DebateGate
General Category => 3DHS => Topic started by: BSB on December 25, 2009, 10:03:58 PM
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Attempted Terrorist Attack
"A man tried to ignite an explosive device aboard a jet that landed in Detroit on Friday in an incident the United States believes was “an attempted act of terrorism,” according to a White House official."
Times Wire: http://www.nytimes.com/timeswire/index.html
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Fixed link: http://bit.ly/8twj6o (http://bit.ly/8twj6o)
Looks like Amsterdam needs to up it's security.
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U.S. Charges Suspect in Attempted Terrorist Attack on Plane
Abdul Farouk Abdulmutallab was charged Saturday in a federal criminal complaint with the willful attempt to destroy an aircraft Friday on its final approach to Detroit Metropolitan Airport and with placing a destructive device on the aircraft. According to an affidavit filed in support of the criminal complaint, Mr. Abdulmutallab had a device attached to his body. As the flight was approaching Detroit Metropolitan Airport, Mr. Abdulmutallab set off the device, resulting in a fire and what appears to have been an explosion.
According to the complaint, a preliminary F.B.I. analysis found that the device contained PETN, also known as pentaerythritol, a high explosive. "Further analysis is ongoing," the statement said. "In addition, F.B.I. agents recovered what appear to be the remnants of the syringe from the vicinity of Abdulmutallab's seat, believed to have been part of the device." Despite his injuries, Mr. Abdulmutallab was scheduled to be in court later in the day.
Read More:
http://www.nytimes.com? (http://www.nytimes.com?)emc=na
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Why would anyone wanting real news read the NY Times?
Try this place for better balance and accuracy in reporting:
http://www.drudgereport.com/?/? (http://www.drudgereport.com/?/?)
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Snowblower II, it's the story, not what news agency came out with it. Get it?
We has a slight case of ADD.
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The NY Times has zero credibility.
If you want anyone other than your friend Mike to take a story seriously I suggest you use a different source. Otherwise you're post will be questioned and probably ignored.
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Snowblower II, it's the story, not what news agency came out with it. Get it?
We has a slight case of ADD.
Hey Chester, have you enrolled in the 2012 Special Olympics yet?
Got a bargain for ya
http://oneshoetwoshoe.net/ (http://oneshoetwoshoe.net/)
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Yeah right.
Drudge is more accurate than the NY Times. ::)
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Yeah right.
Drudge is more accurate than the NY Times. ::)
Drudge doesn't write anything they are a site with links to stories. Rather than taking the NY Times word for it Drudge offers many options. For example if you go to Drudge now you might find 3 different stories on the terrorist attempt to blow up that plane yesterday.
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I doubt that any account will be very accurate until all the facts are in and released about who the guy is and what those around him think of him. Right now, it is bound to be all rumors and speculation.
It takes time for a story like this one, involving a guy who is being interrogated, to be made coherent.
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As if what the NY Times said was controversial. Lol, you gotta laugh.
Say, Snowblower II, great post on Chester. That's how you stimulate intellectually invigorating conversation. You know BT and how he loves fair play.
BTW, are Kramer, Rich, and the snowblower, competing to see who can lower the content of this forum the furthest? I'd say we got a horse race.
BSB
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Nobody said it was controversial.
Anyone who's been paying attantion for at least the past ten years knows the New York Times is nothing but a liberal rag spitting out the liberal party bile. Given it's track record it would be wiser to quote a different source.
Simple as that.
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BT has nothing to do with your spats with the various other members of this forum and their spats with you.
I'll get involved if and when i choose to get involved. Fair enough!
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>>BTW, are Kramer, Rich, and the snowblower, competing to see who can lower the content of this forum the furthest? I'd say we got a horse race.<,
I'm not sure why you'd say somethin like that. I've tried to be polite.
If you find it to difficult to deal with people who disagree with you, you might want to consider watching some football or something that might not tax your brain too much.
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I was just trying to live up to your strong sense of fair play, BT. I know how important that is to you.
BSB
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You've really got a problem.
Go take a nap little guy.
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Ok big guy.
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Good. Get some rest. Ask the nurse for some whiskey and sleeping pills.
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I was just trying to live up to your strong sense of fair play, BT. I know how important that is to you.
BSB
I'd have to be playing for fair play to come into question, and as i have previously stated the spat-a-thon doesn't involve me.
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<<BTW, are Kramer, Rich, and the snowblower, competing to see who can lower the content of this forum the furthest? I'd say we got a horse race.>>
Fuck you, ass-hole, I wasn't in that race.
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<<BTW, are Kramer, Rich, and the snowblower, competing to see who can lower the content of this forum the furthest? I'd say we got a horse race.>>
Fuck you, ass-hole, I wasn't in that race.
have you accepted the nickname snowblower?
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I accept the fact that when BSB says "Snowblower," he means me, even though I never owned a snow-blower and always shoveled my own fucking drive. I'm not sure what you mean by "accepted." I don't like it but it's not worth writing about. I mean who gives a shit, really?
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I never owned a snowblower. I don't know why.
I guess I expected my teenage son to shovel the driveway.
Yeah, right.
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I just had to laugh at that last post.
The only time my teen-age son EVER shoveled out my drive was one snowy night when my daughter's boy-friend came over to visit and grabbed the shovel out of my hands, which basically shamed my son into abandoning his homework and doing the driveway.
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I just had to laugh at that last post.
The only time my teen-age son EVER shoveled out my drive was one snowy night when my daughter's boy-friend came over to visit and grabbed the shovel out of my hands, which basically shamed my son into abandoning his homework and doing the driveway.
typical liberal
you should have been a better parent and made your son get off his ass
you people are more concerned about being your kids friends over getting them ready for a potential tough life
when the world economy crashed what is he going to do come home to dad with his hand out
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<<typical liberal
<<you should have been a better parent and made your son get off his ass>>
ROTFLMFAO. Easier said than done, Kramer. Wait till you've got your own. Sure I shoulda been a better parent. That's what EVERY father says but fuck the "coulda shoulda woulda" bullshit, I did my best and the kid turned out OK. More than OK.
<<you people are more concerned about being your kids friends over getting them ready for a potential tough life
when the world economy crashed what is he going to do come home to dad with his hand out>>
LMFAO. That kid speaks fluent French and Italian, has his graduate degree (as do my other two) and walked into a high-level management position in a local community college fresh out of grad school. It's a lot more likely that I'LL have to come to him with MY hand out than that he'll have to come to me.
And BTW, while I'd never say we were best friends, we were always pretty tight and that's never changed. Never try to lecture a liberal on child-raising techniques, Kramer. We raise the best damn kids in the world. LIBERAL kids. 1-2-3-4-we-don't-want-your-fucking-war kids.
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<<typical liberal
<<you should have been a better parent and made your son get off his ass>>
ROTFLMFAO. Easier said than done, Kramer. Wait till you've got your own. Sure I shoulda been a better parent. That's what EVERY father says but fuck the "coulda shoulda woulda" bullshit, I did my best and the kid turned out OK. More than OK.
<<you people are more concerned about being your kids friends over getting them ready for a potential tough life
when the world economy crashed what is he going to do come home to dad with his hand out>>
LMFAO. That kid speaks fluent French and Italian, has his graduate degree (as do my other two) and walked into a high-level management position in a local community college fresh out of grad school. It's a lot more likely that I'LL have to come to him with MY hand out than that he'll have to come to me.
And BTW, while I'd never say we were best friends, we were always pretty tight and that's never changed. Never try to lecture a liberal on child-raising techniques, Kramer. We raise the best damn kids in the world. LIBERAL kids. 1-2-3-4-we-don't-want-your-fucking-war kids.
Chesters life would have been so much better if only YOU had raised him over a pack of wolves. Just think, woulda shoulda coulda not gone to Vietnam. He could have amounted to something if only you were his dad.
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If everybody's kids were raised like my kids NOBODY would have gone to Viet Nam, the hundreds of billions of dollars wasted there would have gone into cancer research, early childhood development R&D, poverty eradication and similar projects and this would have been one hell of a better fucking world today.
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>>you should have been a better parent and made your son get off his ass<<
In my defense, my son was a three sport althlete through most of high school which meant he was usually not home until after I was most days. I also felt lilke he was expending so much energy playing sports that asking him to shovel drive way (which was perhaps 30 yards long and 15 wide) was alot to ask.
So I did it, or I paid a snow plow guy to do it.
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The Rich Jihadi Proved Western
Anti-Terror Measures Don't Work
DEBKAfile's Special Analysis
December 27, 2009
The horrendous sight of another Western airline crashing over the US on Christmas Day 2009 was averted by a fluke and the resourcefulness of passengers and cabin crew - not by the anti-terror agencies' high-tech gadgets, vast budgets and airport security measures.
Six months ago, Umar Faroul Abdulmuttallab's father warned the US Embassy in Lagos of his 23-year old son's alarming extremist Muslim activities. Yet he was granted a US visa. On Dec. 25, he sailed through Schiphol international airport with 80 grams of PETN (pentaervthritol) high explosive and liquid detonators in his underpants after landing from Lagos and caught the Northwest Flight 253 from Amsterdam to Detroit.
If the British Richard Reid goes down in terror history as "the shoe bomber" who failed to crash a US airliner over LA in 2001, Abdulmuttallab may be remembered as the Rich Jihadi, the son of a wealthy Nigerian banker and ex-minister, the second millionaire-terrorist to follow in the footsteps of the first, Osama bin Laden.
Saturday, Dec. 26, the US government filed the following charge: ?Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, 23, a Nigerian national, boarded Northwest Flight 253 in Amsterdam, Netherlands on December 24, 2009 and had a device attached to his body. As the flight was approaching Detroit Metropolitan Airport, Abdulmutallab set off the device, which resulted in a fire and what appears to have been an explosion. Abdulmutallab was then subdued and restrained by the passengers and flight crew. The airplane landed shortly thereafter, and he was taken into custody by Customs and Border Patrol officers.
Terrified passengers told the FBI investigators that twenty minutes before landing, the suspect went to the bathroom. On returning to his seat, he complained of a stomach ache and covered himself with a blanket, from which pops, smoke and flames soon emerged. Jasper Schuringa, a Dutch passenger, tackled the suspect and helped the cabin crew put out the fire and restrain him. Abdulmuttallab himself, hospitalized with burns, is quoted as admitting to links with al Qaeda and claiming to have received the explosives in Yemen after a month's training.
This contradicts earlier US attempts to play down the incident by claiming he was a loner.
Indeed, al Qaeda's record since its first attempt to blow up New York's Twin Towers in 1993, is remarkably consistent; its planners have deviated very little from their methods of operation or their targets and remain fixated on their primary goal of smashing America as the Western world's superpower.
To this end, Al Qaeda has forged ahead steadfastly for 18 years undeterred by failures:
After the September 11, 2001 attacks on New York and Washington, the fundamentalist terrorists took a break before striking Madrid trains in 2004, London transport in 2005, and trying to down a dozen transatlantic airliners with liquid explosives in 2006. This last plot copied the terrorist Ramzi Yusuf's failed bid in 1991 to hijack 12 airliners taking off for the US from Asian airports and crash them over American cities.
Just as stubbornly, Western counter-terror agencies, while armed with the most advanced especially developed technology for fighting terrorists and astronomical budgets, persist in playing down al Qaeda's potency and resolve and glossing over two essential facts:
1. The fundamentalist school of Islam, Sunni and Shiite, has declared a perpetual war on Western culture. It is not rooted in political or social differences, such as the gap between the have-not Muslim peoples and the affluent West, or even in various world disputes like the Israel-Palestinian conflict, which are often held up as symbols of injustice. These extremists simply loathe everything the West stands for: religious orientation, philosophy, way of thinking and mores, and are willing to lay down their lives to extinguish it.
2. Al Qaeda holds to the belief that devastating attacks on big US cities are the key to smashing America's wealth and strength as the leading Western superpower.
For its activists, the jihadists, civilian airline jets are the preferred weapons of mass destruction because of their vulnerability and because Western security is full of holes and easily misled by its own preconceptions.
Most of the Western media covering the failed attempt to blow up the Delta airline over Detroit mulled in wonder over the discovery that the bomber was no wild man from Tora Bora or Waziristan or poor boy from a wretched Baghdad, Cairo or Karachi slum, but the scion of a rich and privileged Nigerian family, who could afford to send him to the prestigious London College University to study engineering and allow him the freedom to choose what he wanted to do with his life.
Why he chose to martyr himself as a terrorist defied most Western pundits, showing that very little has been learned from the way al Qaeda evolved from 1987, when Osama bin Laden debuted in the Pakistani town of Peshawar as leader of an organization no one had ever heard of called al Qaeda, despite a background very much like that of the young Nigerian. He too belonged to one of the wealthiest families in Saudi Arabia and opted for the life of an extremist terrorist.
Western agencies appear to find the real objectives and the roots and the motives governing the Islamist organization's choice of targets and weapons beyond their understanding, when in fact Al Qaeda's methods are brutally simple, even primitive.
The two elements working for them are good intelligence and patience.
Having achieved its first major objective, obliteration of the iconic New York Trade Center in 2001, al Qaeda's planners are working on their next goal, which has so far proved elusive: knocking the transatlantic air traffic connecting America to the world out of the skies.
DEBKAfile's counter-terror analysts are in no doubt that Osama bin Laden will not rest until he attains this goal, which means that the war on terror will not be resolved in the battlefields of Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan or Palestine, but in the Pentagon, Washington and the authorities safeguarding international civilian air travel.
Al Qaeda is in no hurry. Seven years elapsed between the first attempt to destroy the Trade Center and the final calamity. Therefore, the jihadis will patiently repeat the young Nigerian's failed attempt until they succeed.
Taking this into account, US and British law enforcement authorities must now confront their own deficiencies and put them right without delay. But first they must answer some tough questions:
For instance, although he was placed on a US watch list, Umar Abdulmutallab never made it to the no-fly category.
And on top of America's abundant sophisticated gadgets, satellites, drones and electronics which failed to put its security agencies on guard for the threat to Northwest Flight 253, they had two known pieces of human intelligence to hand which they ignored:
The UK refused the young Nigerian an entry visa after he ended his engineering studies at the London College University in 2008 - which should have alerted the Americans, if they were informed; and his own father cautioned the US ambassador in Lagos about his son's extremist proclivities.
Finally, although the German BND intelligence service passed on its suspicions of a dynamic, youthful al Qaeda network evolving in Western Europe, Abdulmuttallab easily passed through two airports' screening arrangements carrying an explosive device, and boarded a transatlantic airliner with a valid US visa.
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There is no substitute for armed marshals on every flight.
And there is no way to guarantee that somewhere, somehow, some "terrorist" or holy warrior (your choice) or some group of them will not penetrate security and complete their mission. The objective is minimizing the threat, not eradicating it. Risk can not be abolished from life. Even from American life.
So it's foolish for DEBKA to claim that the security measures "don't work." The evidence of their having worked in the past might very well be kept secret, for security reasons. DEBKA, of course, has an agenda, which includes provoking war between the U.S.A.. and the Islamic countries, any Islamic country. The bloodier the better. This can only benefit the Zio-Nazi cause they serve. Their agenda requires massive amounts of fear-mongering, such as: "Anti-Terror Measures Don't Work." Of course, if "anti-terror measures don't work," then the next logical step is to escalate, and escalation means sanctions, means, ultimately, invasion. The current objective is to move the U.S. at least one step closer to war.
The article is pure bullshit, nothing but nonsensical Zio-Nazi war-mongering propaganda and should be treated as such.
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There is no substitute for armed marshals on every flight.
I'm not so sure that other countries will be so gung-ho about the US government putting armed government agents on their flights.
I mean, we can make the US safe by having our military take over every airport in the world and run them, but I'm not so sure that would go over so well.
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There is no substitute for armed marshals on every flight.
How would an armed marshal have done anything more than what was done on this flight?
Quit fooling yourself....like Debka says our anti-terror measures are full of holes...
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Quit fooling yourself....like Debka says our anti-terror measures are full of holes...
So, how does Debka suggest we have fixed the hole in this case? Think Amsterdam (the origin of this flight) will listen when Congress passes some new laws?
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So, how does Debka suggest we have fixed the hole in this case?
Think Amsterdam (the origin of this flight) will listen when Congress passes some new laws?
Ami I doubt Debka suggests "a fix" because there is none.
Just like there is no "fix" for murder....it's gonna happen...always has...always will.
We are in for a very, very, very long war with these cavemen IslamoNazis.
Our security measures are better than nothing.....but still full of holes.
All ya gotta do is stick a large size 100% plastic flask of gasoline down your crotch in your underwear,
wear some loose fit warm-up pants and you could sail right through airport security.....bingo your on
board a plane with 3,4,5 guys with enough gas to cause some serious problems. Thank God the Detroit
flight turned out ok, but the IslamoKlansmen will keep trying & will one day target & kill a bunch more innocent people.
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I find your term "Islamoklansmen" to be silly.
The one thing the KKK never did was mess with aircraft.
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I find your term "Islamoklansmen" to be silly.
The one thing the KKK never did was mess with aircraft.
Both the KKK Klansmen and the IslamoKlansmen target/terrorize innocent people,
oppose democracy & sometimes hide their shameful acts behind head coverings.
(http://www.javno.com/slike/slike_3/r1/g2008/m11/y186511227514463.jpg)
(http://www.americansagainsthate.org/images/Beheading-in-the-Name.jpg)
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<<How would an armed marshal have done anything more than what was done on this flight?>>
Easy. They'd ensure that a guy like that would be dealt with effectively 99 times out of 100, instead of leaving it up to chance to determine if his seat-mates are up to the task or not.
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Not again: 'Unruly' passenger aboard Northwest Flight 253 taken into custody
BY Helen Kennedy
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER
Sunday, December 27th 2009,
(http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2009/12/28/alg_flight-253-arrest.jpg)
Arbogast/AP
Northwest Flight 253 is grounded once again after a passenger is reportedly 'disruptive.'
A disruptive Nigerian passenger caused the pilot of the same Amsterdam-to-Detroit flight targeted by a Nigerian bomber Christmas Day to declare an emergency Sunday.
Delta/Northwest Airlines flight 253 landed safely in Detroit at 12:34 p.m. and was shunted to a remote part of the tarmac, where it was being held as officials investigated.
Michigan media reported the incident did not appear to be a terrorist threat, but rather was caused by a businessman who became ill during the flight.
The brouhaha started when a passenger spent nearly an hour in the bathroom and then emerged "unruly" and "verbally disruptive," witnesses said.
All 257 passengers and the 12 crew members got off safely and were bused to the terminal, according to a Delta spokeswoman.
The passenger was being questioned, but the incident appeared to be a false alarm, CNN reported.
On Christmas Day, Nigerian banker's son Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab tried to ignite a bomb sewed into his underpants on the same flight.
Passengers pounced on him and immobilized him.
The Associated Press quoted a law enforcement official saying jitters were widespread and there had been several reports of incidents on other flights arriving in Detroit, but none turned out to be serious.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2009/12/27/2009-12-27_not_again_unruly_passenger_taken_into_custody_aboard_northwest_flight_253.html (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2009/12/27/2009-12-27_not_again_unruly_passenger_taken_into_custody_aboard_northwest_flight_253.html)
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Easy. They'd ensure that a guy like that would be dealt with effectively 99 times out of 100
instead of leaving it up to chance to determine if his seat-mates are up to the task or not.
So the answer to my question is an armed marshal would have not been able
to prevent this guy from boarding with explosives or attempting to blow up the
plane. Plus remember they only need the one out of a 100 to "win". I hope I'm
not on the one in a hundred airplanes your marshal theory doesn't protect.
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If you are worried about one flight in a hundred, my advice to you would be to take the train. There is no system that can stop so-called "terrorists" 100 times out of 100.
The Detroit flight was saved by alert and effective passengers. If you believe that the average passenger is just as capable of saving the day as trained U.S. marshals, then you'd have a point. OTOH I believe the marshals would on the whole do a better job than the average passenger and so I continue to advocate the presence of armed guards (on U.S. flights, federal marshals) incognito on all flights.
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<<How would an armed marshal have done anything more than what was done on this flight?>>
Easy. They'd ensure that a guy like that would be dealt with effectively 99 times out of 100, instead of leaving it up to chance to determine if his seat-mates are up to the task or not.
I think this would require an airmarshal to be in every third seat , right now there isn't an air marshal on every third flight.
An air marshal three rows away from the bomber could not act fast enough to prevent anything.
The KKK is a shadow of its former self in large part because of earnest prosicution but equally because of loss of esteem , too many people would be ashamed of joining the KKK now for them to maintain the large numbers that they need.
How can we foster an attitude of shame twards the Al Queda?
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<<How can we foster an attitude of shame twards the Al Queda?>>
Good question, but the answer is, you can't. It's an honour to die for your people and to take a whole shitload of their oppressors with you.
I guess the answer is to stop the oppression, directly and indirectly and there would not be any honour in killing the citizens of countries which are no longer directly or indirectly oppressing your own people. But that's kinda like telling the crocodile not to eat meat.
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<<How can we foster an attitude of shame twards the Al Queda?>>
Good question, but the answer is, you can't. It's an honour to die for your people and to take a whole shitload of their oppressors with you.
I guess the answer is to stop the oppression, directly and indirectly and there would not be any honour in killing the citizens of countries which are no longer directly or indirectly oppressing your own people. But that's kinda like telling the crocodile not to eat meat.
We can't stop the justifacation of the Al Quieda without adopting Islam. Even so little a thing as an insensitive cartoon would be to much.
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The Detroit flight was saved by alert and effective passengers.
After a failure of the detonator...
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<<We can't stop the justifacation of the Al Quieda without adopting Islam. Even so little a thing as an insensitive cartoon would be to much.>>
You are the one claiming that al Qaeda started because of a failure of the West to convert to Islam. Most observers credit the oppression of the Muslims by the West and suggest that the cartoons are just the icing on the cake.
Since the oppression is a much greater offence than either our failure to convert or the cartoons, I suggest the logical path to peace would be to abandon the oppression of the Muslims, then wait to see if al Qaeda can continue to recruit and operate, fueled only by a failure of Westerners to convert and/or some cartoons in a Danish paper.
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<<We can't stop the justifacation of the Al Quieda without adopting Islam. Even so little a thing as an insensitive cartoon would be to much.>>
You are the one claiming that al Qaeda started because of a failure of the West to convert to Islam. Most observers credit the oppression of the Muslims by the West and suggest that the cartoons are just the icing on the cake.
Since the oppression is a much greater offence than either our failure to convert or the cartoons, I suggest the logical path to peace would be to abandon the oppression of the Muslims, then wait to see if al Qaeda can continue to recruit and operate, fueled only by a failure of Westerners to convert and/or some cartoons in a Danish paper.
The bomber in this case was from a rich family prominent in his nation.
What sort of victim is that?
"Opression " of Islam by the US includes allowing total freedom of worship in the Mosques that dot every American city, the US repression of Islam is mythical.
It might be better if Americans treated converts to Islam the way that Converts to Christianity are treated in Saudi Arabia , or Packistan, or would that be repressive?
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There are no converts to Christianity in Saudi Arabia. At best, if you convert, you are expelled from the country. Pakistan is a lot less fanatical, as there is a lot more diversity there. Still, being anything but a Muslim in Pakistan is likely to be difficult to some degree.
The attitude of Muslims in some cultures is like the attitude toward gays or political dissenters in some parts of the US.
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There are no converts to Christianity in Saudi Arabia. At best, if you convert, you are expelled from the country. Pakistan is a lot less fanatical, as there is a lot more diversity there. Still, being anything but a Muslim in Pakistan is likely to be difficult to some degree.
The attitude of Muslims in some cultures is like the attitude toward gays or political dissenters in some parts of the US.
By political dissenters do you mean people who don't like President BHO?
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<<The bomber in this case was from a rich family prominent in his nation.
<<What sort of victim is that?>>
Do you think it is only the victims of oppression who hate the oppressors? This young man had no axe to grind, but he saw what was going on and he reacted in anger to the oppressor.
Are you so sunk in selfishness and greed that you cannot even comprehend that others not directly affected by an injustice might nevertheless be so offended by it as to take up the cause of the oppressed?
<<"Opression " of Islam by the US includes allowing total freedom of worship in the Mosques that dot every American city, the US repression of Islam is mythical.>>
That's hilarious. Why don't you take that line and go visit some of the real victims of American oppression, those whose families have been blown to pieces in Afghanistan or Pakistan or Iraq or the West Bank or Gaza or Lebanon or wherever, and tell them how "mythical" their oppression really is. I'm sure they'd see the error of their ways once they realize that mosques "dot every American city" and that anyone is free to worship there.
<<It might be better if Americans treated converts to Islam the way that Converts to Christianity are treated in Saudi Arabia , or Packistan, or would that be repressive?>>
Given the topic under discussion, I think it would be wholly irrelevant. The oppressed Muslims have concerns that are a lot more immediate and personal than how America treats its converts.
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<<It might be better if Americans treated converts to Islam the way that Converts to Christianity are treated in Saudi Arabia , or Packistan, or would that be repressive?>>
Given the topic under discussion, I think it would be wholly irrelevant. The oppressed Muslims have concerns that are a lot more immediate and personal than how America treats its converts.
So is the point accepted that they are not being oppressed because they are Muslims?
That is simply a very popular lie.
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So here's a question.
Remember the guy who flew with explosives in his shoes? Yeah, the Shoe Bomber.
So what's this guy going to be called? Panty Bomber? Boxer Bomber?
;D
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<<So is the point accepted that they are not being oppressed because they are Muslims?
<<That is simply a very popular lie.>>
I don't think I ever suggested that America had a primary objective to oppress Muslims just because they are Muslims. I tried to make it clear that America's oppression of the weak and the poor is profit-driven. They'll oppress anyone who they think they can get away with oppressing, as long as there is something to be gained by it. Oil, for an obvious example. Cheap metals and captive markets for U.S. products for another. America is just as happy to oppress the Christians of Latin America, the Muslims of the Mid-East or the Animists of sub-Saharan Africa, as long as there's a buck in it for them.
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So here's a question.
Remember the guy who flew with explosives in his shoes? Yeah, the Shoe Bomber.
So what's this guy going to be called? Panty Bomber? Boxer Bomber?
;D
I don't know but by the looks of his underwear these people need to get some counseling in personal hygiene. I guess these terrorists determine when to wash by throwing their underwear against the wall and if it sticks it's ripe and ready for a good washing.
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So what's this guy going to be called?
I've heard a bunch, but my favorites so far are "Crotch Bomber" and "Testicle Terrorist".
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So what's this guy going to be called?
I've heard a bunch, but my favorites so far are "Crotch Bomber" and "Testicle Terrorist".
Hilarious!
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So here's a question.
Remember the guy who flew with explosives in his shoes? Yeah, the Shoe Bomber.
So what's this guy going to be called? Panty Bomber? Boxer Bomber?
;D
I don't know but by the looks of his underwear these people need to get some counseling in personal hygiene. I guess these terrorists determine when to wash by throwing their underwear against the wall and if it sticks it's ripe and ready for a good washing.
Ugh! I haven't seen the pictures... and I'm quite sure I don't want to!
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So here's a question.
Remember the guy who flew with explosives in his shoes? Yeah, the Shoe Bomber.
So what's this guy going to be called? Panty Bomber? Boxer Bomber?
;D
I don't know but by the looks of his underwear these people need to get some counseling in personal hygiene. I guess these terrorists determine when to wash by throwing their underwear against the wall and if it sticks it's ripe and ready for a good washing.
Ugh! I haven't seen the pictures... and I'm quite sure I don't want to!
hold your breath
http://gizmodo.com/5435862/the-exploding-terrorist-underwear-that-nearly-took-down-a-plane (http://gizmodo.com/5435862/the-exploding-terrorist-underwear-that-nearly-took-down-a-plane)