the evil in our midst component. A nice recipe for starting a cult or a fascist political movement.

Either way, the whole thing is adult male bovine excrement.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

The_Professor

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Re: Can the West defeat the Islamist threat? 10 reasons why not
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2006, 04:47:46 PM »
"...That is utter nonsense. We have no way to achieve energy independence. And even if we could, that would be exactly the wrong plan. You want to see this country struggle to maintain itself, then by all means, let's throttle our most profitable corporations and drive the cost of fuel, energy and the cost of living sky high. Oh yeah, that's a great plan... (That last bit was sarcasm.)"

UP, you and I agree on much, but I think here we disagree. Perhaps I can sway you over the "light side", or is it the "dark side"? lol

It is not only imperative but essential that we as a nation become energy independent. Why? We need to for national security reasons. And, because it is the right thing to do, namely, God let us as guardians of the Earth. Let's stop raping it, shall we? Do you agree? If so, then let's do what we need to achieve this. We must! For a start, let's bring back the energy initatives in the Carter Administration. Tax credtis for solar and alternative energy systems/products/installations. Increased R&D on geothermal, more efficient hydroelectric...well, the list goes on. I postulate that if the will is strong enough, it is amazing what can happen. An example: over a decade ago, the Government forced the automobile ondistry to dramatrically increase their MPG. The automobile industry swore they couldn't. They went back and forth but the Government was firm. Guess what? It worked. MPG increased. Now perhaps we do not to force this R&D, but offer incentives. Real ones. Offer $5M to the first firm to come up with a solar energy system for a home that is 500% better than current, as only one example (I'm not really sure what the current state of this technology is). Let's incentive oursleves into energy independece. Also, in a parallel vein, let's encourgage people to conserve. If you use less than you used this time last year, thne you get a rebate or something similiar. Increase R&D in nuclear energy. Pump serious R&D funding into cold fusion and on and on.

Do you agree?

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Can the West defeat the Islamist threat? 10 reasons why not
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2006, 05:52:17 PM »
Last estimates I heard of power line loss in the US grid was 7.2% - nowhere near 50%.

http://climatetechnology.gov/library/2003/tech-options/tech-options-1-3-2.pdf

Your estimates, are quite simply WRONG. IT's UP to 50%, and depends on the distance beween the generating plant and the consumer. But even if what you are saying is exactly true, rather than bogus, 7.2% is still an amount that need not be lost if the electricity is generated on your roof rather than shunted along the power lines.

You are not going to get accurate figures from the industry, since they benefit from bogus figures. Everyone conected with the energy are speciaiists in bogosity. Lying is what they do best.

The fact is that we could save a huge amount of energy by using solar and wind power, and we don't, because the industry will not allow it.

It is always a bad idea to ask the barber if you need a haircut.
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Amianthus

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Re: Can the West defeat the Islamist threat? 10 reasons why not
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2006, 06:10:58 PM »
Your estimates, are quite simply WRONG. IT's UP to 50%, and depends on the distance beween the generating plant and the consumer. But even if what you are saying is exactly true, rather than bogus, 7.2% is still an amount that need not be lost if the electricity is generated on your roof rather than shunted along the power lines.

Losses from power conversion are a plain fact of physics. There are losses between your roof and the inside of your house as well.

So, where is your evidence that the losses are 50%?
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Amianthus

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Re: Can the West defeat the Islamist threat? 10 reasons why not
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2006, 07:06:21 PM »
You are not going to get accurate figures from the industry, since they benefit from bogus figures. Everyone conected with the energy are speciaiists in bogosity. Lying is what they do best.

Oh yeah, and BTW (since you apparently didn't notice), that was a government report, and not an industry report.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)