Author Topic: "When Corporations Hate Markets"  (Read 3148 times)

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Universe Prince

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"When Corporations Hate Markets"
« on: November 10, 2008, 03:42:21 PM »
Cato Unbound is hosting a discussion "on corporatism and its relationship to free-market advocacy." Matthew Yglesias, Steven Horwitz and Dean Baker will all have essays as part of this discussion posted as the week progresses. The lead essay by Roderick Long is up now. An excerpt:
         So where does this idea come from that advocates of free-market libertarianism must be carrying water for big business interests? Whence the pervasive conflation of corporatist plutocracy with libertarian laissez-faire? Who is responsible for promoting this confusion?

There are three different groups that must shoulder their share of the blame. (Note: in speaking of “blame” I am not necessarily saying that the “culprits” have deliberately promulgated what they knew to be a confusion; in most cases the failing is rather one of negligence, of inadequate attention to inconsistencies in their worldview. And as we’ll see, these three groups have systematically reinforced one another’s confusions.)

Culprit #1: the left. Across the spectrum from the squishiest mainstream liberal to the bomb-throwingest radical leftist, there is widespread (though not, it should be noted, universal) agreement that laissez-faire and corporate plutocracy are virtually synonymous. David Korten, for example, describes advocates of unrestricted markets, private property, and individual rights as “corporate libertarians” who champion a “globalized free market that leaves resource allocation decisions in the hands of giant corporations”—as though these giant corporations were creatures of the free market rather than of the state—while Noam Chomsky, though savvy enough to recognize that the corporate elite are terrified of genuine free markets, yet in the same breath will turn around and say that we must at all costs avoid free markets lest we unduly empower the corporate elite.

Culprit #2: the right. If libertarians’ left-wing opponents have conflated free markets with pro-business intervention, libertarians’ right-wing opponents have done all they can to foster precisely this confusion; for there is a widespread (though again not universal) tendency for conservatives to cloak corporatist policies in free-market rhetoric. This is how conservative politicians in their presumptuous Adam Smith neckties have managed to get themselves perceived—perhaps have even managed to perceive themselves—as proponents of tax cuts, spending cuts, and unhampered competition despite endlessly raising taxes, raising spending, and promoting “government-business partnerships.”

Consider the conservative virtue-term “privatization,” which has two distinct, indeed opposed, meanings. On the one hand, it can mean returning some service or industry from the monopolistic government sector to the competitive private sector—getting government out of it; this would be the libertarian meaning. On the other hand, it can mean “contracting out,” i.e., granting to some private firm a monopoly privilege in the provision some service previously provided by government directly. There is nothing free-market about privatization in this latter sense, since the monopoly power is merely transferred from one set of hands to another; this is corporatism, or pro-business intervention, not laissez-faire. (To be sure, there may be competition in the bidding for such monopoly contracts, but competition to establish a legal monopoly is no more genuine market competition than voting—one last time—to establish a dictator is genuine democracy.)

Of these two meanings, the corporatist meaning may actually be older, dating back to fascist economic policies in Nazi Germany; but it was the libertarian meaning that was primarily intended when the term (coined independently, as the reverse of “nationalization”) first achieved widespread usage in recent decades. Yet conservatives have largely co-opted the term, turning it once again toward the corporatist sense.

Similar concerns apply to that other conservative virtue-term, “deregulation.” From a libertarian standpoint, deregulating should mean the removal of governmental directives and interventions from the sphere of voluntary exchange. But when a private entity is granted special governmental privileges, “deregulating” it amounts instead to an increase, not a decrease, in governmental intrusion into the economy. To take an example not exactly at random, if assurances of a tax-funded bailout lead banks to make riskier loans than they otherwise would, then the banks are being made freer to take risks with the money of unconsenting taxpayers. When conservatives advocate this kind of deregulation they are wrapping redistribution and privilege in the language of economic freedom. When conservatives market their plutocratic schemes as free-market policies, can we really blame liberals and leftists for conflating the two? (Well, okay, yes we can. Still, it is a mitigating factor.)

Culprit #3: libertarians themselves. Alas, libertarians are not innocent here—which is why the answer to my opening question (as to whether it’s fair to charge libertarians with being apologists for big business) was no and yes rather than a simple no. If libertarians are accused of carrying water for corporate interests, that may be at least in part because, well, they so often sound like that’s just what they’re doing (though here, as above, there are plenty of honorable exceptions to this tendency). Consider libertarian icon Ayn Rand’s description of big business as a “persecuted minority,” or the way libertarians defend “our free-market health-care system” against the alternative of socialized medicine, as though the health care system that prevails in the United States were the product of free competition rather than of systematic government intervention on behalf of insurance companies and the medical establishment at the expense of ordinary people. Or again, note the alacrity with which so many libertarians rush to defend Wal-Mart and the like as heroic exemplars of the free market. Among such libertarians, criticisms of corporate power are routinely dismissed as anti-market ideology. (Of course such dismissiveness gets reinforced by the fact that many critics of corporate power are in the grip of anti-market ideology.) Thus when left-wing analysts complain about “corporate libertarians” they are not merely confused; they’re responding to a genuine tendency even if they’ve to some extent misunderstood it.

Kevin Carson has coined the term “vulgar libertarianism” for the tendency to treat the case for the free market as though it justified various unlovely features of actually existing corporatist society. (I find it preferable to talk of vulgar libertarianism rather than of vulgar libertarians, because very few libertarians are consistently vulgar; vulgar libertarianism is a tendency that can show up to varying degrees in thinkers who have many strong anti-corporatist tendencies also.) Likewise, “vulgar liberalism” is Carson’s term for the corresponding tendency to treat the undesirability of those features of actually existing corporatist society as though they constituted an objection to the free market. Both tendencies conflate free markets with corporatism, but draw opposite morals; as Murray Rothbard notes, “Both left and right have been persistently misled by the notion that intervention by the government is ipso facto leftish and antibusiness.” And if many leftists tend to see dubious corporate advocacy in libertarian pronouncements even when it’s not there, so likewise many libertarians tend not to see dubious corporate advocacy in libertarian pronouncements even when it is there.
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Universe Prince

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Re: "When Corporations Hate Markets"
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2008, 02:16:19 PM »
Part two by Matthew Yglesias is up. An excerpt:
         That said, the larger problem is that libertarianism, even at its very best, tends to suffer from an impoverished set of ideas about how corporate domination of the public policy space might be prevented. The political left has, by contrast, the tradition of community organizing, a set of public interest advocacy organizations, allies in the trade union movement, efforts to improve the quality and independence of the civil service, and various notions about changing the methods by which campaigns are financed in the United States. This is hardly a perfect toolkit, and it can be enhanced in some ways by drawing on libertarian insights, but it’s something. And libertarians tend to be either indifferent or hostile to it, campaigning against public financing, strong labor unions, and the civil service.

In practice, libertarianism seems to have little to say about how to bring about political change except to work hand-in-hand with business lobbies when the interests of business and free markets are aligned, or else when business interests are masquerading as libertarianism.

I raise this less in the spirit of complaint than to illustrate a genuine problem. Curbing certain sorts of infringements of market activity that serve to only further enrich the already rich is essential. And American progressives aren’t doing all that great a job of doing it. We could use allies, and we could use good ideas. And there are some models out there. The Institute for Justice, for example, takes on some causes I disagree with. But their campaigning against things like an Oklahoma law requiring a license before you call yourself an “interior designer” and other forms of senseless occupational licensing has identified a very real problem. And they’ve developed a litigation strategy that’s borne some fruit and seems to hold some promise. The world could use more such ideas, and hopefully through conversations such as this one some will emerge.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
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Plane

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Re: "When Corporations Hate Markets"
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2008, 07:49:09 PM »
How do Libertarians feel about Anti trust legislation?

Universe Prince

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Re: "When Corporations Hate Markets"
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2008, 11:19:05 PM »

How do Libertarians feel about Anti trust legislation?


Depends on which one you ask. As best I can tell, libertarians in general oppose antitrust legislation because antitrust legislation is generally not done to protect consumers but to protect corporations and businesses who seek to limit competition. Antitrust legislation is viewed as a sort of Orwellian effort by corporations and government to control the market. I agree with this view.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: "When Corporations Hate Markets"
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2008, 11:23:26 PM »
The purpose of antitrust laws has always been to prevent one company (Standard Oil, Ma Bell, IBM) from dominating the market and preventing competition. Some have worked better than others, because lobbyists have been listened to when the legislation was written.

It is natural for every company to try to monopolize the market for its products.

I have never heard from anyone that Libertarians gave a rat's ass about consumers, and I don't think they do.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Universe Prince

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Re: "When Corporations Hate Markets"
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2008, 01:50:42 AM »

The purpose of antitrust laws has always been to prevent one company (Standard Oil, Ma Bell, IBM) from dominating the market and preventing competition.


Whatever helps you sleep at night.


I have never heard from anyone that Libertarians gave a rat's ass about consumers, and I don't think they do.


Then you haven't been paying attention, but we knew that much already.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: "When Corporations Hate Markets"
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2008, 09:37:28 AM »
I have never heard from anyone that Libertarians gave a rat's ass about consumers, and I don't think they do.


Then you haven't been paying attention, but we knew that much already.

==============================================
We? How many of you are there?

Okay, so what do Libertarians offer consumers? Better food and drugs supervision? Anti-monopoly laws to reinforce competition? What do Libertarians propose to do about credit card fines for late payments, onerous cellphone contracts, which can cost hundreds to get out of a service that does not work worth a damn?

Tell us, O great One(s).
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Universe Prince

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Re: "When Corporations Hate Markets"
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2008, 02:51:24 PM »

We? How many of you are there?


Enough.


Okay, so what do Libertarians offer consumers? Better food and drugs supervision? Anti-monopoly laws to reinforce competition? What do Libertarians propose to do about credit card fines for late payments, onerous cellphone contracts, which can cost hundreds to get out of a service that does not work worth a damn?

Tell us, O great One(s).


Libertarians advocate for greater consumer choice. Take, for instance, folks who like to drink raw milk. Laws say raw milk cannot be sold. Libertarians would take the laws prohibiting that sale out of the way. Libertarians advocate (generally speaking) that DRM is a waste of time and money and should be eliminated. Libertarians advocate for property rights and protecting the consumer from things like eminent domain abuses.

Reinforce competition you say? Libertarians oppose the collusion of government and corporations to stifle competition through regulations and laws that needlessly hinder the market and make entering the market onerous.

What do libertarians propose to do about credit card fines for late payments? You want libertarians to give you money because you're late paying off your credit cards? Cell phone contracts? I see, you want someone to rescue you from the consequences of the bad choices you made. You're right, libertarians don't offer to hold your hand and hand over money every time you make a mistake. But then, they're not advocating we do that to businesses and corporations either. One way libertarians "offer" to protect consumers is by not having their tax dollars thrown away on huge bailouts for the wealthy.

On the other, hand, if you want to earn some money, the libertarians would be willing to help you out. For example, libertarians advocate for the elimination of needless licensing. If one wants to braid hair and only braid hair for a living, in most places one either operates in secret or one has to go to school--and learn things that have nothing whatever to do with braiding hair--to get a cosmetologist's license. Referenced in the excerpt from Matthew Yglesias's post is interior design licenses. In many if not most states, one must be licensed before one can have a business as an interior designer. There are multiple laws like that in effect which accomplish little except to stifle competition and make entry into the market burdensome. Libertarians would like to do away with those laws.

These are just a few examples and all of this has been talked about here in one form or another. Had you been paying attention, you would have known that.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2008, 04:04:22 PM by Universe Prince »
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: "When Corporations Hate Markets"
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2008, 08:34:30 PM »

We? How many of you are there?


Enough.

=====================================
I doubt this most seriously. I suggest that if there were "enough" Liberatrians, they would have actually elected at least one congressman AS A LIBERTARIAN i the last century. I obe=serve that neither Ron Paul nor Bob Barr has ever run as a Libertarian, and imafgine that it is because they realize that they';d never be elected on a Libertarian ticket.


As for the credit card, I am commenting on the fact that credit card companies universally claim the right to unilaterally change the terms of the card, and to then impose outrageous fees, like a $29 charge for a $5.00 balance having arrived one day late.

Of course no one thinks that the government should pay the fee, but that the government should ban this sort of usury.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: "When Corporations Hate Markets"
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2008, 12:14:03 AM »
What is the Libertarian's favored means of ensureing fair competition , reduction of fraud and promoteing the public welfare?

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: "When Corporations Hate Markets"
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2008, 12:48:22 AM »
What is the Libertarian's favored means of ensureing fair competition , reduction of fraud and promoteing the public welfare?

I don't think they have any means. Anyone can do anything they want, just not resort to violence.

So far as I know, if we had a Libertarian government, we could buy all the pot we wanted, but when it turned out that we paid $200 for an ounce of Maui Wowie and it turned out to be McCormick's Oregano, they'd just laugh and make fun of us.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Universe Prince

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Re: "When Corporations Hate Markets"
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2008, 01:24:41 AM »

What is the Libertarian's favored means of ensureing fair competition , reduction of fraud and promoteing the public welfare?


A) That depends on what you define as "fair competition". But generally speaking, the idea is to get out of the way and not stack the deck in any one person's or one company's favor. No corporate welfare, no subsidies, no bailouts, no useless licensing, no regulations that favor big business and keep the entrepreneur out; enforcement of laws that protect individual rights, laws against fraud and theft, protection of property rights.

B) As I mentioned in the previous paragraph, enforcement of laws against fraud.

C) Again much depends on what you define as the "public welfare". Seems to me the public welfare is not aided by bailing out corporations with taxpayer money, or by use of eminent domain to take property from individuals to give to businesses and/or developers. More directly, getting the federal government, at least, out of things like the medical industry and education would benefit the public welfare. Doctors who have taken to refusing federal funds have found the cost of their business is lowered, and they can charge according to ability to pay, rather than charging everyone the same. Often smaller private schools with less pay for teachers than the public school system perform better than the public schools because the smaller private schools are innovative, not because they have swimming pools and the finest decor and teachers with tenure and standardized tests.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Universe Prince

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Re: "When Corporations Hate Markets"
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2008, 01:32:32 AM »

I don't think they have any means. Anyone can do anything they want, just not resort to violence.


You clearly know nothing about libertarian ideas. I'm not saying you have to respect me or libertarian ideas, but since you're obviously ignorant, you should take the wise course and keep quiet on the matter, unless you enjoy looking like an idiot.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Plane

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Re: "When Corporations Hate Markets"
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2008, 01:53:41 AM »
When someone tells me that he is a Doctor , do I depend on the government to vet his qualification to teach or treat me?

Is there a non governmental agency competent to verify for a client , patient, student , that his Lawyer , Doctor , Professor has been to school and earned his degrees?


When a claim is made in public should I depend on the government to ensure that I am not being lied to ? Does the government check to see if four out of five Doctors really agree?

If I am depending entirely on the Government to ensure that I am never defrauded , what will defend me from a fraud that benefits the government ? Will I learn in school anything that is contrary to Government interest, if I rely on the government to educate me ? Can I receive a treatment for my health that I believe in but the government does not, or doesn't think cost effective?

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: "When Corporations Hate Markets"
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2008, 10:57:01 AM »
You clearly know nothing about libertarian ideas. I'm not saying you have to respect me or libertarian ideas, but since you're obviously ignorant, you should take the wise course and keep quiet on the matter, unless you enjoy looking like an idiot.
===============================================================


No one knows how Libertarians propose to keep monopolistic companies from abusing the public. This is most likely because they have no proposals. If Bill Gates manages to control 98% of the market, then he has that right.

Coke has a right to make deals with restaurants for lower prices on Coke products if it agrees to sell no Pepsi products. because the public can choose to go to another restaurant. The customer's right to order a 7-up is nullified by Coca Cola's desire to sell Sprite and Pepsi's desire to peddle Sierra Mist.

Credit card companies can charge usurious fees because the consumer has the option of not using the card.

Those EULA agreements we see on software, saying that the software is designed for no specific purpose and the consumer has no right to sue or get his money back if it does not work, wrecks other data on his computer or destrys the hard disk or any other equipment? They are also okay for Libertarians, because the consumer can choose not to buy Windows, and can choose not to agree to the terms of the EULA.

If you are the expert on Libertarian principles that you seem to want us to think you are, you could actually EXPLAIN what it is that Libertarian principles actually are on these and other issues.

If only a half of a percent of people vote for Libertarian candidates, then  two likely possibilities exist (1) people do not know what Libertarians believe, and (2) they do understand, and are in disagreement.

I agree with Libertarians on how the War on Drugs is a huge amount of wasted money, especially enforcing laws against pot, which is easy to detect. I agree that there is no reason why a license should be required to braid hair or do interior design. I am less sure about having no restrictions on those caring for children or the elderly, where ther possibility of harm goes beyond being bald or living in a hovel of bad taste.

I disagree that laws against monopolies and guarantee competition are a bad thing.  I disagree that EULA shrinkwrap software contracts, cellphone contracts and many rental contracts are just fine and the consumer should find products that do not have such restrictions, because in many cases, everyone who offers a type of software or a cellphone has written the same exact restrictive, anti-consumer language into the contract.

I think people have a right to expect more from a government than just protection from thugs and invading armies.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."