Sept 11, 2001

[Xavier_Onassis]

That makes no sense. Clinton was not being impeached because of terrorist attacks.

[sirs]

Who said anything about being impeached over terrorist attacks??       You're talking about 2 completely different things.  I'm referring to your body count #, as some rationale to condemn Condi, because 911 occurred under her watch.  Per your parameters, that makes Bill's incompetence so much the greater since under his watch, the lives that would be lost were superior to anything Condi, when you account for the Oklahoma bombing + the failure to take out Bin Laden and the subsequent 911 attack that wasn't prevented.

See, I can play that game too

[Christians4LessGvt]

Bill's incompetence so much the greater since under his watch,
the failure to take out Bin Laden and the subsequent 911 attack that wasn't prevented.

Bin Laden Lived To Fight Another Day--Thanks To Bill Clinton

In his stunning 2003 book Dereliction of Duty, Air Force Lt. Col. Robert "Buzz" Patterson, a presidential aide and carrier of the "nuclear football", describes President Clinton's gross irresponsibility toward national security. Patterson tells how, in the fall of 1998, the watch officer in the White House Situation Room notified the president's national security adviser, Sandy Berger, that they had located bin Laden and had "a two-hour window to strike."

Here is Patterson's chilling account:

Berger ambled down the stairwell and entered the Situation Room. He picked up the phone at one of the busy controller consoles and called the president. Amazingly, President Clinton was not available. Berger tried again and again. Bin Laden was within striking distance. The window of opportunity was closing fast. The plan of attack was set and the Tomahawk [missile] crews were ready. For about an hour Berger couldn't get the commander in chief on the line. Though the president was always accompanied by military aides and the Secret Service, he was somehow unavailable. Berger stalked the Sit Room, anxious and impatient.

Patterson continues:

Finally, the president accepted Berger's call. There was discussion, there were pauses, and no decision. The president wanted to talk with his secretaries of Defense and State. He wanted to study the issue further. Berger was forced to wait. The clock was ticking. The president eventually called back. He was still indecisive. He wanted more discussion. Berger alternated between phone calls and watching the clock.

The dithering continued until it was too late and bin Laden lived to fight another day. And to plot the Sept. 11 attacks.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/henrymiller/2011/05/05/bin-laden-lived-to-fight-another-day-thanks-to-bill-clinton/

[Xavier_Onassis]

Forbes magazine detests all Democrats.

The fact that Clinton might have made an error does not give Condi Rice a pass.

[sirs]

The fact that Condi might have made an error does not give Bill Clinton a pass, either

[sirs]

You know what's interesting.....the Professor is tripping all over himself trying to literally blame Condi for 911, yet the basis of the condemnation is nothing more than "it happened under her watch"  I've asked this before....what did she do wrong?  What memo did she miss?  What request did she ignore?  What Intel briefing that said 911 was imminent, did she just put down on her desk, and cover it with a paper weight?

With Bill we KNOW what he didn't do, as it relates to having the ability to have taken out Bin Laden, before 911 could even be planned.  With Hilary, we KNOW about the copius requests pleading for added security in Benghazi that went ignored.  We have direct evidence highlighting the Clintons' incompotence.  What exactly does the left have to try and hang Condi with?  Please tell me its more than "well...it happened under watch", because if that's it.....well, that's subjectively really lame, not to mention transparently partisan

[Plane]

  It isn't Clinton, Bush , or even Rice that deserves the finger of opprobrium.


    Osama Bin Laden , and his crew were determined to do whatever it took to get the US to attack them in Afghanistan.

      If the 9-11 plan had not worked , they would have tried again .


       There is no question of President Obama being a war hawk or a war monger , nor President Bush , they were not being given a better choice than war , still not.

[Xavier_Onassis]

I do not think that Bin Laden's main motive was to provoke the US into Afghanistan. His main motive seems to me to have been punish the US for having violated the Koran by stationing its troops in Dharein and elsewhere in Saudi Arabia. Many if the military apparently brought copies of the New Testament in Arabic and proselytized.  That is a clear violation of the Koran's statement that there must be only Muslims in the Kingdom. Also, he wanted to show the world that he was a serious activist and not a stodgy old wimp like the traditional Arabic leaders.                                                                                                                                                 

[sirs]

The difference between what you think vs what is could possibly cover the Atlantic.  Not only is that pure speculation, it's tangential to the current issue.  Bottom line line is that you have no clue what Bin Laden's motivation or intentions were.  You weren't his psychologist, his priest, his cleric, his confidant, his best friend from high school, or even a casual acquaintance.   Bottom line is whatever his motivation, we knew far in advance of 911, he was a terrorist leader we wanted to take out.  Clinton was given the keys to just that, but instead......well history has demonstrated just how horrid a mistake that turned out to be.  And per the Professor's parameters, the height of incompetence.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Bin Laden made a whole bunch of tapes in which is explained his motives that you apparently paid no attention to.
At no point did he say "I did it because I hate your freedoms." or "I did it because I wanted to have you chase me in Afghanistan".He did not do it because he wanted to take your beloved guns away from you, or establish late term abortion clinics.

He recruited people by telling them that Islam had been violated. There is no reasaon to believe that this was not his main motive.

[Plane]

Bin Laden made a whole bunch of tapes in which is explained his motives that you apparently paid no attention to.
At no point did he say "I did it because I hate your freedoms." or "I did it because I wanted to have you chase me in Afghanistan".He did not do it because he wanted to take your beloved guns away from you, or establish late term abortion clinics.

He recruited people by telling them that Islam had been violated. There is no reasaon to believe that this was not his main motive.

  He explained more than this, he had big plans for the future.

[Plane]

The difference between what you think vs what is could possibly cover the Atlantic.  Not only is that pure speculation, it's tangential to the current issue.  Bottom line line is that you have no clue what Bin Laden's motivation or intentions were.  You weren't his psychologist, his priest, his cleric, his confidant, his best friend from high school, or even a casual acquaintance.   Bottom line is whatever his motivation, we knew far in advance of 911, he was a terrorist leader we wanted to take out.  Clinton was given the keys to just that, but instead......well history has demonstrated just how horrid a mistake that turned out to be.  And per the Professor's parameters, the height of incompetence.

     I haven't got certainty , but I do have clues.

      Osama Bin Laden prepared for the fight he wanted , he had stocked up hiding places all over Afghanistan. Afghanistan being a good choice for being remote to the US, rugged and inhospitable

    He sent men on suicide missions to irritate the USA. Bombing military and civilians in the Kobar towers  ,The USS Cole and in the Kenyan and Tanzanian US embassies. Airliners were attacked and the World Trade center of course.

      Immediately before the attacks of 9-11 the main leader of the opposition to the Taliban was assassinated by Al Queda suicide bombers who were pretending to be media interviewers.  This was probably part of a deal and a plan to fight an insurgency with Talib help. I expect that Al Queda members that were able to convincingly imitate journalists were a valuable asset to be spent this way.

      These and other clues make it seem that Osama Bin Laden had a long term plan and had laid preparations , hidden supplies and made alliances for the purpose of a long term insurgency.

   “When people see a strong horse and a weak horse, by nature, they will like the strong horse”   Osama bin Laden 2001

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Strong_Horse

      In 2001 Osama Bin Laden thought his plans were coming together.
      After a few years of quagmire type war , he would declare victory and return to his home as a Hero who could not be denied a role of leadership, because he would have proven his strength.

      What he really wanted was a righteous Arabia, but just expelling all the Americans would not have been enough, he wanted more righteous leadership. I don't think he would have minded being Caliph himself either.

[Xavier_Onassis]

That is exactly correct. Bin Laden made no secret of his motives.

The press covered Al Qaeda and its motives very poorly. They were presented as something akin Lex Luthor or the Green Goblin.

 

[sirs]

I'm glad you believe this terrorist 100%.  Because of course he' isn't going to try and propagandize or manipulate anyone to his cause.  Naaaaaaaaa

[Xavier_Onassis]

The fact that he is a terrorist does not make him a liar. What motives would he have to lie about his motives?  Most of his many speeches were directed at Arabic speaking Muslims, not the US media.

Do you also think Hitler secretly loved Jews and  did not actually believe in the unification of Germanic peoples?

A person can be both despicable and  sincere in his expressed beliefs.

Or do you think he attacked the US because he "hated your freedoms"?

You do not appear to be capable of rational thought, sirs. I did not say I liked Bin Laden, only that he had a very different worldview and expressed it quite adequately.